What do you all think of Melo in green?

[LarBrd33]

I said in another thread that you could potentially do something like:

Boston trades:
Jeff Green - 3 years
Bass - 2 years
Lee - 3 years
Wallace - 3 years
Humphries - 1  year
our 2014 pick
Atlanta's 2014 pick
More 1st rounders?

Knicks trade:
Carmelo Anthony - 2 years
Amare Stoudamire's corpse. - 2 years 


Why for Boston:  Get an all-star.  Gets rid of all the 3 year deals.  Then maybe they can trade Olynyk, the Pierce trade exception and another pick for Asik.  Try their luck with Rondo, Bradley, Melo, Sully and Asik.  Also... that would mean that all their big contracts (Rondo, Melo, Amare, Asik) would come off the books in the summer of 2015.  They could try floating Amare's expiring at next year's deadline... or they could target Kevin Love in 2015 free agency.  It's basically an all-in move that I find highly unlikely Ainge will do.  He'd rather just bottom out and land a star through the lotto.

  The odds on Danny preferring to bottom out for a draft pick instead of bringing in another star player are IMO pretty slim. I don't think much of anything he's done since he came to Boston points to that.

... he tried trading Pierce to Portland for a draft pick that would have been used on Chris Paul.  Pierce vetoed the trade.

He allowed the team to bottom out in 2007 for a shot at Oden/Durant.

He traded an "all-star" big man for some "meh" talent and a 1st round pick in 2003.

We just traded two of our 3 best players for future draft considerations.

There's plenty of evidence to support Ainge prefers building through the draft... or at very least acquiring assets through the draft.   This season with this draft class looming... i still find it far more likely that Ainge tries to get this team to bottom out.   No sense in going for a "big splash" Melo trade now.  Maybe during the offseason if our lotto dreams don't pan out... but not now.

Still, It's fun to think about.

[KGs Knee]

I said in another thread that you could potentially do something like:

Boston trades:
Jeff Green - 3 years
Bass - 2 years
Lee - 3 years
Wallace - 3 years
Humphries - 1  year
our 2014 pick
Atlanta's 2014 pick
More 1st rounders?

Knicks trade:
Carmelo Anthony - 2 years
Amare Stoudamire's corpse. - 2 years 


Why for Boston:  Get an all-star.  Gets rid of all the 3 year deals.  Then maybe they can trade Olynyk, the Pierce trade exception and another pick for Asik.  Try their luck with Rondo, Bradley, Melo, Sully and Asik.  Also... that would mean that all their big contracts (Rondo, Melo, Amare, Asik) would come off the books in the summer of 2015.  They could try floating Amare's expiring at next year's deadline... or they could target Kevin Love in 2015 free agency.  It's basically an all-in move that I find highly unlikely Ainge will do.  He'd rather just bottom out and land a star through the lotto.

  The odds on Danny preferring to bottom out for a draft pick instead of bringing in another star player are IMO pretty slim. I don't think much of anything he's done since he came to Boston points to that.

Tis isn't true.  In the season prior to acquiring Allen and KG, there was substantial talk of trading for Iverson.  Ainge passed, let the team continue to stink, and landed the #5 pick.  There was later talk of trading Pierce, after no superstar 'help' was brought in.  Ainge was patient, though, and then pulled off the Allen/KG deal.

I suspect Ainge would prefer to let the team stink this year, get the high pick, an have that more bargaining power at the trade table.  We could still trade for Melo in the off-season, via S&T.

[BballTim]

I said in another thread that you could potentially do something like:

Boston trades:
Jeff Green - 3 years
Bass - 2 years
Lee - 3 years
Wallace - 3 years
Humphries - 1  year
our 2014 pick
Atlanta's 2014 pick
More 1st rounders?

