Bradley Potentially > Ray Allen

[CFAN38]

Avery Bradley is only 23 years old. We know what kind of defensive player he is, but as Max and Mike Gorman says, he is developing a shooters mentality.  I keep thinking of who will be the next Ray Allen, and every  game I say it is AB.  AB has the potential to be better than Allen.

Not even close to Ray, Avery's ceiling is Joe Dumars with less PG skills. Not bad but not near Ray

[manl_lui]

Avery Bradley is only 23 years old. We know what kind of defensive player he is, but as Max and Mike Gorman says, he is developing a shooters mentality.  I keep thinking of who will be the next Ray Allen, and every  game I say it is AB.  AB has the potential to be better than Allen.

Not even close to Ray, Avery's ceiling is Joe Dumars with less PG skills. Not bad but not near Ray

Ray Allen is a 10x all-star, 2x NBA champion, and current 3 pt record holder.

Let's see Bradley achieve half of those first, then we will debate whether or not he will be better.

Also, what were Ray Allen's achievements by 23 years old? I believe at 23, Ray Allen achieved a lot more than Bradley did.

[D.o.s.]

Avery Bradley is only 23 years old. We know what kind of defensive player he is, but as Max and Mike Gorman says, he is developing a shooters mentality.  I keep thinking of who will be the next Ray Allen, and every  game I say it is AB.  AB has the potential to be better than Allen.

Not even close to Ray, Avery's ceiling is Joe Dumars with less PG skills. Not bad but not near Ray

Ray Allen is a 10x all-star, 2x NBA champion, and current 3 pt record holder.

Let's see Bradley achieve half of those first, then we will debate whether or not he will be better.

Also, what were Ray Allen's achievements by 23 years old? I believe at 23, Ray Allen achieved a lot more than Bradley did.

Not 23 years old, but to their 4th season in the NBA:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=bradlav01&y1=2014&p2=allenra02&y2=2000


Here's the comp for when they were both 23:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=bradlav01&y1=2014&p2=allenra02&y2=1999

For accolades:
Allen had an All-rookie 2nd team,
Bradley had an All-defense 2nd team.

[kozlodoev]

Also, what were Ray Allen's achievements by 23 years old? I believe at 23, Ray Allen achieved a lot more than Bradley did.

At the end of his age 23 season, Ray Allen had started 200+ NBA starts (and played in every single game of his team), averaging 16/4/3 or something like that in the process.

As a 23-year-old, he was the second best player on a team that went 28-22 in a shortened season. Not exactly chopped liver, I guess.

[manl_lui]

Also, what were Ray Allen's achievements by 23 years old? I believe at 23, Ray Allen achieved a lot more than Bradley did.

At the end of his age 23 season, Ray Allen had started 200+ NBA starts (and played in every single game of his team), averaging 16/4/3 or something like that in the process.

As a 23-year-old, he was the second best player on a team that went 28-22 in a shortened season. Not exactly chopped liver, I guess.

so bottom line is Ray Allen at 23 is a better player than Bradley was at age 23. Or 4th season vs 4th season. I won't ask for much, if Bradley can produce 15 ppg as a 3rd or 4th option, I'll be happy. And with Rondo coming back and setting everyone up, that is very possible

[kozlodoev]

Also, what were Ray Allen's achievements by 23 years old? I believe at 23, Ray Allen achieved a lot more than Bradley did.

At the end of his age 23 season, Ray Allen had started 200+ NBA starts (and played in every single game of his team), averaging 16/4/3 or something like that in the process.

As a 23-year-old, he was the second best player on a team that went 28-22 in a shortened season. Not exactly chopped liver, I guess.

so bottom line is Ray Allen at 23 is a better player than Bradley was at age 23. Or 4th season vs 4th season. I won't ask for much, if Bradley can produce 15 ppg as a 3rd or 4th option, I'll be happy. And with Rondo coming back and setting everyone up, that is very possible

The bottom line is he's not going to produce that many points as a 3rd or 4th option because, as demonstrated, he needs to put up a ton of shots to get his points. Based on his NBA career so far, he will need to put up 14+ shots per game to get those 15 points -- that's more shots than anyone on the Boston Celtics roster took in 2007-2008, for example.

[D.o.s.]

If Bradley's our 4th option, who are our first three?

[LEHGOCELTICS]

Sarah Palin will become the first lady of North Korea before this happens.

[RRNoLookPass]

Or perhaps the majority of Bradley's shots are jumpshots because that is one of the strongest attributes of his game. Who cares if he takes the majority of his shots from 16ft and out, when his long-2 FG% is above average from almost every spot on the floor, with the exception of one zone. Take another look his shot chart.

Being simply "above average" with the worst shot in the game while having absolutely no other move doesn't quite cut it as efficiency in my book. If that's what his game is going to be like, he's not in good shape.

Have you ever looked at a shotchart? There is only 3 color-coded categories that label a player's shot performance in each zone. --Above league average is green, comparable to league average is yellow, and below league average is red. So clearly, the green / "above average" category is used to label even the Best shot performances. A player could hit 95% of his shots from a certain zone on the court, and it would still just be labeled as "above average" on the shot chart. So you're reading too much into the "above average" label. And if you take a moment to understand the shotchart, you will see that Bradley is actually Well above average with his shot efficiency from a lot of the long-2 zones.

[RRNoLookPass]

The bottom line is he's not going to produce that many points as a 3rd or 4th option because, as demonstrated, he needs to put up a ton of shots to get his points. Based on his NBA career so far, he will need to put up 14+ shots per game to get those 15 points -- that's more shots than anyone on the Boston Celtics roster took in 2007-2008, for example.

Bradley being a 4th option is kind of a joke anyways. Like D.o.s said, if Bradley is the 4th option, who are our first 3 options?

And putting up 14 shots per game to average 14.8pts at a .441 FG% is really not a negative factor. Especially when he had an even better FG% before his shooting slump in the month of January.

Besides, somebody on the team has to shoot, so it might as well be Bradley. His offense is steadily improving, and his jumpshot is more solid than almost everyone else's on the team. This isn't 2007-2008, when we had 3 perennial all-stars all sharing the ball as our top 3 offensive weapons. Nobody needed to take 14 shots per game that yr. There was plenty of top notch shooters to share the ball with, even the bench players like House & Posey.

I wouldn't mind Green leading the team in shots this yr either, but he just doesn't seem interested in doing so. He passes up a lot of good shots, and isn't always aggressive enough...Even though he usually has great games when he is aggressive, like in Orlando the other night.

[kozlodoev]

And putting up 14 shots per game to average 14.8pts at a .441 FG% is really not a negative factor. Especially when he had an even better FG% before his shooting slump in the month of January.

Not only is it a negative factor, it's also pretty much a guarantee that he's not really a viable scoring option on a team that has any sort of ambitions.

Oh yeah, and by the way -- in his last 2 full seasons with the Celtics, a 35-year-old Ray Allen was scoring 16 points on 12 shots.

[sofutomygaha]

I feel like the OP didn't watch Ray Allen much in his prime. If the real premise is that Bradley in his prime could be a better all-around player than Allen was in his mid-thirties... well... maybe.

[guava_wrench]

There is little reason to consider the original premise of this thread. Ray Allen is an all time great.

[GreenEnvy]

I feel like the OP didn't watch Ray Allen much in his prime. If the real premise is that Bradley in his prime could be a better all-around player than Allen was in his mid-thirties... well... maybe.

I'd even doubt that. Ray at 35 was probably better than AB will ever be.

[biggs]

More like AB> Jordan!