celts-jazz trade idea

[Tr1boy]

To jazz- sullinger, bradley, right to swap 2015 1st
To celts- gobert, hayward

Gives us a legit center (upside) and hayward who stevens would like to have. Hate giving up sully but there is no way around it. Our future front court lacks any kind of rim protecting capabilities.

[pokeKingCurtis]

HELL NO

If Ainge wanted Gobert, he would have drafted Gobert.

[Tr1boy]

HELL NO

If Ainge wanted Gobert, he would have drafted Gobert.

Gobert reminds me a little of davis, without the offensive skills. The guy has unbelievable reach and suprising agility . He is skinny but willing to play physical is there.  Our rim protection issues would be solved . Decent rebounder and should get better

[pokeKingCurtis]

Gobert might not even be able to stay on the floor.

On the other hand Sully just came off a 20/20 game.

Gobert is maybe a little more than a throw in in this trade at this point. He could turn out to be a rich man's Ryan Hollins. The potential to turn out to be Javale McGee isn't worth giving up Sully for, either, at all.

I'm not trading Sully for Hayward. Picks and Bradley should get it done if Hayward were to be had.

[RRNoLookPass]

I really do not understand why so many people are obsessed with Gordon Hayward. I understand that he played for Stevens for 2yrs in college, but that does not necessarily mean he will perform any better on the Celtics than he is right now in Utah. And his numbers this year in Utah are certainly nothing to be enamored with. He is a solid player, but I wouldn't even trade Bradley alone for him, let alone Bradley + 1st Rnd pick, or Green + 1st Rnd pick, or some of the other severe overpayment packages people have been suggesting.

Player Comparison (2013-2014 season)

Hayward Per 36:

FG% .415  3P% .317  FT% 82.9  REB: 5.4  AST: 4.9  STL: 1.3  BLK: 0.7  TOV: 2.6  PF: 2.1  PTS: 17.0

Bradley Per 36:

FG% .441  3P% .365  FT% 73.3  REB: 4.8  AST: 1.6  STL: 1.2  BLK: 0.3  TOV: 1.9  PF: 3.1 PTS: 16.9

Efficiency: Bradley has the clear edge here, with a better FG% and 3p%. Hayward is more efficient at the FT line, but that is about it.

Rebounding: They are both good rebounders for SGs, but Hayward is a slightly better rebounder.

Assists: Hayward has the clear edge here. He is a much better passer than Bradley, dishing out about 3x the amount of assists Per36 that Bradley does.

Steals: Basically equal.

Blocks: Hayward is a slightly better shot-blocker than Bradley.

Turnovers: Hayward turns over the ball more than Bradley does, but that is also probably a result of him passing and handling the ball far more than Bradley does.

Fouls: Hayward is not as foul prone as Bradley is. Avery averages 1 PF per 36 more than Gordon does, but this is also probably a result of him playing far more aggressive defense, applying full court pressure, etc.

Scoring: Basically equal.

For the record, I am not always a big fan of per36 comparisons, because if the players being compared are not both playing starter minutes, than it can lead to a very misleading comparison. However, Hayward is averaging 36.1mpg, while Bradley is averaging 31.5mpg, so it makes for a very fair per36 comparison.

With that being said, my conclusion is that there is no reason Hayward should be worth Bradley plus a 1st round pick. I personally would not even trade Bradley straight up for Hayward. For one, Hayward will probably command a bigger contract than Bradley will on the FA market. (Well, depending on who you ask, but that seems to be the general consensus around here). Although even at equal money, I would rather have Bradley. It is not worth sacrificing Bradley's elite defense for a player who is a very similar scorer ppg wise, but is less efficient, and nowhere near as good of a defender as Bradley. The only thing Hayward does significantly better than Bradley is passing/ball-handling, which is not really worth the defensive compromise in my opinion. We already have an elite ball handler named Rondo, whom also happens to be the best passer in the game.

[Tr1boy]

I really do not understand why so many people are obsessed with Gordon Hayward. I understand that he played for Stevens for 2yrs in college, but that does not necessarily mean he will perform any better on the Celtics than he is right now in Utah. And his numbers this year in Utah are certainly nothing to be enamored with. He is a solid player, but I wouldn't even trade Bradley alone for him, let alone Bradley + 1st Rnd pick, or Green + 1st Rnd pick, or some of the other severe overpayment packages people have been suggesting.

Player Comparison (2013-2014 season)

Hayward Per 36:

FG% .415  3P% .317  FT% 82.9  REB: 5.4  AST: 4.9  STL: 1.3  BLK: 0.7  TOV: 2.6  PF: 2.1  PTS: 17.0

Bradley Per 36:

FG% .441  3P% .365  FT% 73.3  REB: 4.8  AST: 1.6  STL: 1.2  BLK: 0.3  TOV: 1.9  PF: 3.1 PTS: 16.9

Efficiency: Bradley has the clear edge here, with a better FG% and 3p%. Hayward is more efficient at the FT line, but that is about it.

