Author Topic: DA already thought of blowing the team up in the '11 summer, per R. Allen  (Read 19161 times)

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Re: DA already thought of blowing the team up in the '11 summer, per R. Allen
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2013, 12:35:46 AM »

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This is all pretty much what I assumed happened, and it makes sense from all sides.

And I think Ray is absolutely right.  When a team tries to trade you, and you know they are on the verge of a transition, why would you go back there, if you value the comfort of knowing where you are going to be for the next few years?

I never blamed him.  He did was he felt was best.  Good for him.
Can't say I've ever been okay with how things went, but I'm kinda coming around after reading this article right now, so I guess I'm with you on this, Chris. Should've never really blamed him.

Re: DA already thought of blowing the team up in the '11 summer, per R. Allen
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2013, 12:39:53 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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This is all pretty much what I assumed happened, and it makes sense from all sides.

And I think Ray is absolutely right.  When a team tries to trade you, and you know they are on the verge of a transition, why would you go back there, if you value the comfort of knowing where you are going to be for the next few years?

I never blamed him.  He did was he felt was best.  Good for him.
It's a pity reporters have no balls to ask him whether he was really offered a no-trade, and if he were, how it figured into his trade worries. Or perhaps whether he thought this team would have been too good to dismantle the team in case he stayed. You know, curious little stuff like that.

Thanks for 2008, and good riddance. Please stop talking.
Why would a no-trade matter if the Celtics were going to blow up the team? He would be stuck on a rebuild instead of being able to determine his future.

Huh?  Most likely if they were looking to blow up the team they would try to trade Ray and Ray would be able to pick and choose where he wanted to go and if he wanted to go.

Pretty much what just happened like 3 months ago with KG

Because Garnett was so thrilled about joining Brooklyn (sarcasm)!

The reason why Allen's departure still stings KG, Pierce, and the rest of the fanbase is because it confirmed what we all knew but didn't want to admit. The big three era was over and this team wasn't good enough to win titles anymore. Maybe he felt mistreated by Ainge, frustrated by Rondo, or misused by Rivers but I don't think any of those were more important than the fact that Miami gave him the best chance to continue playing on a contender.

I cut him some slack because he can't really say that was the reason, just like a big money free agent can never say it was "about the money" upon joining a team, even if it's obvious it was. It's just one of the rules of sports that you can't say the obvious because it makes you look bad.

Ray was the one forced to change his game the most when the big three was formed. He was also the one who was forced to the bench. He was constantly the one being shopped, not Pierce or Garnett. He also had already been on two teams before, unlike the others. Pierce had never known any other team and Garnett was treated like royalty during his time in Minnesota, up to and including the trade process where Taylor and McHale did everything they could to make sure he felt OK about things. I can't help but feel that's why they were a little naive, which coupled with the feeling their run was over resulted in the angry reaction that lasts to this day.

If Ray had some personality issue that made his leaving for Miami an especially sore point for Pierce and Garnett, I'd like to see the evidence for it. Otherwise, it's just speculative character assassination.



Re: DA already thought of blowing the team up in the '11 summer, per R. Allen
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2013, 02:10:48 AM »

Offline incoherent

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If anything this proves to me that Ray Allen's departure was fueled by a bitterness more then anything, which is exactly what it seemed like when it happened.

He's not really changing the story or making himself look any better in my opinion. This really just cements what many of us knew. He was mad at Danny trading him, mad about AB taking his minutes.

These things are basketball related. But Ray admits he took them personally. 

Ray says we were going in another direction. That's just wrong, the Celts weren't going to blow it up and they didn't. After taking the Heat to 7, Ainge was creating a team that would compete for 2 more years if it stayed healthy and wanted Ray Allen to be our 6th man off the bench and he was going to get paid handsomely for it. We wanted Ray Allen in the exact same capacity the Heat wanted him, and we offered him more money. Any professional player would have taken more money to rejoin his team mates, but instead Ray admits he was upset about being benched (which makes no sense since he was going be a bench player in Miami)

Instead of looking at himself and blaming his own declining performance for being benched, he blamed Rondo, he blamed Doc. Ray didn't want another chance at the Heat in game 7, he wanted to just join them, that's easier.

Ray Allen is trying to make this a pity party for him when the reality is the things he claims he had to deal with are things that every single NBA player has to deal with, the majority of them do not put up such a fuss about it and cause them to just blame their team mates and coach and join the rival team for pittance.

