What's the grace period on Rondo?

[LarBrd33]

To answer your question about when you can start judging Rondo--- well, you clearly already have, so why bother? According to a post of yours in another thread about Rondo not meshing with Green, you said something to the extent of Rondo being crap so far, and his trade value is already plummeting. So you're clearly already judging

Exactly.

I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is, he pretty much has his mind made up about Rondo based on previous posts. And the condescension in the original post makes me doubt a thoughtful discussion about orthopedic rehabilitation and the process Rondo has to go through before he fully regains form is the intention here.

TP to RR for calling a spade a spade, and to RJ87 for highlighting it.

LB33 starts so many threads, and hijacks so many others, with his incessant disparaging of Rondo that I wonder if he isn't some desperate Knicks employee trying to drive Rondo's value down, hoping that he could then be shipped to NY for Stoudamire and Tim Hardaway Jr.

Loving the double standards and mass excuses.  Some thought ROndo was coming back and going to look like a superstar.  He's been awful so far.  Bottom line... he's been terrible.  But it's only been 5 games.  I merely want to know how long we need to wait until we can fairly judge him.  Seems the new consensus is that we can throw out this season and wait until next year until evaluating Rondo.  Nice.  A couple homers on this forum expected him to be dominating by November 2013.  Looks like we're pushing it back a year. 

[LarBrd33]

So far he's been horrible.  We've played just as bad with him.  I know he's rusty and coming off a major injury.  It's still way too early and all of this was very predictable, but for reference I want to know how long we are supposed to give him until we can fairly judge him as the leader of this team.   

Some members of this forum remain adamant that Rondo is a "superstar".    So far he's averaging 6.6 points, 5.8 assists, 4.2 rebounds, 1 steal 3.2 turnovers on a laughably pathetic  25%/24%/40% shooting.   Obviously he will improve, but how long should we expect until he's superstarring?

[quote/]author: labrd33

Here we go again...

I like you as a user, but sometimes you really just try to kick Rondo down a notch... I don't get why you hate him so much.. He is coming off an ACL injury... Do you really want the Knicks to get him, or what?

Did Rondo by any chance score on one of your favorite player, and make you lose a bet on the off-chance Rondo wouldn't have a triple double on a certain game?

In under 30 minutes, Rondo almost scored a triple double. 13/8/8 isn't good enough?

I don't hate Rondo. I love Rondo.  I do feel like he is vastly overrated by a select few members on this forum though. 

The fact that you think Rondo's 13/8/8 last night was "good enough" illustrates this point wonderfully.  He shot 35% and had 6 turnovers in a loss.  It was a bad game.   

I don't expect the bad games to continue... I don't care that he's been horrible through 5 games. I just wanted to get an idea of how long we should expect to see dreadful performances out of Rondo.  Looks like the apologists are already willing to give Rondo a pass on this season.   

He's my favorite player on the team... but it's been an endless debate on this forum whether or not you can build a team around the likes of Rondo.  I definitely am on the side who thinks you need 1 or 2 players better than Rondo to compete.  I think he's a fine player... a borderline all-star.  SOme are adamant he's a notch below LeBron.  Some are adamant that he can lead a team of scrubs to the playoffs.  It's not happening right now.  Is that rust?  His injury?  Do we just need to give him more time?  Or was th idea of Rondo being on the same level of CHris Paul, LeBron, Durant always just absurd?  This season was finally supposed to end the debate. Rondo no longer has hall-of-fame teammates and a coach tailoring a system for his skills and weaknesses.  I was told this was the season Rondo was going to prove the "haters" wrong, leap into superstardom and lead a team of mediocre players to glory.  I guess now that's postponed until next season?... At some point this notion of Rondo as a superstar will be thrown through the mythbusters.  Right now he's in a grace period.  HOw long are we waiting until we bust the myth?

[chambers]

Rondo might not be healthy enough to evaluate properly until next season.

