Time for Ainge to make a deal for Melo

[Galeto]

With Melo we will just become the Timberwolves or Grizzlies. A fringe team with zero chance.

Do. Not. Want.

So Rondo + Melo + Bradley + Sullinger + all those assets = T-Wolves?

Makes sense

In the original post we'd be trading Sullinger and yes we'd be like the T-wolves. Melo is a volume shooter, doesn't play D, and is not a winner. We'd actually probably still be worse than the T-wolves with just melo bradley, and rondo.

#1 - He's not a volume shooter.

#2 - He's never missed the playoffs.

Have the Knicks or Nuggets ever been mentioned as serious contenders to win the title? Hes a good scorer who can't play D. We would never win the title with him and Rondo whose also hoping to cash in for near a max deal soon.

He's basically Paul Pierce before Pierce jumped on KG's back.

Fact.

Pierce was a bigger "volume shooter"/"loser" than Melo is right now at the same point in their careers.  Melo is a more efficient scorer and has had more consistent success.  But asking Melo to carry a team to a title alone is like asking Paul Pierce to carry a team to a title alone.  It's an unreasonable request.  That doesn't make Piece/Melo garbage... they are still guys who can be a key part of a championship team.  You'd need to make additional moves.  Rondo + Melo would be a start... still not enough, though.

You really think Melo was more efficient than Pierce at equivalent stages?  Pierce had down seasons when he was 25 and 26 but otherwise, his superior three point shooting, along with matching Melo's ability to get to the line, made him a much more efficient scorer.  Pierce averaged a lot of shots but he was a very efficient scorer. 

On pure passing ability, I would have to give the edge to Melo.  He really is a very gifted passer but he hasn't shown Pierce's willingness to pass, which is why Pierce has been the far more effective playmaker. 

Defensively, Melo's a very underrated individual defender.  More than underrated, he's actually a plus individual defender.  His lateral quickness is shockingly good; it's as good as Pierce's during his prime and he's also extremely strong in the post and has very quick hands.  But he can falter in the team defense department.  Defensively I would give the edge to Pierce and this includes before KG got here.  The narrative that Pierce never defended before KG got here is wrong.

Pierce wasn't good enough to be the best player on a championship team but I think his better team play, efficiency and overall defense made him a better championship-caliber no.2 than Carmelo.  Carmelo has the scoring chops, especially in his ability to get to the line, to be the top scoring option on a championship team but he lacks the playmaking numbers of one.  I keep thinking that Carmelo's mindset will change but he's almost 30 years old.

[colincb]

With Melo we will just become the Timberwolves or Grizzlies. A fringe team with zero chance.

Do. Not. Want.

So Rondo + Melo + Bradley + Sullinger + all those assets = T-Wolves?

Makes sense

In the original post we'd be trading Sullinger and yes we'd be like the T-wolves. Melo is a volume shooter, doesn't play D, and is not a winner. We'd actually probably still be worse than the T-wolves with just melo bradley, and rondo.

#1 - He's not a volume shooter.

#2 - He's never missed the playoffs.

#1 He's 5th all-time in usage for his career.

#2 - He's averaged less than 7 games for each playoff appearance having been one and done 8 out of 10 years with 7 appearances of 5 games or less. Partly Attributable to his shooting under 42% while having a usage of over 32% of his team's plays.

[Galeto]

Is it really a fact that Pierce jumped on KG's back?  KG was unquestionably the best player on the championship team but I didn't know he rode KG's coattails.  I like Melo a lot, probably more his potential (still) than his overall effectiveness but if you were to swap the two, I don't think the Celtics win it all. 

[guava_wrench]

Trading for Melo is a bad idea. The Knicks don't feel any pressure to move him right now, so we would have to offer a lot. Getting Melo is the opposite of 'Moneyball'. It is acquiring an overvalued asset -- a scorer in the NBA -- at a time when he is paid exorbitantly.

We don't need to be like the Knicks -- giving up too many assets for a guy who is good enough to get you annually eliminated in the first round.

[guava_wrench]

I think the proposed trade may be a bit generous on the Knicks side, but I would certainly be interested in acquiring Carmelo if the situation presented itself. If we are giving up both Green and Sullinger (as well as one first - tops), I would definitely demand that we also take back Chandler. He is really what would make or break this deal.

All those calling for Marc Gasol over Carmelo, I understand where you are coming from, but I would much much much rather have Carmelo and M. Gasol's clone [in Chandler] than just M. Gasol.

How is Chandler Gasol's clone? Chandler is nothing like Gasol on offense. Gasol is a great passer and has moves. Chandler is defense only.

[gpap]

I think going after Melo makes sense because he's a superstar and the NBA is a superstar league.

Another reason is because I think he's too talented a player not to ever win an NBA title in his career.