Re: DA already thought of blowing the team up in the '11 summer, per R. Allen
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2013, 03:49:35 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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The story still doesn't add up for me.

He took LESS (half I think) to play with the arch enemy.

He moved farther from home/family/connections/kids doctors in CT and MA.

He agreed to play sixth man in Miami when being sixth man (when Bradley got the starting job) in Boston was so insulting.

He could not endure the trade rumors, yet he was not alone with PP and RR both having been on the block at various times.

There is something missing, something we don't know about because it still makes no sense to me.

Coming off the bench behind Wade is a very different thing than being the sixth man behind Bradley.

The gap is closing, slightly, this season, but Wade is a surefire Hall of Famer. Bradley most likely won't be.

If anything this proves to me that Ray Allen's departure was fueled by a bitterness more then anything, which is exactly what it seemed like when it happened.

He's not really changing the story or making himself look any better in my opinion. This really just cements what many of us knew. He was mad at Danny trading him, mad about AB taking his minutes.

These things are basketball related. But Ray admits he took them personally. 

Ray says we were going in another direction. That's just wrong, the Celts weren't going to blow it up and they didn't. After taking the Heat to 7, Ainge was creating a team that would compete for 2 more years if it stayed healthy and wanted Ray Allen to be our 6th man off the bench and he was going to get paid handsomely for it. We wanted Ray Allen in the exact same capacity the Heat wanted him, and we offered him more money. Any professional player would have taken more money to rejoin his team mates, but instead Ray admits he was upset about being benched (which makes no sense since he was going be a bench player in Miami)

Instead of looking at himself and blaming his own declining performance for being benched, he blamed Rondo, he blamed Doc. Ray didn't want another chance at the Heat in game 7, he wanted to just join them, that's easier.

Ray Allen is trying to make this a pity party for him when the reality is the things he claims he had to deal with are things that every single NBA player has to deal with, the majority of them do not put up such a fuss about it and cause them to just blame their team mates and coach and join the rival team for pittance.

I think you have a very appropriate username.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: DA already thought of blowing the team up in the '11 summer, per R. Allen
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2013, 04:14:36 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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If anything this proves to me that Ray Allen's departure was fueled by a bitterness more then anything, which is exactly what it seemed like when it happened.

He's not really changing the story or making himself look any better in my opinion. This really just cements what many of us knew. He was mad at Danny trading him, mad about AB taking his minutes.

These things are basketball related. But Ray admits he took them personally. 

Ray says we were going in another direction. That's just wrong, the Celts weren't going to blow it up and they didn't. After taking the Heat to 7, Ainge was creating a team that would compete for 2 more years if it stayed healthy and wanted Ray Allen to be our 6th man off the bench and he was going to get paid handsomely for it. We wanted Ray Allen in the exact same capacity the Heat wanted him, and we offered him more money. Any professional player would have taken more money to rejoin his team mates, but instead Ray admits he was upset about being benched (which makes no sense since he was going be a bench player in Miami)

Instead of looking at himself and blaming his own declining performance for being benched, he blamed Rondo, he blamed Doc. Ray didn't want another chance at the Heat in game 7, he wanted to just join them, that's easier.

Ray Allen is trying to make this a pity party for him when the reality is the things he claims he had to deal with are things that every single NBA player has to deal with, the majority of them do not put up such a fuss about it and cause them to just blame their team mates and coach and join the rival team for pittance.

Only the team didn't compete for two years. It tried one year and then dealt Garnett, Pierce, and Terry. If Ainge had promised he wouldn't blow it up those two seasons and had built enough goodwill with Ray for there to be a trust, Ray may well have signed. But of course there was no trust at that point and Ainge would never give a guarantee like that.

Ainge's most repeated quote is still the one he gave about the 80s Celtics team waiting too long to deal its stars. He's clearly always been in the "best for the organization" camp, not the "die with your aging star slowly until he retires" camp (like the Lakers). Evidently, ownership agrees or they would have put the kibosh on the Pierce deal.

I'm not saying either way is right or wrong from a "loyalty" or moral standpoint, just that Ray correctly predicted that Ainge and the franchise would have no compunction blowing it up during the course of his prospective deal.

Some people have mentioned a no-trade clause as somehow being protection, but that only protects you if you WANT to stay on a rebuilding team. You've got factors like trade rules requiring matching deals and the organization dealing you wanting the best possible return really limiting your destination options.

Not to mention, in a trade the team you're going to has to give up assets to obtain you. The Heat didn't need to give the Celtics anything to get Ray. Meanwhile, Brooklyn's chances of making a deal are severely limited due to the Celtics owning all their picks and taking one of their big expiring contracts. Pierce and Garnett are stuck.

