Kevin Love frustrated in Minny,Would you include Sully in a trade to get Love ?

[Sizzlack]

I would give him the Garnett deal Green, Sully, OLynck, and a first, maybe 2

When talking basketball Kevins, Love does not belong in the same conversation as Garnett.  As someone else pointed out, Love is more like a super-sized David Lee.

Would I give up Sully, filler and a couple of 1st rounders for him?  Only if I had a plan in place to bring in someone else that would make Love only the 3rd best player on Boston's roster.

Mike

This is accurate. People forget that at KG's peak, he single handedly carried a pretty lousy Wolves team into Western conference championships. His PER is his MVP season was 26.3, which, for reference, as much as we love Pierce, the highest PER he ever had was around 19.

PER isn't a perfect stat, but it's a pretty good indicator of a players' overall contributions to a team, and if anything, it undervalues defense a bit, so Garnett's true impact isn't even really encompassed. All of this is to indicate one thing, at his absolutely best, Kevin Garnett was as dominant as any NBA player has been, ever. He was not one of those "write in" MVPs when talent just wasn't there, like Steve Nash, he truly and honestly was an absolutely dominant player.

Love is great, but he's nowhere near the player Garnett was at his best. So I'd completely agree with you, Love isn't worth giving up the type of assets you did to bring Garnett in.

[kozlodoev]

He was not one of those "write in" MVPs when talent just wasn't there, like Steve Nash, he truly and honestly was an absolutely dominant player.

I'm sorry, Nash carried multiple 60-win Phoenix teams on his back, and has arguably had as much playoff success as Garnett in Minnesota. He's not a write-in in any form or shape.

[Fafnir]

Pierce's career PER is higher than 19, let alone his peak PER.

Oh and PER sucks sucks sucks. Always has, always will. Its somewhat useful for comparing high usage stars offense to one another. But given that its break even point on shooting is 33% yeah.....

And of course it doesn't contemplate defense in any meaningful way. (DREB, BLKS, STLs aren't D)

[MBunge]

He was not one of those "write in" MVPs when talent just wasn't there, like Steve Nash, he truly and honestly was an absolutely dominant player.

I'm sorry, Nash carried multiple 60-win Phoenix teams on his back, and has arguably had as much playoff success as Garnett in Minnesota. He's not a write-in in any form or shape.

Nash isn't a write-in but by the standards used to justify his 2 MVPs, there's a lot of guys who should have won the award and were never even considered.  Nash is clearly one of the least deserving MVPs in league history.

Mike

[BballTim]

You're joking if you seriously think Sully is just a role player... If DA said Sully was up for trade, you'd get at least 10-15 interested teams..

And you're deluding yourself if you think he's anything more. For reference, check the Oklahoma City Hornets, who had their own Sullinger in David West.

  Possibly, but West was 4-5 years older than Sully before he was putting up numbers like Sully is now.

[BleedGreen1989]

If Love can agree to an extension, I wouldn't hesitate.

I'm not trading Sully for a rental however.

[D.o.s.]

He was not one of those "write in" MVPs when talent just wasn't there, like Steve Nash, he truly and honestly was an absolutely dominant player.

I'm sorry, Nash carried multiple 60-win Phoenix teams on his back, and has arguably had as much playoff success as Garnett in Minnesota. He's not a write-in in any form or shape.

Agreed.

[kozlodoev]

You're joking if you seriously think Sully is just a role player... If DA said Sully was up for trade, you'd get at least 10-15 interested teams..

And you're deluding yourself if you think he's anything more. For reference, check the Oklahoma City Hornets, who had their own Sullinger in David West.

Possibly, but West was 4-5 years older than Sully before he was putting up numbers like Sully is now.

West was arguably putting considerably better numbers when he was 4 years older than Sullinger is right now (similar per-36, but considering that Sullinger's main issue is still his inability to stay on the floor...). On the flip side, he has always been in much better shape and with much fewer injury questions than Sullinger has right now.

[danglertx]

Hard to answer because the money is so different.  You could easily make the case that Sully is more valuable over the next couple years on his rookie deal than Love is at max money. 

But if we throw in Wallace to make the money work, then obviously you'd do it.  Hard to say yes or no without knowing what the deal would be.

[Snakehead]

You're joking if you seriously think Sully is just a role player... If DA said Sully was up for trade, you'd get at least 10-15 interested teams..

And you're deluding yourself if you think he's anything more. For reference, check the Oklahoma City Hornets, who had their own Sullinger in David West.

Possibly, but West was 4-5 years older than Sully before he was putting up numbers like Sully is now.

West was arguably putting considerably better numbers when he was 4 years older than Sullinger is right now (similar per-36, but considering that Sullinger's main issue is still his inability to stay on the floor...). On the flip side, he has always been in much better shape and with much fewer injury questions than Sullinger has right now.

Why are you seeming to use a David West comparison as a bad thing?  He is a very good player (more than a role player for sure).  He is the heart and soul of the 2nd best team in the league and the best defensive team in the league.  He made two All Star teams.