I'd agree with this.
He's going to need the rest of the season. I just hope he shows enough recovery to at least get some teams to put good offers on the table for him ie Sacramento/Charlotte/Utah etc just to see what he's worth- just to find out what Danny would actually turn down if anything.

I just don't want him to rush back because he's worthless if he re-injures the leg before the off season.

I'd say he'll need a good 2-3 months like I've always said.
If we can get a decent 15-20 games out of him with 16 ppg, 12 assists, 7 rebounds then that's all we need for other teams to evaluate trade value properly for draft night.
I just want EVERY opportunity for the Celtics available on draft night and a healthy Rondo with signs of the old Rondo and returning athleticism.

Yeah, I'd say 2-3 months and if his shooting shows better signs earlier on then I'd be stoked.
Just keep watching his explosion off the dribble and his lateral movement on defense.

[LooseCannon]

At some point this notion of Rondo as a superstar will be thrown through the mythbusters.  Right now he's in a grace period.  HOw long are we waiting until we bust the myth?

When he is on his next contract as a Celtic.

[AidaCelt]

So far he's been horrible.  We've played just as bad with him.  I know he's rusty and coming off a major injury.  It's still way too early and all of this was very predictable, but for reference I want to know how long we are supposed to give him until we can fairly judge him as the leader of this team.   

Some members of this forum remain adamant that Rondo is a "superstar".    So far he's averaging 6.6 points, 5.8 assists, 4.2 rebounds, 1 steal 3.2 turnovers on a laughably pathetic  25%/24%/40% shooting.   Obviously he will improve, but how long should we expect until he's superstarring?

[quote/]author: labrd33

Here we go again...

I like you as a user, but sometimes you really just try to kick Rondo down a notch... I don't get why you hate him so much.. He is coming off an ACL injury... Do you really want the Knicks to get him, or what?

Did Rondo by any chance score on one of your favorite player, and make you lose a bet on the off-chance Rondo wouldn't have a triple double on a certain game?

In under 30 minutes, Rondo almost scored a triple double. 13/8/8 isn't good enough?

I don't hate Rondo. I love Rondo.  I do feel like he is vastly overrated by a select few members on this forum though. 

The fact that you think Rondo's 13/8/8 last night was "good enough" illustrates this point wonderfully.  He shot 35% and had 6 turnovers in a loss.  It was a bad game.   

I don't expect the bad games to continue... I don't care that he's been horrible through 5 games. I just wanted to get an idea of how long we should expect to see dreadful performances out of Rondo.  Looks like the apologists are already willing to give Rondo a pass on this season.   

He's my favorite player on the team... but it's been an endless debate on this forum whether or not you can build a team around the likes of Rondo.  I definitely am on the side who thinks you need 1 or 2 players better than Rondo to compete.  I think he's a fine player... a borderline all-star.  SOme are adamant he's a notch below LeBron.  Some are adamant that he can lead a team of scrubs to the playoffs.  It's not happening right now.  Is that rust?  His injury?  Do we just need to give him more time?  Or was th idea of Rondo being on the same level of CHris Paul, LeBron, Durant always just absurd?  This season was finally supposed to end the debate. Rondo no longer has hall-of-fame teammates and a coach tailoring a system for his skills and weaknesses.  I was told this was the season Rondo was going to prove the "haters" wrong, leap into superstardom and lead a team of mediocre players to glory.  I guess now that's postponed until next season?... At some point this notion of Rondo as a superstar will be thrown through the mythbusters.  Right now he's in a grace period.  HOw long are we waiting until we bust the myth?

You don't need to have 2 better players than Rondo to build a championship team. You do need at least 2 players at a similar or higher level and have the flexibility and smarts to fill the rest of the roster around those 3 - complementing their skills by surrounding them with players that hide their weaknesses.
Eg. a good wing that shoots from range and a big that can protect the rim and run the floor as your other star players with a rebounding big and a slashing wing.
Rondo can't be the main guy when it comes to scoring, that much is known.
Rondo is the type of player that can set up an offense, make the pass, run the floor, defend the outside...
Because of the type of player he is (quickness, speed, athletic ability for a PG) - he needs time to get some of that lateral quickness, first step quickness back. It won't come immediately, and who knows, he may never get that explosiveness back. I'm willing to give him until at least through November next season though. He will know himself by around September whether he'll ever get it back based on a solid pre-season of strength and conditioning.