But I agree that the Celts would definitely need a defensive big man (whether it's Marc Gasol, Chandler or Asik) to go along with Rondo and Melo.

[guava_wrench]

I think going after Melo makes sense because he's a superstar and the NBA is a superstar league.

Another reason is because I think he's too talented a player not to ever win an NBA title in his career.

But I agree that the Celts would definitely need a defensive big man (whether it's Marc Gasol, Chandler or Asik) to go along with Rondo and Melo.

Melo is not too talented to never win. Players waaay better than him have gone ringless. AI never got a ring. Seems like a good model for Melo.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Have not been able to come up with a label for Melo, for years, that I believed was more accurate than "Franchise killer."

[Fafnir]

I think the proposed trade may be a bit generous on the Knicks side, but I would certainly be interested in acquiring Carmelo if the situation presented itself. If we are giving up both Green and Sullinger (as well as one first - tops), I would definitely demand that we also take back Chandler. He is really what would make or break this deal.

All those calling for Marc Gasol over Carmelo, I understand where you are coming from, but I would much much much rather have Carmelo and M. Gasol's clone [in Chandler] than just M. Gasol.

How is Chandler Gasol's clone? Chandler is nothing like Gasol on offense. Gasol is a great passer and has moves. Chandler is defense only.

Naw Chandler at his peak was the best roll man in the NBA. That's a hugely important and tough NBA skill.

Now that title goes to Anthony Davis I think, maybe Howard since he's regained his form these past few months.

[LarBrd33]

Yes, they were kind of the same.  Well, except for Pierce being a better shooter, a better passer, and a better defender.

Through age 29

Paul Pierce:  37.8 minutes  23.6 points, 3.9 assists, 6.5 rebounds, 1.7 steals, 44%/36%/79%

Carmelo Anthony:  36.4 minutes - 25.1 points, 3.1 assists, 6.5 rebounds, 1.1 steal 46%/34%/81%

I mean we're basically talking about dopplegangers here.

Per 36 minutes:

Pierce - 22.5 points, 6.2 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 1.6 steals, 44%/36%/79%

Melo - 24.8 points, 6.4 rebounds, 3 assists, 1.1 steals, 45%/34%/81%


Playoff games:

Melo - 66
Pierce - 37

Win/Loss Record:

Melo - 428-294 = .592
Pierce - 321-385 = .454


Resume:

Pierce - 5x All-star, 2x All-NBA 2nd team, 0x All-Defense
Melo - 6x All-star, 2x All-NBA 2nd team, 4x All-NBA 3rd team, NCAA Champion, 2 Olympic Gold Medals, 0x All-Defense

Shenanigans:

Pierce - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbwm2tolAHo
Melo - ?


I'd say it's a fair comparison.  All the "Melo is a cancer" stuff sounds ridiculous coming from Celtic fans.  They said all the same stuff about Pierce, but there was a valid argument that Pierce was a loser.  Melo has a track record of success.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Yes, they were kind of the same.  Well, except for Pierce being a better shooter, a better passer, and a better defender.

Through age 29

Paul Pierce:  37.8 minutes  23.6 points, 3.9 assists, 6.5 rebounds, 1.7 steals, 44%/36%/79%

Carmelo Anthony:  36.4 minutes - 25.1 points, 3.1 assists, 6.5 rebounds, 1.1 steal 46%/34%/81%

I mean we're basically talking about dopplegangers here.

Per 36 minutes:

Pierce - 22.5 points, 6.2 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 1.6 steals, 44%/36%/79%

Melo - 24.8 points, 6.4 rebounds, 3 assists, 1.1 steals, 45%/34%/81%


Playoff games:

Melo - 66
Pierce - 37

Win/Loss Record:

Melo - 428-294 = .592
Pierce - 321-385 = .454


Resume:

Pierce - 5x All-star, 2x All-NBA 2nd team, 0x All-Defense
Melo - 6x All-star, 2x All-NBA 2nd team, 4x All-NBA 3rd team, NCAA Champion, 2 Olympic Gold Medals, 0x All-Defense

Bad press:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbwm2tolAHo



I'd say it's a fair comparison.  All the "Melo is a cancer" stuff sounds ridiculous coming from Celtic fans.  They said all the same stuff about Pierce, but there was a valid argument that Pierce was a loser.  Melo has a track record of success.

Where is the statistic for personality? Paul was willing to take a back-seat, which is why he won a 'chip. Will Melo be?

[LarBrd33]

Yes, they were kind of the same.  Well, except for Pierce being a better shooter, a better passer, and a better defender.

Through age 29

Paul Pierce:  37.8 minutes  23.6 points, 3.9 assists, 6.5 rebounds, 1.7 steals, 44%/36%/79%

Carmelo Anthony:  36.4 minutes - 25.1 points, 3.1 assists, 6.5 rebounds, 1.1 steal 46%/34%/81%

I mean we're basically talking about dopplegangers here.