If Sully is putting up numbers like him, and drawing comparisons at a younger age that's a good thing.  Keep in mind West was also playing with Chris Paul for his All Star best years.  Sully has been that level of focus for our offense this year but hasn't gotten to play with Rondo yet.

Sully has just now basically played a whole first seasons worth of NBA basketball.  There is a lot to be optimistic about.

[Monkhouse]

You're joking if you seriously think Sully is just a role player... If DA said Sully was up for trade, you'd get at least 10-15 interested teams..

And you're deluding yourself if you think he's anything more. For reference, check the Oklahoma City Hornets, who had their own Sullinger in David West.

Ummm... You didn't prove anything. If anything you proved my point.... 
Per 36 Sullinger has better numbers than the year David West started... Plus West is 25, and Sullinger is 21 putting up 13.8 PPG, 7.1 RPG on averages of 26.1 MPG...

In his first year David West actually starting he was 25 averaging 34.1 MPG 17.1 and 7.1 RPG.

We have no idea what Sullinger may actually accomplish at his highest ceiling. If he perfects his three point shooting, or does a better FGA/% who knows how much PPG he'll have?

Plus I think Sully has some very underrated passing for a PF imo...

[kozlodoev]

Why are you seeming to use a David West comparison as a bad thing?  He is a very good player (more than a role player for sure).  He is the heart and soul of the 2nd best team in the league and the best defensive team in the league.  He made two All Star teams.

Yes, a team on which he's a complementary piece (a.k.a. roleplayer). This team hangs their hat on George offensively and Hibbert defensively.

When you try to thrust him in a bigger role, you get the aforementioned Hornets, a mediocre to horrible team most of the time. Exactly he same applies for Sullinger.

[kozlodoev]

You're joking if you seriously think Sully is just a role player... If DA said Sully was up for trade, you'd get at least 10-15 interested teams..

And you're deluding yourself if you think he's anything more. For reference, check the Oklahoma City Hornets, who had their own Sullinger in David West.

Ummm... You didn't prove anything. If anything you proved my point.... 
Per 36 Sullinger has better numbers than the year David West started... Plus West is 25, and Sullinger is 21 putting up 13.8 PPG, 7.1 RPG on averages of 26.1 MPG...

In his first year David West actually starting he was 25 averaging 34.1 MPG 17.1 and 7.1 RPG.

We have no idea what Sullinger may actually accomplish at his highest ceiling. If he perfects his three point shooting, or does a better FGA/% who knows how much PPG he'll have?

Plus I think Sully has some very underrated passing for a PF imo...

I'm sure the Celtics would love to play Sullinger 36 minutes. The problem is he fouls so much that they can't. Plus, West never carried 40 extra pounds, or had to have preventative back surgery.

Indeed, we have no idea what Sullinger may actually accomplish. He can be Emeka Okafor tomorrow.

[Monkhouse]

You're joking if you seriously think Sully is just a role player... If DA said Sully was up for trade, you'd get at least 10-15 interested teams..

And you're deluding yourself if you think he's anything more. For reference, check the Oklahoma City Hornets, who had their own Sullinger in David West.

Ummm... You didn't prove anything. If anything you proved my point.... 
Per 36 Sullinger has better numbers than the year David West started... Plus West is 25, and Sullinger is 21 putting up 13.8 PPG, 7.1 RPG on averages of 26.1 MPG...

In his first year David West actually starting he was 25 averaging 34.1 MPG 17.1 and 7.1 RPG.

We have no idea what Sullinger may actually accomplish at his highest ceiling. If he perfects his three point shooting, or does a better FGA/% who knows how much PPG he'll have?

Plus I think Sully has some very underrated passing for a PF imo...

I'm sure the Celtics would love to play Sullinger 36 minutes. The problem is he fouls so much that they can't. Plus, West never carried 40 extra pounds, or had to have preventative back surgery.

Indeed, we have no idea what Sullinger may actually accomplish. He can be Emeka Okafor tomorrow.

So I guess agree to disagree until Sullinger turns 25 same age as David West? 

[BballTim]

You're joking if you seriously think Sully is just a role player... If DA said Sully was up for trade, you'd get at least 10-15 interested teams..

And you're deluding yourself if you think he's anything more. For reference, check the Oklahoma City Hornets, who had their own Sullinger in David West.

Possibly, but West was 4-5 years older than Sully before he was putting up numbers like Sully is now.

West was arguably putting considerably better numbers when he was 4 years older than Sullinger is right now (similar per-36, but considering that Sullinger's main issue is still his inability to stay on the floor...). On the flip side, he has always been in much better shape and with much fewer injury questions than Sullinger has right now.

  The back issue's big, the 21 vs 25 is also big. Sully's in his second year, he's 21 and his per36 numbers are close to West's peak numbers. If his back holds out it's extremely likely he'll be putting up better numbers than West when he's 26 or so.