Rockets seek deal for Omer Asik

[kozlodoev]

Asik is much more athletic and is a significantly better rebounder than Perkins ever was.

Thats a no and a no.

[BleedGreen1989]

Asik is much more athletic and is a significantly better rebounder than Perkins ever was.

Thats a no and a no.

Great insight...

[indeedproceed]

Asik is much more athletic and is a significantly better rebounder than Perkins ever was.

Thats a no and a no.

Based on what? Last year, Asik was 4th in the league in rebound rate, Perkins was 79th.

Defense is a little harder to quantify, but if you watch Asik patrol the paint and compare it to Perkins, its not really an 'up in the air' kind of question. He's much more mobile.

[kozlodoev]

Asik is much more athletic and is a significantly better rebounder than Perkins ever was.

Thats a no and a no.

Based on what? Last year, Asik was 4th in the league in rebound rate, Perkins was 79th.

Defense is a little harder to quantify, but if you watch Asik patrol the paint and compare it to Perkins, its not really an 'up in the air' kind of question. He's much more mobile.

Yes, compare last year's Asik to post-op Perk. That's certainly a fair comparison.

Perkins was a comparable defensive rebounder before his injury, and a superior offensive player.

[BleedGreen1989]

Asik is much more athletic and is a significantly better rebounder than Perkins ever was.

Thats a no and a no.

Based on what? Last year, Asik was 4th in the league in rebound rate, Perkins was 79th.

Defense is a little harder to quantify, but if you watch Asik patrol the paint and compare it to Perkins, its not really an 'up in the air' kind of question. He's much more mobile.

Yes, compare last year's Asik to post-op Perk. That's certainly a fair comparison.

Perkins was a comparable defensive rebounder before his injury, and a superior offensive player.

Perkins career high DRB per game is 5.6 compared to Asik's career high last year of 8.3 DRB per game. Nearly a 3 rebound difference per game.

Compare total rebounds per game (career highs respectively):

Perkins/8.1 and Asik's/11.7. So a 3.6 difference per game.

I would say that's significantly better.

Edit: Also, like IP said, if you just watch the two players play defense (even 08-09 Perkins), the athletic difference is pretty noticeable.

[fairweatherfan]

Asik is much more athletic and is a significantly better rebounder than Perkins ever was.

Thats a no and a no.

Based on what? Last year, Asik was 4th in the league in rebound rate, Perkins was 79th.

Defense is a little harder to quantify, but if you watch Asik patrol the paint and compare it to Perkins, its not really an 'up in the air' kind of question. He's much more mobile.

Yes, compare last year's Asik to post-op Perk. That's certainly a fair comparison.

Perkins was a comparable defensive rebounder before his injury, and a superior offensive player.

Asik's career defensive rebounding % is a full 6.5 points higher than Perk's.  Excluding Perk's 35 minute rookie year, he's never approached Asik's career average rate in any single season.  And that doesn't account for Asik's even larger edge on the offensive glass.  It's a very poor comparison to make no matter when you're making it.

[indeedproceed]

Asik is much more athletic and is a significantly better rebounder than Perkins ever was.

Thats a no and a no.

Based on what? Last year, Asik was 4th in the league in rebound rate, Perkins was 79th.

Defense is a little harder to quantify, but if you watch Asik patrol the paint and compare it to Perkins, its not really an 'up in the air' kind of question. He's much more mobile.

Yes, compare last year's Asik to post-op Perk. That's certainly a fair comparison.

Okay, what's the comparison you want?

His overall average in boston? 16.4 Reb rate, significantly below Asik last year.

His best overall year as a full-time starter? 16.9, significantly below Asik last year.

Its not really a strong case that Perkins is the better rebounder. Better defender is a little murkier, but a lot of that relies on things that are unknowable and also tough to quantify. How would Perkins impact a team without a dominant defender next to him? How much of Boston's historic defense at the end of the last defense was Perkins?

One thing that we do know: Without a dominant defender next to him in Houston, Asik being on the floor was the difference between Houston being a top-10 defense, or a bottom-5 defense.

[byennie]

Asik is much more athletic and is a significantly better rebounder than Perkins ever was.

Thats a no and a no.

Based on what? Last year, Asik was 4th in the league in rebound rate, Perkins was 79th.

Defense is a little harder to quantify, but if you watch Asik patrol the paint and compare it to Perkins, its not really an 'up in the air' kind of question. He's much more mobile.

Yes, compare last year's Asik to post-op Perk. That's certainly a fair comparison.