Rebounding: They are both good rebounders for SGs, but Hayward is a slightly better rebounder.

Assists: Hayward has the clear edge here. He is a much better passer than Bradley, dishing out about 3x the amount of assists Per36 that Bradley does.

Steals: Basically equal.

Blocks: Hayward is a slightly better shot-blocker than Bradley.

Turnovers: Hayward turns over the ball more than Bradley does, but that is also probably a result of him passing and handling the ball far more than Bradley does.

Fouls: Hayward is not as foul prone as Bradley is. Avery averages 1 PF per 36 more than Gordon does, but this is also probably a result of him playing far more aggressive defense, applying full court pressure, etc.

Scoring: Basically equal.

For the record, I am not always a big fan of per36 comparisons, because if the players being compared are not both playing starter minutes, than it can lead to a very misleading comparison. However, Hayward is averaging 36.1mpg, while Bradley is averaging 31.5mpg, so it makes for a very fair per36 comparison.

With that being said, my conclusion is that there is no reason Hayward should be worth Bradley plus a 1st round pick. I personally would not even trade Bradley straight up for Hayward. For one, Hayward will probably command a bigger contract than Bradley will on the FA market. (Well, depending on who you ask, but that seems to be the general consensus around here). Although even at equal money, I would rather have Bradley. It is not worth sacrificing Bradley's elite defense for a player who is a very similar scorer ppg wise, but is less efficient, and nowhere near as good of a defender as Bradley. The only thing Hayward does significantly better than Bradley is passing/ball-handling, which is not really worth the defensive compromise in my opinion. We already have an elite ball handler named Rondo, whom also happens to be the best passer in the game.

Do you not remember what he did against us almost single handedly? Thats what green nor ab can do. Its what stars in the league can do

Utah main reason for trading him would be he is not going to resign and wants out

[Rtpas11]

This trade needs to happen ASAP.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lhmc5s3

Bos sends: Jeff Green & Brandon Bass

Utah sends: Gordon Hayward & Richard Jefferson

Add Fillers if possible, but these guys need a immediate team swap.

[RRNoLookPass]

Do you not remember what he did against us almost single handedly? Thats what green nor ab can do. Its what stars in the league can do

Utah main reason for trading him would be he is not going to resign and wants out

Given the fact that I watch every Celts game, and tape the games I'm not free to watch, ummm yeah, I do remember what Hayward did against us. He lead Utah in scoring, and dropped what, 26 or 28 pts? And sorry to burst your bubble-- but Both Green & Bradley are perfectly capable of doing that too. I guess you missed Bradley's 28pt game earlier in the season, or his recent string of 20+ pt games. And as for Green, did you even watch lastnight's game against Orlando? 22pts, 13/15 freethrows, and his 8pt fourth quarter was the only thing that kept us in that game. Or maybe Green dropping 43pts on Lebron & Miami last yr slipped your mind too. But like I said, Both Bradley & Green are capable of playing as well, and even better than Hayward did against the C's.

One big game against the Celtics does not mean Hayward plays like that all the time. He averages 17pts per 36 like Bradley & Green, so if he's a "star", then I guess Bradley & Green must be stars too.

And I never said Utah won't trade him or that he doesn't want out, which may or may not be true anyways. I was just emphasizing the fact that it's not worth overpaying for Hayward by giving up more than he is worth in a trade.

[Tr1boy]

Do you not remember what he did against us almost single handedly? Thats what green nor ab can do. Its what stars in the league can do

Utah main reason for trading him would be he is not going to resign and wants out

Given the fact that I watch every Celts game, and tape the games I'm not free to watch, ummm yeah, I do remember what Hayward did against us. He lead Utah in scoring, and dropped what, 26 or 28 pts? And sorry to burst your bubble-- but Both Green & Bradley are perfectly capable of doing that too. I guess you missed Bradley's 28pt game earlier in the season, or his recent string of 20+ pt games. And as for Green, did you even watch lastnight's game against Orlando? 22pts, 13/15 freethrows, and his 8pt fourth quarter was the only thing that kept us in that game. Or maybe Green dropping 43pts on Lebron & Miami last yr slipped your mind too. But like I said, Both Bradley & Green are capable of playing as well, and even better than Hayward did against the C's.

One big game against the Celtics does not mean Hayward plays like that all the time. He averages 17pts per 36 like Bradley & Green, so if he's a "star", then I guess Bradley & Green must be stars too.

And I never said Utah won't trade him or that he doesn't want out, which may or may not be true anyways. I was just emphasizing the fact that it's not worth overpaying for Hayward by giving up more than he is worth in a trade.