Knicks trade:
Carmelo Anthony - 2 years
Amare Stoudamire's corpse. - 2 years 


Why for Boston:  Get an all-star.  Gets rid of all the 3 year deals.  Then maybe they can trade Olynyk, the Pierce trade exception and another pick for Asik.  Try their luck with Rondo, Bradley, Melo, Sully and Asik.  Also... that would mean that all their big contracts (Rondo, Melo, Amare, Asik) would come off the books in the summer of 2015.  They could try floating Amare's expiring at next year's deadline... or they could target Kevin Love in 2015 free agency.  It's basically an all-in move that I find highly unlikely Ainge will do.  He'd rather just bottom out and land a star through the lotto.

  The odds on Danny preferring to bottom out for a draft pick instead of bringing in another star player are IMO pretty slim. I don't think much of anything he's done since he came to Boston points to that.

... he tried trading Pierce to Portland for a draft pick that would have been used on Chris Paul.  Pierce vetoed the trade.

He allowed the team to bottom out in 2007 for a shot at Oden/Durant.

He traded an "all-star" big man for some "meh" talent and a 1st round pick in 2003.

We just traded two of our 3 best players for future draft considerations.

There's plenty of evidence to support Ainge prefers building through the draft... or at very least acquiring assets through the draft.   This season with this draft class looming... i still find it far more likely that Ainge tries to get this team to bottom out.   No sense in going for a "big splash" Melo trade now.  Maybe during the offseason if our lotto dreams don't pan out... but not now.

Still, It's fun to think about.

  Trading PP for CP probably wouldn't have equated bottoming out. The Antoine trade wasn't about getting worse, he was hoping for a healthy Raef in return. The only reason we bottomed out in 2007 was a mid-season injury to our best player. At the end of that season we had PP, Rondo, Perk, TA *and* enough assets to trade for KG and RA. Hardly bottoming out. And are you still under the impression that PP and KG are better than every player on the roster besides Rondo? Yikes!

[BballTim]

I said in another thread that you could potentially do something like:

Boston trades:
Jeff Green - 3 years
Bass - 2 years
Lee - 3 years
Wallace - 3 years
Humphries - 1  year
our 2014 pick
Atlanta's 2014 pick
More 1st rounders?

Knicks trade:
Carmelo Anthony - 2 years
Amare Stoudamire's corpse. - 2 years 


Why for Boston:  Get an all-star.  Gets rid of all the 3 year deals.  Then maybe they can trade Olynyk, the Pierce trade exception and another pick for Asik.  Try their luck with Rondo, Bradley, Melo, Sully and Asik.  Also... that would mean that all their big contracts (Rondo, Melo, Amare, Asik) would come off the books in the summer of 2015.  They could try floating Amare's expiring at next year's deadline... or they could target Kevin Love in 2015 free agency.  It's basically an all-in move that I find highly unlikely Ainge will do.  He'd rather just bottom out and land a star through the lotto.

  The odds on Danny preferring to bottom out for a draft pick instead of bringing in another star player are IMO pretty slim. I don't think much of anything he's done since he came to Boston points to that.

Tis isn't true.  In the season prior to acquiring Allen and KG, there was substantial talk of trading for Iverson.  Ainge passed, let the team continue to stink, and landed the #5 pick.  There was later talk of trading Pierce, after no superstar 'help' was brought in.  Ainge was patient, though, and then pulled off the Allen/KG deal.

I suspect Ainge would prefer to let the team stink this year, get the high pick, an have that more bargaining power at the trade table.  We could still trade for Melo in the off-season, via S&T.

  The trade for AI would have sent out Jefferson, so it wouldn't have made the team much better that year, plus it would have been a bad trade.

[BleedGreen1989]

I agree Melo isn't a cancer.

I think he needs a player he respects well enough to give the ball up and I think Rondo could be that guy. I hardly believe Raymond Felton or JR Smith are those kind of guys.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but if Danny added Melo to Rondo I'd be very excited.