Ray considered all this and thought, if this season and next there's really not going to be any situation that could possibly be better than Miami, why wouldn't I go there? Eliminate the rivalry thing that fans think players should care about but they actually don't and the call was a no-brainer.

In regards to whether as a friend to Pierce and Garnett he shouldn't have made that decision, as I said before we don't know any of these people personally so I hesitate to speculate too far. My guess is that they'll all make up sometime after retirement.



Re: DA already thought of blowing the team up in the '11 summer, per R. Allen
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2013, 06:09:11 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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People had a cow when he did this year imagine if he'd done that in '11.  He'd have to live as a recluse and never be seen in public again.

I think he timed it perfect.

Re: DA already thought of blowing the team up in the '11 summer, per R. Allen
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2013, 07:58:59 AM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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If the team competed throughout the season as they should've, Ainge wouldn't have been so eager to break the team up and rebuild. If they didn't want to get traded, they should've executed and performed for what they were paid for. There was always talk that the trade was for a small window, and that Ainge extended the window for as long as he did, giving them more opportunities, shows more about his restraint than his eagerness to live up to his moniker of "Trader Danny"... at times making deals and and signing players that he had no use for in the future and are now a bit of a hindrance.

That said, no one cares that Ray left... well, that's not accurate, people understand why he had to leave, and he should be respected for that. But the way he left was terrible and for that he'll always be considered a traitor. He can hate the Celtics organization all he wants, yada yada, but the truth of it is that he turned his back on the fanbase that supported him while he was wearing Celtics' green, and THAT is unforgivable... to say nothing on how he flashed the middle finger to his teammates, some he shared a championship with.

In summary, Ray Allen... YOU SUCK!

And you never understood what it meant to be a Celtic.

Re: DA already thought of blowing the team up in the '11 summer, per R. Allen
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2013, 09:39:58 AM »

Offline csfansince60s

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If anything this proves to me that Ray Allen's departure was fueled by a bitterness more then anything, which is exactly what it seemed like when it happened.

He's not really changing the story or making himself look any better in my opinion. This really just cements what many of us knew. He was mad at Danny trading him, mad about AB taking his minutes.

These things are basketball related. But Ray admits he took them personally. 

Ray says we were going in another direction. That's just wrong, the Celts weren't going to blow it up and they didn't. After taking the Heat to 7, Ainge was creating a team that would compete for 2 more years if it stayed healthy and wanted Ray Allen to be our 6th man off the bench and he was going to get paid handsomely for it. We wanted Ray Allen in the exact same capacity the Heat wanted him, and we offered him more money. Any professional player would have taken more money to rejoin his team mates, but instead Ray admits he was upset about being benched (which makes no sense since he was going be a bench player in Miami)

Instead of looking at himself and blaming his own declining performance for being benched, he blamed Rondo, he blamed Doc. Ray didn't want another chance at the Heat in game 7, he wanted to just join them, that's easier.

Ray Allen is trying to make this a pity party for him when the reality is the things he claims he had to deal with are things that every single NBA player has to deal with, the majority of them do not put up such a fuss about it and cause them to just blame their team mates and coach and join the rival team for pittance.

Incoherent, +1 for the coherence of your post.

Re: DA already thought of blowing the team up in the '11 summer, per R. Allen
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2013, 09:40:42 AM »

Offline csfansince60s

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If the team competed throughout the season as they should've, Ainge wouldn't have been so eager to break the team up and rebuild. If they didn't want to get traded, they should've executed and performed for what they were paid for. There was always talk that the trade was for a small window, and that Ainge extended the window for as long as he did, giving them more opportunities, shows more about his restraint than his eagerness to live up to his moniker of "Trader Danny"... at times making deals and and signing players that he had no use for in the future and are now a bit of a hindrance.

That said, no one cares that Ray left... well, that's not accurate, people understand why he had to leave, and he should be respected for that. But the way he left was terrible and for that he'll always be considered a traitor. He can hate the Celtics organization all he wants, yada yada, but the truth of it is that he turned his back on the fanbase that supported him while he was wearing Celtics' green, and THAT is unforgivable... to say nothing on how he flashed the middle finger to his teammates, some he shared a championship with.

In summary, Ray Allen... YOU SUCK!

And you never understood what it meant to be a Celtic.

+ 1.....hard to see it any other way for me.