Im talking about clutch baskets. check out the game again. He carried utah on his back in the last 5 min. Scored something like 10 and 2 assist on his own. He has done this a numerous times this year. He has closing capabilities

Dont remember green doing that last. Dont remember ab doing that in a very long time

[RRNoLookPass]

Im talking about clutch baskets. check out the game again. He carried utah on his back in the last 5 min. Scored something like 10 and 2 assist on his own. He has done this a numerous times this year. He has closing capabilities

Dont remember green doing that last. Dont remember ab doing that in a very long time

If you don't remember Green doing that lastnight, then I'm not sure you watched the game. Green had 8 points, all in the 4th quarter, and all at the FT line. Not only that, but his 8pts in the 4th were the last 8pts scored by the entire Celtics team. If that's not carrying the team on his back, then I don't know what is.

[slamtheking]

I don't get the fascination with Hayward.  I really don't.  he's a nice player to have.  a more consistent Jeff Green --> doesn't have the highs and lows that Green has. 

Gobert sucks.  he's just big. 

you're proposing to give away the best player in Sully (much better than Hayward) and AB who's light years ahead of Gobert and the only positive is to switch picks based on the assumption that them getting 2 good players and us get 1 redundant one with Green on the team that they'd still have a worse record than us next year after they land a top player in this draft. 

just horrible, horrible, horrible.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

I don't get the fascination with Hayward.  I really don't.  he's a nice player to have.  a more consistent Jeff Green --> doesn't have the highs and lows that Green has. 

Gobert sucks.  he's just big. 

you're proposing to give away the best player in Sully (much better than Hayward) and AB who's light years ahead of Gobert and the only positive is to switch picks based on the assumption that them getting 2 good players and us get 1 redundant one with Green on the team that they'd still have a worse record than us next year after they land a top player in this draft. 

just horrible, horrible, horrible.

agreed

[Galeto]

Why would Utah do this?  They're probably still going to be bad or at least miss the playoffs in 2015.  They're not going to give the Celtics the option to swap picks. 

[RRNoLookPass]

Why would Utah do this?  They're probably still going to be bad or at least miss the playoffs in 2015.  They're not going to give the Celtics the option to swap picks.

Actually, in the trade the OP proposed, It was the Jazz that would be given the option to swap 2015 1st rnd picks, not the Celtics.

And that trade would be a horrid one for the Celtics. Very lopsided in Utah's favor.

But anyways, I kinda doubt the Jazz will still be bad next season. They have some solid young pieces to build upon in the offseason: A massive young front court in Favors & Kanter, along with Jeremy Evans, who is slowly but surely improving in his role as a cheap 3rd rotation big. They also have a young PG with lots of potential in Trey Burke...He got off to a late start this season due to injury, but he has already helped Utah start winning some games since his return. I think I read somewhere a week or two ago that Utah was playing close to .500 ball since Burke's debut-- quite an improvement on their horrible start to the season.

So with a good young PG to develop & a solid young PF/C rotation, in addition to 2picks in the 2014 draft (one pick from Golden State & Utah's own lottery pick), they should definitely be better next yr. Especially since they are going to have a boatload of a cap space from the expiring contracts of Biedrins & Jefferson, which will leave them enough room to sign at least one max level free agent...maybe even two. So unless their GM completely whiffs in the draft & Free Agency, they should be in a great position for next season.

Oh, and they can even use some of their cap space to re-sign the amazing Gordon Hayward that so many people around here are infatuated with 

[RRNoLookPass]

Do you not remember what he did against us almost single handedly? Thats what green nor ab can do. Its what stars in the league can do

Utah main reason for trading him would be he is not going to resign and wants out

Given the fact that I watch every Celts game, and tape the games I'm not free to watch, ummm yeah, I do remember what Hayward did against us. He lead Utah in scoring, and dropped what, 26 or 28 pts? And sorry to burst your bubble-- but Both Green & Bradley are perfectly capable of doing that too. I guess you missed Bradley's 28pt game earlier in the season, or his recent string of 20+ pt games. And as for Green, did you even watch lastnight's game against Orlando? 22pts, 13/15 freethrows, and his 8pt fourth quarter was the only thing that kept us in that game. Or maybe Green dropping 43pts on Lebron & Miami last yr slipped your mind too. But like I said, Both Bradley & Green are capable of playing as well, and even better than Hayward did against the C's.

One big game against the Celtics does not mean Hayward plays like that all the time. He averages 17pts per 36 like Bradley & Green, so if he's a "star", then I guess Bradley & Green must be stars too.

And I never said Utah won't trade him or that he doesn't want out, which may or may not be true anyways. I was just emphasizing the fact that it's not worth overpaying for Hayward by giving up more than he is worth in a trade.

Im talking about clutch baskets. check out the game again. He carried utah on his back in the last 5 min. Scored something like 10 and 2 assist on his own. He has done this a numerous times this year. He has closing capabilities

Dont remember green doing that last. Dont remember ab doing that in a very long time

Too bad Green isn't a member on Celticsblog, cause after his game in Orlando and his game tonight, he would've had some serious thrashing rights on these "can't close / isn't clutch" comments