Per 36 minutes:

Pierce - 22.5 points, 6.2 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 1.6 steals, 44%/36%/79%

Melo - 24.8 points, 6.4 rebounds, 3 assists, 1.1 steals, 45%/34%/81%


Playoff games:

Melo - 66
Pierce - 37

Win/Loss Record:

Melo - 428-294 = .592
Pierce - 321-385 = .454


Resume:

Pierce - 5x All-star, 2x All-NBA 2nd team, 0x All-Defense
Melo - 6x All-star, 2x All-NBA 2nd team, 4x All-NBA 3rd team, NCAA Champion, 2 Olympic Gold Medals, 0x All-Defense

Bad press:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbwm2tolAHo



I'd say it's a fair comparison.  All the "Melo is a cancer" stuff sounds ridiculous coming from Celtic fans.  They said all the same stuff about Pierce, but there was a valid argument that Pierce was a loser.  Melo has a track record of success.

Where is the statistic for personality? Paul was willing to take a back-seat, which is why he won a 'chip. Will Melo be?

Sure... if there is a player worth taking a back seat too.  Kevin Garnett was clearly a better player than Pierce.  You'd have to pair Melo with someone better than him... not a whole lot of players in this league qualify. 

Ya'll pointing out his unwillingness to take a back seat to Jeremy Lin as evidence he can't co-exist?  Lol.  Come on.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Yes, they were kind of the same.  Well, except for Pierce being a better shooter, a better passer, and a better defender.

Through age 29

Paul Pierce:  37.8 minutes  23.6 points, 3.9 assists, 6.5 rebounds, 1.7 steals, 44%/36%/79%

Carmelo Anthony:  36.4 minutes - 25.1 points, 3.1 assists, 6.5 rebounds, 1.1 steal 46%/34%/81%

I mean we're basically talking about dopplegangers here.

Per 36 minutes:

Pierce - 22.5 points, 6.2 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 1.6 steals, 44%/36%/79%

Melo - 24.8 points, 6.4 rebounds, 3 assists, 1.1 steals, 45%/34%/81%


Playoff games:

Melo - 66
Pierce - 37

Win/Loss Record:

Melo - 428-294 = .592
Pierce - 321-385 = .454


Resume:

Pierce - 5x All-star, 2x All-NBA 2nd team, 0x All-Defense
Melo - 6x All-star, 2x All-NBA 2nd team, 4x All-NBA 3rd team, NCAA Champion, 2 Olympic Gold Medals, 0x All-Defense

Bad press:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbwm2tolAHo



I'd say it's a fair comparison.  All the "Melo is a cancer" stuff sounds ridiculous coming from Celtic fans.  They said all the same stuff about Pierce, but there was a valid argument that Pierce was a loser.  Melo has a track record of success.

Where is the statistic for personality? Paul was willing to take a back-seat, which is why he won a 'chip. Will Melo be?

Sure... if there is a player worth taking a back seat too.  Kevin Garnett was clearly a better player than Pierce.  You'd have to pair Melo with someone better than him... not a whole lot of players in this league qualify. 

Ya'll pointing out his unwillingness to take a back seat to Jeremy Lin as evidence he can't co-exist?  Lol.  Come on.

I'm not sold Melo would've taken a back seat to KG.

Why did you not include defensive comparisons? Statistics hard to come by, but it's a joke of a landslide. Not to mention Pierce was as clutch as any one in the NBA in his prime (and slightly beyond). Can't say that for Melo, can you? Maybe you'll dig up some stats...

[LarBrd33]

Yes, they were kind of the same.  Well, except for Pierce being a better shooter, a better passer, and a better defender.

Through age 29

Paul Pierce:  37.8 minutes  23.6 points, 3.9 assists, 6.5 rebounds, 1.7 steals, 44%/36%/79%

Carmelo Anthony:  36.4 minutes - 25.1 points, 3.1 assists, 6.5 rebounds, 1.1 steal 46%/34%/81%

I mean we're basically talking about dopplegangers here.

Per 36 minutes:

Pierce - 22.5 points, 6.2 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 1.6 steals, 44%/36%/79%

Melo - 24.8 points, 6.4 rebounds, 3 assists, 1.1 steals, 45%/34%/81%


Playoff games:

Melo - 66
Pierce - 37

Win/Loss Record:

Melo - 428-294 = .592
Pierce - 321-385 = .454


Resume:

Pierce - 5x All-star, 2x All-NBA 2nd team, 0x All-Defense
Melo - 6x All-star, 2x All-NBA 2nd team, 4x All-NBA 3rd team, NCAA Champion, 2 Olympic Gold Medals, 0x All-Defense

Bad press:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbwm2tolAHo



I'd say it's a fair comparison.  All the "Melo is a cancer" stuff sounds ridiculous coming from Celtic fans.  They said all the same stuff about Pierce, but there was a valid argument that Pierce was a loser.  Melo has a track record of success.

