Ainge: Fans expectations of Jeff Green are not right

[BballTim]

Ainge has a misunderstanding of fans expectations.  I don't think anyone expects Green to score 25-30 every night, but there certainly should be an expectation of more consistency within his numbers.  He shouldn't have numbers that look like this:

39
16
8
14
18
8
36

That is too much of a yo-yo.  That is the issue.  Now granted his shot attempts are certainly more consistent, but his foul shot attempts are not (which is indicative of his lack of aggression a lot). 

Fans are frustrated by Green because he is frustratingly inconsistent.  Some games he looks like Lebron James and sometimes he looks like he doesn't belong in the league.  I'd be much happier with something in the middle.

  The problem with Green is that some people claim he's inconsistent, everybody else claims he's inconsistent and when they watch him play they're looking for him to be inconsistent. They then see it.

  What they don't see is that if you look at non-star players on other things you'll be looking at, in general, inconsistent players. "Consistent" nba players have the ball in their hands a lot with the understanding that they're the first option on their team and they'll get a lot of shots every night. Most of their teammates don't have such consistent roles in the offense, hence their scoring is inconsistent.

I don't disagree with you at all, I was merely commenting on Ainge's point.  I mean Luol Deng (though he was a lot more consistent in chicago), Evan Turner, Jeff Green, etc. are all pretty much the same type of player with the same type of consistency.  They are on bad teams though.  Deng was much more consistent on Chicago then he has been in Cleveland.  Green, even when he was on the 50 win team, was still very inconsistent from game to game.  You look at a guy like Wesley Matthews (#3 in Portland) and he is pretty darn consistent.  7 games under 10, 6 games at 24 or more (and none higher than 28), with everything else in between.  That is what you would want from a Green level scorer.

  Again, though, it's all expectations influenced by others. In 2012 Deng had 9 games under 10, 23 games 10-19 and 20 games of 20+. This year Green's at 9 games under 10, 30 games 10-19 and 11 20+ games. Matthews is at 7 games under 10, 28 games 10-19 and 14 games 20+.

 If you look at those numbers for for those three players you could easily claim that Green was the most consistent, yet you're claiming that he's very inconsistent while Matthews and Deng(when he was on Chicago) are/were very consistent. You can claim that Green has slightly more of the occasional high scoring games than they do but you're just splitting hairs.

[LooseCannon]

I would like someone else to do some number crunching to analyze how consistent Jeff Green is, compared to other SFs.  Specifically, I would like to see someone calculate the standard deviation for points scored in games this season, comparing Green to other wings in a similar PPG range.  Perhaps Gordon Hayward, Luol Deng, Chandler Parsons, Josh Smith, Evan Turner, Eric Gordon, Bradley Beal, JJ Reddick, and Joe Johnson would be an acceptable group to compare with Green.

[indeedproceed]

So it's wrong to expect consistency from Green, essentially.

I mean, after two, two and a half years we should know this, but it doesn't make it any less frustrating. Especially because he seems like he could do that whenever he doesn't hit the snooze button.

Can anyone really take Celtics fans seriously when they talk about consistency?

I mean this has been Rondos celticsblog trademark for 7 years.

Everyone has their own tailored opinion of consistency and when the numbers dont back them up, or when they dont compare them to other similar plaers around the league they resort to them either not giving effort (rondo) or being passive (green)

Comparing Green to consistent guys like the first ballot hall of famers that were on this team is just wrong

That's a repackaged and inaccurately summarized version of the criticisms about Jeff Green (and Rondo's) consistency, which makes it easier to dismiss, but isn't an honest portrayal of the criticism.

[indeedproceed]

Here's some statistical comparison:

StDev   Player
5.369509536   Batum
5.609612741   Ibaka
6.075118987   Parsons
7.227844889   Deng
7.235938363   Hayward
7.237800352   Thad Young
7.60783699   Jeff Green

Jeff Green is the most inconsistent.

[gpap]

I think Ainge is full of crap.

To me at 9 million, you should be getting consistency.

The midlevel exception is what....5.3 mil?

And Green (who in my mind is a mid-level) player is getting 9 million, and fans expectations are too lofty?

If fans shouldn't have high expectations for Green, then why is he on the Celts?

Sorry, but I am not buying what Danny is trying to sell this time, unless you know, he gives me 9 million dollars a year.