[Onslaught]

Most overrated player int he last 10 or so years in the NBA. I don't ever see him being the main guy on a championship team. He'll get you into the playoffs and put up points but he's not a winner. Kind of like a modern day Dominique Wilkins in that he's fine for the regular season but can't take you to the promise land.

[hardlyyardley]

as long as it's milwaukee green, that's fine

[kozlodoev]

I'm still shocked that people think Antoine Walker was an "all-star" and a good player. He scored a lot, but man look at what he was doing those seasons.

Career best ORTG for 'Toine was 101, and that's from a guy who's supposed to be a scorer.

'Toine was holding Pierce back.

Walker was an allstar primarily because the bigs in the East were terrible during his era in Boston. Someone had to help fill out the 12 man allstar roster.

And his PPG was really high from a PF.

Every time I look at his numbers I'm shocked by how bad they are. Antoine's game was always ugly to me but man of man it never seemed that bad.

Walker was one of the most skilled PFs in the game, a great passer and ballhandler and a decent defensive rebounder when he put his mind to it. It's too bad he progressively played away from his strengths until his game pretty much imploded.

[manl_lui]

I agree Melo isn't a cancer.

I think he needs a player he respects well enough to give the ball up and I think Rondo could be that guy. I hardly believe Raymond Felton or JR Smith are those kind of guys.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but if Danny added Melo to Rondo I'd be very excited.

Melo is NOT a cancer, but his skills would probably do more harm than good. Melo needs the ball in his hands all the time and I do not think he will defer ball handling to Rondo. This is why I do not want Melo, but don't get me wrong, if Melo is the best available FA on the market, you have to take him, but only at a fair price. I don't want to overpay him (which he wants).

He is a great scorer and rebounder, and an underrated passer. Can definitely be a lot better if he were to pass a bit more in my honest opinion.

[LarBrd33]

I agree Melo isn't a cancer.

I think he needs a player he respects well enough to give the ball up and I think Rondo could be that guy. I hardly believe Raymond Felton or JR Smith are those kind of guys.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but if Danny added Melo to Rondo I'd be very excited.

Melo is NOT a cancer, but his skills would probably do more harm than good. Melo needs the ball in his hands all the time and I do not think he will defer ball handling to Rondo.

I just don't know how Celtic fans can believe that.  Were you not here pre 2008?  This is all stuff that was said about Pierce... and eventually about KG and Ray.  They couldn't win, because they all needed the ball to be successful.   Pierce was a ballhog.  Ray was a ballhog.  How could it work?

As mentioned by others... if Rondo and Pierce can co-exist... clearly Rondo and Melo could co-exist.

[D.o.s.]

Most overrated player int he last 10 or so years in the NBA. I don't ever see him being the main guy on a championship team. He'll get you into the playoffs and put up points but he's not a winner. Kind of like a modern day Dominique Wilkins in that he's fine for the regular season but can't take you to the promise land.

No one's a winner until they win. You could very easily take this exact post and insert it into a 2010-2011 discussion on LeBron and you'd be showered in TP's.

[Snakehead]

I agree Melo isn't a cancer.

I think he needs a player he respects well enough to give the ball up and I think Rondo could be that guy. I hardly believe Raymond Felton or JR Smith are those kind of guys.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but if Danny added Melo to Rondo I'd be very excited.

Melo is NOT a cancer, but his skills would probably do more harm than good. Melo needs the ball in his hands all the time and I do not think he will defer ball handling to Rondo.

I just don't know how Celtic fans can believe that.  Were you not here pre 2008?  This is all stuff that was said about Pierce... and eventually about KG and Ray.  They couldn't win, because they all needed the ball to be successful.   Pierce was a ballhog.  Ray was a ballhog.  How could it work?

As mentioned by others... if Rondo and Pierce can co-exist... clearly Rondo and Melo could co-exist.

I don't agree with all the Melo is a cancer talk either but at the same time Pierce is just a better and more willing passer throughout his career that would lend you to think he'd work better with other players.