[PhoSita]

At some point this notion of Rondo as a superstar will be thrown through the mythbusters.  Right now he's in a grace period.  HOw long are we waiting until we bust the myth?

When he is on his next contract as a Celtic.

There's a can here somewhere and a strong willingness to continue kicking it on down the road, apparently.

[BballTim]

I said in another thread last week that I don't expect him to be 100% at all this season and that my grace period is sometime during the 2014-2015 season.

I'm not gonna set a drop dead date but I'd say a third to a halfway through next season mark.

That kind of time frame strikes me as symptomatic of giving up this season for lost, more than any kind of real thought on athletic recovery.

Why's that?  He experienced an ACL injury just about a year ago.  He plays basketball which is a game that takes a ridiculous toll on your lower body, especially from the PG position and just the nature of how he plays the game.

He just started playing meaningful game-speed NBA basketball in the past couple of weeks.  Given what I've seen from athletes over the years in basketball as well as other sports, I don't think 52 weeks is enough time for a full recovery.  Physically and certainly not mentally.  Even when the physical aspect is complete (which it may never be) there are still mental hurdles that take much longer to overcome.  Especially from an ACL injury and you play a sport like basketball which involves cutting and jumping all the time.  I really think 18-24 months is a better timeframe. 18 months would have him back to normal by the start of next season while 24 months would have him near the middle of next season.  Pretty much on point where I said a third to halfway into next season.

So, despite what you think, my thought and time frame is actually is very focused on athletic recovery.

It's not really about what I think, but more about how your original post read. That's all.

I think that he'll be playing at 95% of the level he'll be playing at a year and a half from now around the All Star Break. And I think that people are inclined to give him a wide window because they don't want to consider the fact that he's never going to be the player he was before the injury.

  The all-star break's a little over a year from the original injury, and just over a month from his return to action. Claiming that his play at that point in time means that he'll never be the same player isn't very realistic.

That's not really what I said, though. I don't know what kind of player he'll be, or if he'll reach/exceed/fail to achieve the kind of play that he was capable of before the injury.

My supposition is that the Rondo we get around February is going to be much closer to the Rondo we'll get for the rest of his career than some people would like to think.

  You basically said "that's not what I said" and then said it again. The all-star game is barely a year after the original injury and a month from his return to the court (with no training camp/preseason). Claiming he's likely to be very close to his fully recovered post-injury level at that point in time isn't at all realistic.

[BballTim]

To answer your question about when you can start judging Rondo--- well, you clearly already have, so why bother? According to a post of yours in another thread about Rondo not meshing with Green, you said something to the extent of Rondo being crap so far, and his trade value is already plummeting. So you're clearly already judging

Exactly.

I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is, he pretty much has his mind made up about Rondo based on previous posts. And the condescension in the original post makes me doubt a thoughtful discussion about orthopedic rehabilitation and the process Rondo has to go through before he fully regains form is the intention here.

TP to RR for calling a spade a spade, and to RJ87 for highlighting it.

LB33 starts so many threads, and hijacks so many others, with his incessant disparaging of Rondo that I wonder if he isn't some desperate Knicks employee trying to drive Rondo's value down, hoping that he could then be shipped to NY for Stoudamire and Tim Hardaway Jr.

Loving the double standards and mass excuses.  Some thought ROndo was coming back and going to look like a superstar.  He's been awful so far.  Bottom line... he's been terrible.  But it's only been 5 games.  I merely want to know how long we need to wait until we can fairly judge him.  Seems the new consensus is that we can throw out this season and wait until next year until evaluating Rondo.  Nice.  A couple homers on this forum expected him to be dominating by November 2013.  Looks like we're pushing it back a year.

