Rumor: Hawks looking to get Jeff Green

[chambers]

from Hawks forums....

"Green's '15 salary is a PO so there's no telling if he'd take the $$ in hand or shoot for a long term deal, but there is some value in dropping it. 1st, we have to realize that Green is, at best, a neutral effect on the court. He can play some D at the 3, but his O drops off precipitously - vice versa at the 4. The PER difference is negative at both positions. His on/off court net is slightly negative as well... Which means that he's about on par with Gerald Wallace and Brandon Bass. Once we weigh these numbers I simply can't see any argument that he's worth the $9+M he'll be paid next year and the PO the next season. Hence, what this means is that I'd expect Green to use his PO as leverage - either he takes the PO and clogs up another $9+M or he'll take more years for what becomes another bad contract. Ainge knows this and would prefer to clear this problem up earlier rather than later.

For our part, Ferry is always trolling for a deal and Green @ $9+M screams salary dump. Don't know exactly what our angle here would be - depends on how much salary relief we give. To completely erase him, we want our 1st back; drop his y3 salary, then Lou + Cunningham would be acceptable."

Some Hawk fan perspective.

[RRNoLookPass]

I hope green goes. Dont care if its for carroll and an expiring contract

You don't just dump off Jeff Green for Demarre Carroll and an expiring. That's absurd. Why would any GM get rid of their starting SF (who also happens to be the team's leading scorer and one of their best wing defenders) for a lesser player & an expiring contract? Reading that post made me not even want to continue through the rest of the thread.

At the very least, Green is worth a solid first round pick in addition to an expiring...If the idea is to free up some cap space, rather than to acquire an equal player in return. But jeez, the Jeff Green hate by some people around here is just getting silly. Glad to see some other posters seemed to acknowledge that as well.

[chambers]

I'm actually inclined to think Ainge would take back Lou Williams to keep ATL happy about giving up a pick or Schroeder.

Something like:

Green+
2nd round pick (76ers)+
2016 2nd round pick
+Phil Pressey.

for

Lou Williams+
Elton Brand+
Schroeder or 2014 first round pick.

Hawks fans want Williams gone.
They also need a better SF than Carroll and Green is good value at 9 million. The comparisons of Carroll to Green are laughable as overall players and Ferry would know this. Green takes pressure off Millsap and expires just a season later.
Danny loves taking guys like Williams back in trades and turning them into assets. Williams at $5 million should be relatively easy to move like Courtney Lee or Jordan Crawford and he'll be an expiring next year.

Essentially sending them Jeff Green and 2 second rounders for Schroder or a mid first rounder.
We take back Williams who's still a decent trade asset and they take Green's salary off our hands when we are trying to lose as many games as possible.

We get the PERFECT trainee for Rondo, locked up for multiple years in Schroeder. We get a great trade asset in Lou Williams (who's expiring next season), and we get Brand's expiring $4 million coming off the books.
We lose Green's 9 million and find a replacement in the draft.

Just gonna be hard convincing ATL fans to give up Schroeder or the first round pick- that's why the two 2nd rounders are a must.

[ManUp]

Pretty much confirms my belief that Ainge doesn't see Green as a part of the future of this team. Ainge knows Jeff isn't good enough to be the third guy on a contender. Green was a calculated risk that didn't pan out. My guess is that Danny was hoping Green would develop once he left OKC, like Harden the guy Danny was rumored to really want.

[twistedrico14]

Atlanta doesn't have to enough to give us for Jeff Green, no way Danny does this.

[BballTim]

from Hawks forums....

"Green's '15 salary is a PO so there's no telling if he'd take the $$ in hand or shoot for a long term deal, but there is some value in dropping it. 1st, we have to realize that Green is, at best, a neutral effect on the court. He can play some D at the 3, but his O drops off precipitously - vice versa at the 4. The PER difference is negative at both positions. His on/off court net is slightly negative as well... Which means that he's about on par with Gerald Wallace and Brandon Bass. Once we weigh these numbers I simply can't see any argument that he's worth the $9+M he'll be paid next year and the PO the next season. Hence, what this means is that I'd expect Green to use his PO as leverage - either he takes the PO and clogs up another $9+M or he'll take more years for what becomes another bad contract. Ainge knows this and would prefer to clear this problem up earlier rather than later.