Where is the statistic for personality? Paul was willing to take a back-seat, which is why he won a 'chip. Will Melo be?

Sure... if there is a player worth taking a back seat too.  Kevin Garnett was clearly a better player than Pierce.  You'd have to pair Melo with someone better than him... not a whole lot of players in this league qualify. 

Ya'll pointing out his unwillingness to take a back seat to Jeremy Lin as evidence he can't co-exist?  Lol.  Come on.

I'm not sold Melo would've taken a back seat to KG.

Why did you not include defensive comparisons? Statistics hard to come by, but it's a joke of a landslide. Not to mention Pierce was as clutch as any one in the NBA in his prime (and slightly beyond). Can't say that for Melo, can you? Maybe you'll dig up some stats...

I dunno man... has Melo struggled to co-exist on 3 gold medal teams?  Just askin... cuz I'm pretty sure Pierce failed to succeed in that environment.

Look... I love Pierce.  I just think this screams homerism and hypocrisy.  The level of disdain Melo gets is unwarranted.  He's been successful in this league.  If he had superstars like KG playing with him, he'd probably win a title too.  I don't bring up Pierce to knock my favorite player of the modern era... I merely am pointing out that at age 29, Pierce hadn't done jack squat in this league.  He had a bad rep.  The team had tried to trade him.  He hadn't succeeded at anything. 

I have no reason to believe Melo would fail in a proper environment.  I have no reason to believe we can trade for him either, but if the opportunity presented itself, I'd go for it. 

[tarheelsxxiii]

Yes, they were kind of the same.  Well, except for Pierce being a better shooter, a better passer, and a better defender.

Through age 29

Paul Pierce:  37.8 minutes  23.6 points, 3.9 assists, 6.5 rebounds, 1.7 steals, 44%/36%/79%

Carmelo Anthony:  36.4 minutes - 25.1 points, 3.1 assists, 6.5 rebounds, 1.1 steal 46%/34%/81%

I mean we're basically talking about dopplegangers here.

Per 36 minutes:

Pierce - 22.5 points, 6.2 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 1.6 steals, 44%/36%/79%

Melo - 24.8 points, 6.4 rebounds, 3 assists, 1.1 steals, 45%/34%/81%


Playoff games:

Melo - 66
Pierce - 37

Win/Loss Record:

Melo - 428-294 = .592
Pierce - 321-385 = .454


Resume:

Pierce - 5x All-star, 2x All-NBA 2nd team, 0x All-Defense
Melo - 6x All-star, 2x All-NBA 2nd team, 4x All-NBA 3rd team, NCAA Champion, 2 Olympic Gold Medals, 0x All-Defense

Bad press:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbwm2tolAHo



I'd say it's a fair comparison.  All the "Melo is a cancer" stuff sounds ridiculous coming from Celtic fans.  They said all the same stuff about Pierce, but there was a valid argument that Pierce was a loser.  Melo has a track record of success.

Where is the statistic for personality? Paul was willing to take a back-seat, which is why he won a 'chip. Will Melo be?

Sure... if there is a player worth taking a back seat too.  Kevin Garnett was clearly a better player than Pierce.  You'd have to pair Melo with someone better than him... not a whole lot of players in this league qualify. 

Ya'll pointing out his unwillingness to take a back seat to Jeremy Lin as evidence he can't co-exist?  Lol.  Come on.

I'm not sold Melo would've taken a back seat to KG.

Why did you not include defensive comparisons? Statistics hard to come by, but it's a joke of a landslide. Not to mention Pierce was as clutch as any one in the NBA in his prime (and slightly beyond). Can't say that for Melo, can you? Maybe you'll dig up some stats...

I dunno man... has Melo struggled to co-exist on 3 gold medal teams?  Just askin... cuz I'm pretty sure Pierce failed to succeed in that environment.

Look... I love Pierce.  I just think this screams homerism and hypocrisy.  The level of disdain Melo gets is unwarranted.  He's been successful in this league.  If he had superstars like KG playing with him, he'd probably win a title too.  I don't bring up Pierce to knock my favorite player of the modern era... I merely am pointing out that at age 29, Pierce hadn't done jack squat in this league.  He had a bad rep.  The team had tried to trade him.  He hadn't succeeded at anything. 

I have no reason to believe Melo would fail in a proper environment.  I have no reason to believe we can trade for him either, but if the opportunity presented itself, I'd go for it.

I don't disagree that he may have won a 'chip if in Paul's shoes. But he demands too much money for what he is... that's my biggest issue with him. I haven't seen an offense that succeeds without running everything through him. That just doesn't equate to championships. Durant is an immediate example that comes to mind.