  You were claiming it was a possible career-ending injury.  Those predictions don't look any more far-fetched than yours do.

[PhoSita]

To answer your question about when you can start judging Rondo--- well, you clearly already have, so why bother? According to a post of yours in another thread about Rondo not meshing with Green, you said something to the extent of Rondo being crap so far, and his trade value is already plummeting. So you're clearly already judging

Exactly.

I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is, he pretty much has his mind made up about Rondo based on previous posts. And the condescension in the original post makes me doubt a thoughtful discussion about orthopedic rehabilitation and the process Rondo has to go through before he fully regains form is the intention here.

TP to RR for calling a spade a spade, and to RJ87 for highlighting it.

LB33 starts so many threads, and hijacks so many others, with his incessant disparaging of Rondo that I wonder if he isn't some desperate Knicks employee trying to drive Rondo's value down, hoping that he could then be shipped to NY for Stoudamire and Tim Hardaway Jr.

Loving the double standards and mass excuses.  Some thought ROndo was coming back and going to look like a superstar.  He's been awful so far.  Bottom line... he's been terrible.  But it's only been 5 games.  I merely want to know how long we need to wait until we can fairly judge him.  Seems the new consensus is that we can throw out this season and wait until next year until evaluating Rondo.  Nice.  A couple homers on this forum expected him to be dominating by November 2013.  Looks like we're pushing it back a year.

  You were claiming it was a possible career-ending injury.  Those predictions don't look any more far-fetched than yours do.

What do you suppose is more likely, that LarBrd33 actually believes we should all be making doomsday proclamations about Rondo 5 games into his return, or that he knows he can gets TONS of attention by suggesting as much?

[BleedGreen1989]

"MORTALLLL KOMBATTTTTT!"

Fight to the death!

If you believe Rondo is a superstar, get on this side.

If you believe Rondo is mediocre, get on this side.

Now here are your rusty forks.

Play a game of bloody "Red Rover" until somebody is crowned a king.

[BballTim]

To answer your question about when you can start judging Rondo--- well, you clearly already have, so why bother? According to a post of yours in another thread about Rondo not meshing with Green, you said something to the extent of Rondo being crap so far, and his trade value is already plummeting. So you're clearly already judging

Exactly.

I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is, he pretty much has his mind made up about Rondo based on previous posts. And the condescension in the original post makes me doubt a thoughtful discussion about orthopedic rehabilitation and the process Rondo has to go through before he fully regains form is the intention here.

TP to RR for calling a spade a spade, and to RJ87 for highlighting it.

LB33 starts so many threads, and hijacks so many others, with his incessant disparaging of Rondo that I wonder if he isn't some desperate Knicks employee trying to drive Rondo's value down, hoping that he could then be shipped to NY for Stoudamire and Tim Hardaway Jr.

Loving the double standards and mass excuses.  Some thought ROndo was coming back and going to look like a superstar.  He's been awful so far.  Bottom line... he's been terrible.  But it's only been 5 games.  I merely want to know how long we need to wait until we can fairly judge him.  Seems the new consensus is that we can throw out this season and wait until next year until evaluating Rondo.  Nice.  A couple homers on this forum expected him to be dominating by November 2013.  Looks like we're pushing it back a year.

  You were claiming it was a possible career-ending injury.  Those predictions don't look any more far-fetched than yours do.

What do you suppose is more likely, that LarBrd33 actually believes we should all be making doomsday proclamations about Rondo 5 games into his return, or that he knows he can gets TONS of attention by suggesting as much?

  Sometimes I have a hard time telling. I generally like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but in his case I'm not sure whether that means thinking he means everything he says or that he doesn't.

[Celtics4ever]

Bottom line... he's been terrible

I agree but he is coming off an injury.  Do you think he was terrible before?   He is or was an all star how many times?

[BballTim]

I definitely am on the side who thinks you need 1 or 2 players better than Rondo to compete.  I think he's a fine player... a borderline all-star.