For our part, Ferry is always trolling for a deal and Green @ $9+M screams salary dump. Don't know exactly what our angle here would be - depends on how much salary relief we give. To completely erase him, we want our 1st back; drop his y3 salary, then Lou + Cunningham would be acceptable."

Some Hawk fan perspective.

  That's more like an 82games perspective.

[BballTim]

I'm actually inclined to think Ainge would take back Lou Williams to keep ATL happy about giving up a pick or Schroeder.

Something like:

Green+
2nd round pick (76ers)+
2016 2nd round pick
+Phil Pressey.

for

Lou Williams+
Elton Brand+
Schroeder or 2014 first round pick.

Hawks fans want Williams gone.
They also need a better SF than Carroll and Green is good value at 9 million. The comparisons of Carroll to Green are laughable as overall players and Ferry would know this. Green takes pressure off Millsap and expires just a season later.
Danny loves taking guys like Williams back in trades and turning them into assets. Williams at $5 million should be relatively easy to move like Courtney Lee or Jordan Crawford and he'll be an expiring next year.

Essentially sending them Jeff Green and 2 second rounders for Schroder or a mid first rounder.
We take back Williams who's still a decent trade asset and they take Green's salary off our hands when we are trying to lose as many games as possible.

We get the PERFECT trainee for Rondo, locked up for multiple years in Schroeder. We get a great trade asset in Lou Williams (who's expiring next season), and we get Brand's expiring $4 million coming off the books.
We lose Green's 9 million and find a replacement in the draft.

Just gonna be hard convincing ATL fans to give up Schroeder or the first round pick- that's why the two 2nd rounders are a must.

  I don't think those deals really make the Celts a better basketball team. Also, he's not going to structure his trade offer to appease some Hawks fans, even if they are an endangered species.

[cometboy]

While I do like Schroeder, he's not one of the 2 mising pieces we need right now: conistent wing scorer to replace Green, and a sold, 2-way center. I hope Danny doesn't trade Green for anything less than one of these 2 needs. Of course, this trade may move us up the tank-o-meter.

CB

[LilRip]

While I do like Schroeder, he's not one of the 2 mising pieces we need right now: conistent wing scorer to replace Green, and a sold, 2-way center. I hope Danny doesn't trade Green for anything less than one of these 2 needs. Of course, this trade may move us up the tank-o-meter.

CB

I think in this scenario, Jeff Green would only be a secondary piece or a throw in, rather than the centerpiece of that deal.

[PhoSita]

from Hawks forums....

"Green's '15 salary is a PO so there's no telling if he'd take the $$ in hand or shoot for a long term deal, but there is some value in dropping it. 1st, we have to realize that Green is, at best, a neutral effect on the court. He can play some D at the 3, but his O drops off precipitously - vice versa at the 4. The PER difference is negative at both positions. His on/off court net is slightly negative as well... Which means that he's about on par with Gerald Wallace and Brandon Bass. Once we weigh these numbers I simply can't see any argument that he's worth the $9+M he'll be paid next year and the PO the next season. Hence, what this means is that I'd expect Green to use his PO as leverage - either he takes the PO and clogs up another $9+M or he'll take more years for what becomes another bad contract. Ainge knows this and would prefer to clear this problem up earlier rather than later.

For our part, Ferry is always trolling for a deal and Green @ $9+M screams salary dump. Don't know exactly what our angle here would be - depends on how much salary relief we give. To completely erase him, we want our 1st back; drop his y3 salary, then Lou + Cunningham would be acceptable."

Some Hawk fan perspective.

Wow, so they think the trade should include a 1st round pick coming from US.

Yup.  This really tells you a lot about how Green is viewed around the league.  Which is to say that the smart fans who pay attention to analytics are not impressed by his game one bit and don't want him on their team.

[henr1k]

I am not sure why Hawks have interest in Green to be honest. They have a smart front office and analytics are not very kind on Green. Jeff is not much of an upgrade over Carroll, especially when you consider he is making only 2.5M per year.