Re: DA already thought of blowing the team up in the '11 summer, per R. Allen
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2013, 10:03:56 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Ray clearly felt he wasn't wanted here anymore. Between the trade rumors, his documented rocky relationship with Rondo, and likely other things like Doc benching Ray for Avery Bradley, maybe rifts he had with Paul and/or KG, who knows.

What I am saying is there comes a point where offering someone a "no trade" clause just doesn't matter. It's clear to the player, it's time to say goodbye.
Let me see if I got this straight: the team on which Ray Allen supposedly "wasn't wanted" offered him the best deal out there in terms of money and years, and was allegedly willing to tack in a no-trade clause to that. Sorry, but this doesn't make any sense.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: DA already thought of blowing the team up in the '11 summer, per R. Allen
« Reply #40 on: December 24, 2013, 10:31:24 AM »

Offline csfansince60s

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Ray clearly felt he wasn't wanted here anymore. Between the trade rumors, his documented rocky relationship with Rondo, and likely other things like Doc benching Ray for Avery Bradley, maybe rifts he had with Paul and/or KG, who knows.

What I am saying is there comes a point where offering someone a "no trade" clause just doesn't matter. It's clear to the player, it's time to say goodbye.
Let me see if I got this straight: the team on which Ray Allen supposedly "wasn't wanted" offered him the best deal out there in terms of money and years, and was allegedly willing to tack in a no-trade clause to that. Sorry, but this doesn't make any sense.

The scary part is that Judas apologists are falling for that crap, or should I say using that crap to bolster their position.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Re: DA already thought of blowing the team up in the '11 summer, per R. Allen
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2013, 11:24:00 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Coming off the bench behind Wade is a very different thing than being the sixth man behind Bradley.

The gap is closing, slightly, this season, but Wade is a surefire Hall of Famer. Bradley most likely won't be.
And what happened to professionalism, doing what's best for the team, and all that? Because it is starting to look to me that all the Ray Allen griping was about Ray Allen not getting his.

Also, when it's all said and done, Allen's role on the Celtics would still have been bigger than the role he had on the Heat.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: DA already thought of blowing the team up in the '11 summer, per R. Allen
« Reply #42 on: December 25, 2013, 10:42:02 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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If the team competed throughout the season as they should've, Ainge wouldn't have been so eager to break the team up and rebuild. If they didn't want to get traded, they should've executed and performed for what they were paid for. There was always talk that the trade was for a small window, and that Ainge extended the window for as long as he did, giving them more opportunities, shows more about his restraint than his eagerness to live up to his moniker of "Trader Danny"... at times making deals and and signing players that he had no use for in the future and are now a bit of a hindrance.

That said, no one cares that Ray left... well, that's not accurate, people understand why he had to leave, and he should be respected for that. But the way he left was terrible and for that he'll always be considered a traitor. He can hate the Celtics organization all he wants, yada yada, but the truth of it is that he turned his back on the fanbase that supported him while he was wearing Celtics' green, and THAT is unforgivable... to say nothing on how he flashed the middle finger to his teammates, some he shared a championship with.

In summary, Ray Allen... YOU SUCK!

And you never understood what it meant to be a Celtic.

+ 1.....hard to see it any other way for me.
I agree with Bud too, but I would not give him so much credit that I respect him for what is his right to do, i.e go play for any team he wants.  That is the rule for a vet FA and I see no need to give respect. 

Bottom line for me is that we now know that what matters for Ray Allen is Ray Allen.  He is not this consummate professional we thought he was. He also can't suck it up and rise above trade rumors, benchings etc. he is so unlike Paul Pierce in these respects.

Re: DA already thought of blowing the team up in the '11 summer, per R. Allen
« Reply #43 on: December 25, 2013, 11:16:14 AM »

Offline Interceptor

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Only the team didn't compete for two years. It tried one year and then dealt Garnett, Pierce, and Terry.
... because Rondo tore his ACL. Rondo, who is still not back after 29 games into a new season. Can't blame injuries on Ainge.

Re: DA already thought of blowing the team up in the '11 summer, per R. Allen
« Reply #44 on: December 25, 2013, 11:26:27 AM »

Offline Onslaught

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Ray Allen is like my first girlfriend. Loved them at the time but got really p---ed when they dumped me. Took some time but got over it and don't care anymore. I would wish him the best but he plays for the Heat so I can't do that. But I no longer hate him and think he did the right thing for himself.

It's over and done with and I'd like everyone including himself to just shut up about it.
Peace through Tyranny