[Fafnir]

Here's some statistical comparison:

StDev   Player
5.369509536   Batum
5.609612741   Ibaka
6.075118987   Parsons
7.227844889   Deng
7.235938363   Hayward
7.237800352   Thad Young
7.60783699   Jeff Green

Jeff Green is the most inconsistent.

Std Dev of PPG?

[fairweatherfan]

Here's some statistical comparison:

StDev   Player
5.369509536   Batum
5.609612741   Ibaka
6.075118987   Parsons
7.227844889   Deng
7.235938363   Hayward
7.237800352   Thad Young
7.60783699   Jeff Green

Jeff Green is the most inconsistent.

This is PPG?  I'd be interested to see it broken down to a rate, like per-minute or something similar, or it can be confounded by coaches who vary their guys' minutes.  But this is decent evidence.

[BleedGreen1989]

Here's some statistical comparison:

StDev   Player
5.369509536   Batum
5.609612741   Ibaka
6.075118987   Parsons
7.227844889   Deng
7.235938363   Hayward
7.237800352   Thad Young
7.60783699   Jeff Green

Jeff Green is the most inconsistent.

I would also take everybody on that list over Jeff Green anyways.

[winsomme]

Ainge was on his weekly segment on the Toucher and Rich Show and had this to say...

“Other than the LeBrons, Kevin Durants and Paul Georges of the world you really don’t get consistently 25, 30+ points a night,” said Ainge. “Most players don’t ever score 36 points in a game, and Jeff’s had two in the past two weeks. I think that’s just how Jeff is. He’s a very good player and not a superstar player where we expect him to do that.”

“I think the expectations of him are not right."

“$9 million a year expectations I think that’s what Celtics fans have,” Rich chimed in.

“Well $9 million is half of a maximum contract. Jeff is giving us 16, 17 points a game on a very efficient overall year he’s having. I think that’s what people should expect.”

This is one of those quotes where Ainge just can't help himself. Like even if it is true that we as fans shouldn't expect an all star player out of Jeff Green, why would you say that publicly? I mean, what does that do Green's trade value? You certainly can't present him to other GMs as a player who is on the verge of being a building block if you criticize fans for expecting that of him...

[BballTim]

So it's wrong to expect consistency from Green, essentially.

I mean, after two, two and a half years we should know this, but it doesn't make it any less frustrating. Especially because he seems like he could do that whenever he doesn't hit the snooze button.

Can anyone really take Celtics fans seriously when they talk about consistency?

I mean this has been Rondos celticsblog trademark for 7 years.

Everyone has their own tailored opinion of consistency and when the numbers dont back them up, or when they dont compare them to other similar plaers around the league they resort to them either not giving effort (rondo) or being passive (green)

Comparing Green to consistent guys like the first ballot hall of famers that were on this team is just wrong

That's a repackaged and inaccurately summarized version of the criticisms about Jeff Green (and Rondo's) consistency, which makes it easier to dismiss, but isn't an honest portrayal of the criticism.

  It's pretty accurate. If someone told you that a player led everyone who played his position in rebounds a game, made the all-defense team, was an all-star and was 3rd team all-nba then one of the last things that would enter your mind was "he doesn't try very hard".

[RJ87]

Ainge was on his weekly segment on the Toucher and Rich Show and had this to say...

“Other than the LeBrons, Kevin Durants and Paul Georges of the world you really don’t get consistently 25, 30+ points a night,” said Ainge. “Most players don’t ever score 36 points in a game, and Jeff’s had two in the past two weeks. I think that’s just how Jeff is. He’s a very good player and not a superstar player where we expect him to do that.”

“I think the expectations of him are not right."

“$9 million a year expectations I think that’s what Celtics fans have,” Rich chimed in.

“Well $9 million is half of a maximum contract. Jeff is giving us 16, 17 points a game on a very efficient overall year he’s having. I think that’s what people should expect.”

This is one of those quotes where Ainge just can't help himself. Like even if it is true that we as fans shouldn't expect an all star player out of Jeff Green, why would you say that publicly? I mean, what does that do Green's trade value? You certainly can't present him to other GMs as a player who is on the verge of being a building block if you criticize fans for expecting that of him...

It doesn't say anything to Jeff's trade value. Jeff is in his 6th year in the league - GM's know what he is. The fans are the only ones holding onto any hope that he suddenly transforms into an All-Star. So I think this quote from Ainge is right on.