Carroll 31MPG 10.4PPG .473 FG% .368 3P% 5.6Reb 14.17PER
Green   33MPG 16.3PPG .418 FG% .367 3P%   5.0Reb 13.94PER


Reading some of the comments, especially first couple of pages, I think a lot of people will be really disappointed with the return from Jeff Green trade.

Schroeder + 1st round pick + expiring is never gonna happen.

I was always in the 'believe' camp when it comes to Green. But at 27, he is who he is, 3rd or 4th banana on a good team. When you look at his shooting %, rebounding and even PER - it all screams AVERAGE. Only thing above average is his contract - 9M per year. There are guys making 3-6M that are producing similar or better stats in the NBA.

I am not sure Green can fetch you more than a mid to late 1st rounder - and that would be a good deal if we don't have to take any additional salary.

[chambers]

I'm actually inclined to think Ainge would take back Lou Williams to keep ATL happy about giving up a pick or Schroeder.

Something like:

Green+
2nd round pick (76ers)+
2016 2nd round pick
+Phil Pressey.

for

Lou Williams+
Elton Brand+
Schroeder or 2014 first round pick.

Hawks fans want Williams gone.
They also need a better SF than Carroll and Green is good value at 9 million. The comparisons of Carroll to Green are laughable as overall players and Ferry would know this. Green takes pressure off Millsap and expires just a season later.
Danny loves taking guys like Williams back in trades and turning them into assets. Williams at $5 million should be relatively easy to move like Courtney Lee or Jordan Crawford and he'll be an expiring next year.

Essentially sending them Jeff Green and 2 second rounders for Schroder or a mid first rounder.
We take back Williams who's still a decent trade asset and they take Green's salary off our hands when we are trying to lose as many games as possible.

We get the PERFECT trainee for Rondo, locked up for multiple years in Schroeder. We get a great trade asset in Lou Williams (who's expiring next season), and we get Brand's expiring $4 million coming off the books.
We lose Green's 9 million and find a replacement in the draft.

Just gonna be hard convincing ATL fans to give up Schroeder or the first round pick- that's why the two 2nd rounders are a must.

  I don't think those deals really make the Celts a better basketball team. Also, he's not going to structure his trade offer to appease some Hawks fans, even if they are an endangered species.

I'm not sure why making us a better team has got anything to do with this scenario. Were Pierce and KG being traded away meant to make us a better team Tim? Or was there a bigger long term picture in play?

They're not really meant to make us a better team (for now).
Aim is to get back a young asset in Schroeder or a pick and get rid of a mediocre player who's costing us valuable draft positioning with his average play and taking up cap space in 2015-16 when we'll be trying to re-sign Rondo and presumably some other big names.

Hopefully the Hawks think adding Green makes them a better team and some 2nd rounders make up for giving away a young asset for some playoff hope now.

They appear to be trying to make the playoffs. We appear to be trying to avoid them.

[saltlover]

I'm actually inclined to think Ainge would take back Lou Williams to keep ATL happy about giving up a pick or Schroeder.

Something like:

Green+
2nd round pick (76ers)+
2016 2nd round pick
+Phil Pressey.

for

Lou Williams+
Elton Brand+
Schroeder or 2014 first round pick.

Hawks fans want Williams gone.
They also need a better SF than Carroll and Green is good value at 9 million. The comparisons of Carroll to Green are laughable as overall players and Ferry would know this. Green takes pressure off Millsap and expires just a season later.
Danny loves taking guys like Williams back in trades and turning them into assets. Williams at $5 million should be relatively easy to move like Courtney Lee or Jordan Crawford and he'll be an expiring next year.

Essentially sending them Jeff Green and 2 second rounders for Schroder or a mid first rounder.
We take back Williams who's still a decent trade asset and they take Green's salary off our hands when we are trying to lose as many games as possible.

We get the PERFECT trainee for Rondo, locked up for multiple years in Schroeder. We get a great trade asset in Lou Williams (who's expiring next season), and we get Brand's expiring $4 million coming off the books.
We lose Green's 9 million and find a replacement in the draft.

Just gonna be hard convincing ATL fans to give up Schroeder or the first round pick- that's why the two 2nd rounders are a must.