  I think the word you're looking for is perennial, not borderline. But just out of curiosity, without referencing Rondo at all, how would you define the term "borderline all-star"? Maybe you just think that term means something different than I do. Especially since you refer to "potential all-stars" in the draft (potential all-star would range from somewhat below borderline all-star to better) as "franchise cornerstones".

[Eja117]

So far he's been horrible.  We've played just as bad with him.  I know he's rusty and coming off a major injury.  It's still way too early and all of this was very predictable, but for reference I want to know how long we are supposed to give him until we can fairly judge him as the leader of this team.   

Some members of this forum remain adamant that Rondo is a "superstar".    So far he's averaging 6.6 points, 5.8 assists, 4.2 rebounds, 1 steal 3.2 turnovers on a laughably pathetic  25%/24%/40% shooting.   Obviously he will improve, but how long should we expect until he's superstarring?

5 or 6 weeks. Mark that down. 

[tyrone biggums]

So far he's been horrible.  We've played just as bad with him.  I know he's rusty and coming off a major injury.  It's still way too early and all of this was very predictable, but for reference I want to know how long we are supposed to give him until we can fairly judge him as the leader of this team.   

Some members of this forum remain adamant that Rondo is a "superstar".    So far he's averaging 6.6 points, 5.8 assists, 4.2 rebounds, 1 steal 3.2 turnovers on a laughably pathetic  25%/24%/40% shooting.   Obviously he will improve, but how long should we expect until he's superstarring?

[quote/]author: labrd33

Here we go again...

I like you as a user, but sometimes you really just try to kick Rondo down a notch... I don't get why you hate him so much.. He is coming off an ACL injury... Do you really want the Knicks to get him, or what?

Did Rondo by any chance score on one of your favorite player, and make you lose a bet on the off-chance Rondo wouldn't have a triple double on a certain game?

In under 30 minutes, Rondo almost scored a triple double. 13/8/8 isn't good enough?

I don't hate Rondo. I love Rondo.  I do feel like he is vastly overrated by a select few members on this forum though. 

The fact that you think Rondo's 13/8/8 last night was "good enough" illustrates this point wonderfully.  He shot 35% and had 6 turnovers in a loss.  It was a bad game.   

I don't expect the bad games to continue... I don't care that he's been horrible through 5 games. I just wanted to get an idea of how long we should expect to see dreadful performances out of Rondo.  Looks like the apologists are already willing to give Rondo a pass on this season.   

He's my favorite player on the team... but it's been an endless debate on this forum whether or not you can build a team around the likes of Rondo.  I definitely am on the side who thinks you need 1 or 2 players better than Rondo to compete.  I think he's a fine player... a borderline all-star.  SOme are adamant he's a notch below LeBron.  Some are adamant that he can lead a team of scrubs to the playoffs.  It's not happening right now.  Is that rust?  His injury?  Do we just need to give him more time?  Or was th idea of Rondo being on the same level of CHris Paul, LeBron, Durant always just absurd?  This season was finally supposed to end the debate. Rondo no longer has hall-of-fame teammates and a coach tailoring a system for his skills and weaknesses.  I was told this was the season Rondo was going to prove the "haters" wrong, leap into superstardom and lead a team of mediocre players to glory.  I guess now that's postponed until next season?... At some point this notion of Rondo as a superstar will be thrown through the mythbusters.  Right now he's in a grace period.  HOw long are we waiting until we bust the myth?

I actually feel Rondo is extremely underrated by Celtics fans. He has been called a diva and in this town that will destroy your good will. I honestly feel people yearn for Phil Pressey to take over the point full time. Pressey is everything Boston fans overrate and love. A guy who works his way into the rotation, an underdog, and unheralded. Once Rondo started receiving media attention a small part of the fan base I feel turned on him. He's an excellent point guard and I'll be thrilled when he leaves for nothing in 2015. Then maybe people will learn not to try and push out star players.