Perkins was a comparable defensive rebounder before his injury, and a superior offensive player.

No he wasn't. Perkins' career high is 8.1 boards (5.5 defensive). Asik in his 1st year as a starter averaged 11.7 (8.3) and very nearly led the league. Asik's rebound rate was 22% - by comparison Perkins was under 17% in his prime. That's not comparable at all, and it's cherry picking the best possible numbers from Perkins' 7 year run in Boston.

Better offensive player, yes, I'd agree. But superior is a bit strong for a guy who averaged double figures exactly once in his prime, in his 7th year, versus a guy who did the same in his only year as a starter.

[kozlodoev]

Asik is much more athletic and is a significantly better rebounder than Perkins ever was.

Thats a no and a no.

Based on what? Last year, Asik was 4th in the league in rebound rate, Perkins was 79th.

Defense is a little harder to quantify, but if you watch Asik patrol the paint and compare it to Perkins, its not really an 'up in the air' kind of question. He's much more mobile.

Yes, compare last year's Asik to post-op Perk. That's certainly a fair comparison.

Perkins was a comparable defensive rebounder before his injury, and a superior offensive player.

No he wasn't. Perkins' career high is 8.1 boards (5.5 defensive). Asik in his 1st year as a starter averaged 11.7 (8.3) and very nearly led the league. Asik's rebound rate was 22% - by comparison Perkins was under 17% in his prime. That's not comparable at all, and it's cherry picking the best possible numbers from Perkins' 7 year run in Boston.

Better offensive player, yes, I'd agree. But superior is a bit strong for a guy who averaged double figures exactly once in his prime, in his 7th year, versus a guy who did the same in his only year as a starter.

I said DEFENSIVE rebounder for a reason, and the reason was that the Celtics deemphasized offensive rebounding as a team. On a per-minute and rate basis, Perkins and Asik were very similar at identical ages, and without Perk's knee injury it's anyone guess who the better player is.

Perkins shot ~60% from the field for three consecutive years at the height of his career. Asik shot 54% in his best year. Of course part of this is Rondo passing Perk the ball, but I don't think there's much room for comparison regardless. At some point, we had designated post plays for Perk.

[indeedproceed]

Asik is much more athletic and is a significantly better rebounder than Perkins ever was.

Thats a no and a no.

Based on what? Last year, Asik was 4th in the league in rebound rate, Perkins was 79th.

Defense is a little harder to quantify, but if you watch Asik patrol the paint and compare it to Perkins, its not really an 'up in the air' kind of question. He's much more mobile.

Yes, compare last year's Asik to post-op Perk. That's certainly a fair comparison.

Perkins was a comparable defensive rebounder before his injury, and a superior offensive player.

No he wasn't. Perkins' career high is 8.1 boards (5.5 defensive). Asik in his 1st year as a starter averaged 11.7 (8.3) and very nearly led the league. Asik's rebound rate was 22% - by comparison Perkins was under 17% in his prime. That's not comparable at all, and it's cherry picking the best possible numbers from Perkins' 7 year run in Boston.

Better offensive player, yes, I'd agree. But superior is a bit strong for a guy who averaged double figures exactly once in his prime, in his 7th year, versus a guy who did the same in his only year as a starter.

I said DEFENSIVE rebounder for a reason, and the reason was that the Celtics deemphasized offensive rebounding as a team. On a per-minute and rate basis, Perkins and Asik were very similar at identical ages, and without Perk's knee injury it's anyone guess who the better player is.

Perkins shot ~60% from the field for three consecutive years at the height of his career. Asik shot 54% in his best year. Of course part of this is Rondo passing Perk the ball, but I don't think there's much room for comparison regardless. At some point, we had designated post plays for Perk.

Even if we just do defensive rebound rate, Asik's 31 is still 20% better than Perkins' best mark relevant mark pre-op.

[fairweatherfan]

Asik is much more athletic and is a significantly better rebounder than Perkins ever was.

Thats a no and a no.

Based on what? Last year, Asik was 4th in the league in rebound rate, Perkins was 79th.

Defense is a little harder to quantify, but if you watch Asik patrol the paint and compare it to Perkins, its not really an 'up in the air' kind of question. He's much more mobile.

Yes, compare last year's Asik to post-op Perk. That's certainly a fair comparison.

Perkins was a comparable defensive rebounder before his injury, and a superior offensive player.