Considering we don't have Philly's second rounder in 2016 (at least not until after they miss the playoffs next year, which would be too late for a trade this year), or our own 2016 second rounder, this trade doesn't work so well.  Also it puts us over the luxury tax if Schroder comes back, and only saves the C's $3-4 million next year with a clear downgrade in talent.  That is not something Ainge can accept.

Hawks fans may want Williams gone, but they're not making the trades, any more than C's fans who want Wallace or Green gone.

[chambers]

I'm actually inclined to think Ainge would take back Lou Williams to keep ATL happy about giving up a pick or Schroeder.

Something like:

Green+
2nd round pick (76ers)+
2016 2nd round pick
+Phil Pressey.

for

Lou Williams+
Elton Brand+
Schroeder or 2014 first round pick.

Hawks fans want Williams gone.
They also need a better SF than Carroll and Green is good value at 9 million. The comparisons of Carroll to Green are laughable as overall players and Ferry would know this. Green takes pressure off Millsap and expires just a season later.
Danny loves taking guys like Williams back in trades and turning them into assets. Williams at $5 million should be relatively easy to move like Courtney Lee or Jordan Crawford and he'll be an expiring next year.

Essentially sending them Jeff Green and 2 second rounders for Schroder or a mid first rounder.
We take back Williams who's still a decent trade asset and they take Green's salary off our hands when we are trying to lose as many games as possible.

We get the PERFECT trainee for Rondo, locked up for multiple years in Schroeder. We get a great trade asset in Lou Williams (who's expiring next season), and we get Brand's expiring $4 million coming off the books.
We lose Green's 9 million and find a replacement in the draft.

Just gonna be hard convincing ATL fans to give up Schroeder or the first round pick- that's why the two 2nd rounders are a must.

Considering we don't have Philly's second rounder in 2016 (at least not until after they miss the playoffs next year, which would be too late for a trade this year), or our own 2016 second rounder, this trade doesn't work so well.  Also it puts us over the luxury tax if Schroder comes back, and only saves the C's $3-4 million next year with a clear downgrade in talent.  That is not something Ainge can accept.

Hawks fans may want Williams gone, but they're not making the trades, any more than C's fans who want Wallace or Green gone.

What trade based around Jeff Green as the centerpiece do you think doesn't bring back a downgrade in talent? That's the point of getting Schroeder or the pick. Again, why did Danny trade Pierce and KG? Do we agree there was a downgrade in talent for a longer term goal?

Yes, we save $3 or $4 million next year but we also move Green's deal now and only have Williams back for one season on an expiring contract. Green's 1000% picking up his player option, and if we do draft a small forward and get lucky enough to pick Wiggins or Parker then his value with plummet even further. Wouldn't it be nice to have Jeff Green pick up his 9 million dollar player option in 2015/16 just as we're trying to bring in some real help for Rondo? Ferry knows this is what Danny wants to this is about as good as it's going to get. Even getting back Schroeder or a first rounder is probably wishful thinking.

The point being we 'develop young assets' ahead of going for the playoffs aka tank mode.
You can put the 2nd rounders in any available year- they're exchangeable. I'm pretty sure Courtney Lee's trade exception covers Schroeder coming in for Pressey and picks and avoid the luxury tax, still leaves us about $2 million clear.
I completely disagree that Danny 'cannot accept'...

*moving Green's deal early and cutting 4 million of the payroll, and getting a decent expiring contract in L Williams.
*getting back a first round pick or a high potential rookie for two second round picks.
*ensuring he gets as much chance at picking in the top 3 in the next draft as possible.

Ainge doesn't want mediocrity and unfortunately that's what Green is the catalyst for on this team. Too good to let us lose to the bottom 5 teams but too mediocre to take us anywhere past a late lottery selection.

A trade like this isn't about sacrificing the results of the team this season or an immediate downgrade in talent. It's about putting this franchise in the best possible outlook for 2015 and beyond. Moving on past the Jeff Green failure and getting a potential building block for the future is something we should be happy with and is definitely something Danny won't have a hard time executing.

[PaulAllen]

Ainge isnt going to give him away to drop his salary...

my guess would have to involve Brand ,Schrader, and a protected 1st...