I know you're right, there were doubts about it working and all, but if you just look at the stats.  Most assists Melo has had per season is 3.8 in 06-07.  Pierce: 5.1 in 03-04.

For their career average per season, basically Pierce averages an assist more.  But has had much higher highs and is dragged down overall by some low numbers his first few seasons.

Both have similar attack the rim moves off of pump fakes and that their jump shots set up, but I think the difference is Pierce will look to pass off his drives just way more than Melo will.   Pierce is a playmaker and I don't think anyone would say that about Melo.  He is just a scorer.

There have been times in Pierce's career when he had to basically run an offense as a point forward and things have worked out pretty well and his passing has allowed that to happen.  This has never happened for Melo.

That being said, I do think he's a fit with Rondo... why wouldn't he be?  Rondo would feed a scorer of Melo's caliber all day, just like he fed Pierce.  I just personally don't like the money you'd tie up in Melo to put him on your team, so I'm against it.

[mmmmm]

I fall on the side of thinking that no, Melo is not a cancer.

I also fall on the side of no, I'm not interested in having him on the Celtics.

I don't like the style of basketball that his talent dictates as I don't find it efficient.

And no way no how is he as good as Paul Pierce was.

FWIW, Paul Pierce has scored 1.36 points for every official regular season Field Goal Attempt he has taken in his career.  That's just plain awesome.  During the title season of 2008, it was 1.43 per FGA.

Anthony has scored 1.28 points per FGA in his career.    Very good.   Not Paul Pierce.

In the playoffs, Pierce has scored 1.32 per FGA.  Anthony has score 1.20 per FGA.   Not even close to Paul Pierce.

And this doesn't even begin to account for the points created off assists.  Over their respective careers, Pierce has typically dished out about 25% more assists per minute than Anthony.

Finally, since 2001 (when B-R starts tracking on/off plus/minus), Pierce' net on/off rating is a fantastic +6.8 points per 100 possessions.   Anthony's is +0.9.

"Mr Anthony, you're no Paul Pierce."

[Celtics4ever]

I think it would be a road to nowhere.  He is not a winner in the NBA.  Melo is a tease in terms of winning games and playoffs.    Too many honey nut cheerios taunts for this to ever happen folks.  No D, so we don't need him.

[D.o.s.]

I fall on the side of thinking that no, Melo is not a cancer.

I also fall on the side of no, I'm not interested in having him on the Celtics.

I don't like the style of basketball that his talent dictates as I don't find it efficient.

And no way no how is he as good as Paul Pierce was.

FWIW, Paul Pierce has scored 1.36 points for every official regular season Field Goal Attempt he has taken in his career.  That's just plain awesome.  During the title season of 2008, it was 1.43 per FGA.

Anthony has scored 1.28 points per FGA in his career.    Very good.   Not Paul Pierce.

In the playoffs, Pierce has scored 1.32 per FGA.  Anthony has score 1.20 per FGA.   Not even close to Paul Pierce.

And this doesn't even begin to account for the points created off assists.  Over their respective careers, Pierce has typically dished out about 25% more assists per minute than Anthony.

Finally, since 2001 (when B-R starts tracking on/off plus/minus), Pierce' net on/off rating is a fantastic +6.8 points per 100 possessions.   Anthony's is +0.9.

"Mr Anthony, you're no Paul Pierce."

Why not compare Pierce's numbers from his rookie year 'til 06-07, when he was the same age as Carmelo is now?

Using that scope, Pierce was shooting 1.32 per FGA in the regular season, and 1.36 per FGA in the 37 playoff games he'd managed to play in.

Playing 38 minutes a game, he was averaging just under 4 assists in the regular season and just under 5 in those playoff games (jumping his minutes up to 43). His AST% in the regular season was 19 and 22.6 in the playoffs.

The net +/- stays about the same at 6.4