No he wasn't. Perkins' career high is 8.1 boards (5.5 defensive). Asik in his 1st year as a starter averaged 11.7 (8.3) and very nearly led the league. Asik's rebound rate was 22% - by comparison Perkins was under 17% in his prime. That's not comparable at all, and it's cherry picking the best possible numbers from Perkins' 7 year run in Boston.

Better offensive player, yes, I'd agree. But superior is a bit strong for a guy who averaged double figures exactly once in his prime, in his 7th year, versus a guy who did the same in his only year as a starter.

I said DEFENSIVE rebounder for a reason, and the reason was that the Celtics deemphasized offensive rebounding as a team. On a per-minute and rate basis, Perkins and Asik were very similar at identical ages, and without Perk's knee injury it's anyone guess who the better player is.

See my post above - for defensive rebounding rate, Perk's career high is below Asik's career average.

[kozlodoev]

Even if we just do defensive rebound rate, Asik's 31 is still 20% better than Perkins' best mark relevant mark pre-op.

Asik's 31% came at age 26 -- an age at which Perk posted a 26% rebounding rate in a year where he was coming back from knee surgery. In the subsequent offseason he lost weight to relieve pressure on his repaired knee and was never the same, subsequently. Given that Asik and Perkins have been on a similar career trend up to that point, I feel quite comfortable in my educated guess that barring the injury they would have been comparable rebounders -- perhaps with a slight edge to Asik.

[indeedproceed]

Even if we just do defensive rebound rate, Asik's 31 is still 20% better than Perkins' best mark relevant mark pre-op.

Asik's 31% came at age 26 -- an age at which Perk posted a 26% rebounding rate in a year where he was coming back from knee surgery. In the subsequent offseason he lost weight to relieve pressure on his repaired knee and was never the same, subsequently. Given that Asik and Perkins have been on a similar career trend up to that point, I feel quite comfortable in my educated guess that barring the injury they would have been comparable rebounders -- perhaps with a slight edge to Asik.

Okay, this I can live with, because its strictly hypothetical opinion. I mean yeah, in an alternative timeline, perhaps Perkins never gets hurt and improves his rebounding to bring it up to Asik's levels as a starter. But in that timeline, Perkins' is a more valuable player, because he becomes a better rebounder.

And I mean at this point, what are we even talking about? Is Asik a better rebounder than Perkins could've become in how own time, if he hadn't suffered an injury? I do not know, nobody does.

[byennie]

I said DEFENSIVE rebounder for a reason, and the reason was that the Celtics deemphasized offensive rebounding as a team. On a per-minute and rate basis, Perkins and Asik were very similar at identical ages, and without Perk's knee injury it's anyone guess who the better player is.

Perkins shot ~60% from the field for three consecutive years at the height of his career. Asik shot 54% in his best year. Of course part of this is Rondo passing Perk the ball, but I don't think there's much room for comparison regardless. At some point, we had designated post plays for Perk.

Yeah, and it's still completely false. Asik has been a far more effective defensive rebounder by every measure unless you just want to claim "it was the system!" for all 7 years of Perk in Boston.

I like Perk and happen to think he was worth in the $5M-$10M range in his prime, but you are just making stuff up when you claim he was a better rebounder. On offense I admit it's a bit more subjective, but it's not like Perk was ever considered a good offensive player. He just got less awful after 7 years of playing in the same town.

[kozlodoev]

Even if we just do defensive rebound rate, Asik's 31 is still 20% better than Perkins' best mark relevant mark pre-op.

Asik's 31% came at age 26 -- an age at which Perk posted a 26% rebounding rate in a year where he was coming back from knee surgery. In the subsequent offseason he lost weight to relieve pressure on his repaired knee and was never the same, subsequently. Given that Asik and Perkins have been on a similar career trend up to that point, I feel quite comfortable in my educated guess that barring the injury they would have been comparable rebounders -- perhaps with a slight edge to Asik.

Okay, this I can live with, because its strictly hypothetical opinion. I mean yeah, in an alternative timeline, perhaps Perkins never gets hurt and improves his rebounding to bring it up to Asik's levels as a starter. But in that timeline, Perkins' is a more valuable player, because he becomes a better rebounder.

And I mean at this point, what are we even talking about? Is Asik a better rebounder than Perkins could've become in how own time, if he hadn't suffered an injury? I do not know, nobody does.

This all cropped up again from the discussion of whether Asik is a Perkins-type. He is, with the caveat that Perk is no longer a "Perkins-type". But at their peak, they were pretty much the same player -- defensive-minded centers with limited offensive skills (one slightly better than the other in different departments), and strictly role players. Make of this what you will.