[BballTim]

Here's some statistical comparison:

StDev   Player
5.369509536   Batum
5.609612741   Ibaka
6.075118987   Parsons
7.227844889   Deng
7.235938363   Hayward
7.237800352   Thad Young
7.60783699   Jeff Green

Jeff Green is the most inconsistent.

  Small forwards who are closest to Green in ppg are Ariza, Josh Smith, PP, Nick Young, Evan Turner and Chandler Parsons. I'd guess there' more inconsistency in that group.

[LooseCannon]

Ainge was on his weekly segment on the Toucher and Rich Show and had this to say...

“Other than the LeBrons, Kevin Durants and Paul Georges of the world you really don’t get consistently 25, 30+ points a night,” said Ainge. “Most players don’t ever score 36 points in a game, and Jeff’s had two in the past two weeks. I think that’s just how Jeff is. He’s a very good player and not a superstar player where we expect him to do that.”

“I think the expectations of him are not right."

“$9 million a year expectations I think that’s what Celtics fans have,” Rich chimed in.

“Well $9 million is half of a maximum contract. Jeff is giving us 16, 17 points a game on a very efficient overall year he’s having. I think that’s what people should expect.”

This is one of those quotes where Ainge just can't help himself. Like even if it is true that we as fans shouldn't expect an all star player out of Jeff Green, why would you say that publicly? I mean, what does that do Green's trade value? You certainly can't present him to other GMs as a player who is on the verge of being a building block if you criticize fans for expecting that of him...

Maybe Ainge isn't planning on trading Green or maybe he is shopping Green to playoff teams as someone who can be a complementary player that can be fitted around established stars.

[mmmmm]

Bonus Reason: Some fans delusionally think we would have won a title in 2011 but for trading Perkins, despite the fact that Perkins had not much in the tank that year and not much since, despite the fact that OKC has made one finals and won zero titles since Perk has been on that team with Durant and Westbrook and Ibaka, and despite the fact that Wade ripped off Rondo's arm in the playoffs.  And they blame Jeff a little bit for this.

I don't know if we would have won a title, but our record with Perkins on the team was pretty darn good. Weren't we the top team in the East heading into the All-Star break that year? And Perk only played in a handful of games during the season up to that point.

I know Marquis Daniels suffered his season-ending injury just a couple weeks prior to the trade deadline. I wonder if Danny would have pulled the trigger on the Perkins/Green deal had Daniels not suffered his injury...or at least wait until the offseason? I guess he just wanted a serviceable backup to Pierce at that point.

Our record in the 20 games before the Perkins trade and the 20 games after the trade were virtually identical.

The Daniels injury was definitely part of the reason for the trade.  The fact that we had not a single healthy NBA center was probably the main reason.   Every single one of:  Shaq, Jermaine, Semih & Perkins were injured at the time of the trade.  The trade was as much about getting Krstic so that we would have a healthy 7 footer down the stretch as it was about getting Jeff Green.

[Donoghus]

Ainge was on his weekly segment on the Toucher and Rich Show and had this to say...

“Other than the LeBrons, Kevin Durants and Paul Georges of the world you really don’t get consistently 25, 30+ points a night,” said Ainge. “Most players don’t ever score 36 points in a game, and Jeff’s had two in the past two weeks. I think that’s just how Jeff is. He’s a very good player and not a superstar player where we expect him to do that.”

“I think the expectations of him are not right."

“$9 million a year expectations I think that’s what Celtics fans have,” Rich chimed in.

“Well $9 million is half of a maximum contract. Jeff is giving us 16, 17 points a game on a very efficient overall year he’s having. I think that’s what people should expect.”

This is one of those quotes where Ainge just can't help himself. Like even if it is true that we as fans shouldn't expect an all star player out of Jeff Green, why would you say that publicly? I mean, what does that do Green's trade value? You certainly can't present him to other GMs as a player who is on the verge of being a building block if you criticize fans for expecting that of him...

Maybe Ainge isn't planning on trading Green or maybe he is shopping Green to playoff teams as someone who can be a complementary player that can be fitted around established stars.

Which is a role I think he'd really excel at and he'd certainly have tempered expectations elsewhere if he's asking to be third banana.

The situation in Boston right now isn't really conducive to people jumping on the Green bandwagon.

If it was Lebron/Rondo/Green, people would be singing a different tune right now, IMO.