What do you all think of Melo in green?

[BballTim]

this thread is a big disappointment as far as the fan base goes.

I don't understand how anyone could have watched pierce all these yrs. and then settle for the likes of Anthony.

sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make.

Pierce made the players around him better. every where carmello goes his teams deteriorate.

  Denver was a lottery team when he got there. And what's the alternative to settling for players that aren't Pierce?

[bdm860]

My thoughts on the C’s and Carmelo:

1.    Beggars can’t be choosers.  Boston isn’t a team that can attract the perfect player with no flaws in their game.  Sure he’s not LeBron or Durant, or a younger Paul Pierce even (for those saying Pierce was much better), but what players are that could actually be acquired? (Although at the same time I doubt Melo could actually be acquired).  The non-marquee destinations need to have lower standards for the players they bring in.  You could roll the dice on a lot of losing seasons and still never draft that perfect player (and we all know the C’s have been there many times over the last 20 years), or you can go for a sure thing like Melo.  Sure I wouldn’t trade a top 3 pick this year for Melo if we had it, but I would trade the #8 pick the C’s are slated for now.  Some of you sound like you wouldn’t take 10 cents on the dollar for him, like if I offered you $50 for five $1 scratch off tickets, you’d rather hold on to your scratch off tickets and dream of winning $100.

2.   Melo’s not a cancer, though maybe not the easiest person to build an NBA team around, not as difficult as some are making it to be either.  While not a fan of his game, if the C’s could reasonably acquire him (without trading away all current assets and future picks), I’d gladly take him.  Melo paired with Billups looked pretty good to me, went to the WCF, took the champs to 6 games.  If the Nuggets didn’t trade away Camby for nothing at the start of the season, or had a little more time to pair Billups and Carmelo, or were in the Eastern Conference, there would have been a lot more success for Carmelo, possibly even a ring.  Kind of like Garnett’s TWolves teams…

3.   Pre-Grizzlies Zach Randolph, pre-Kings Chris Webber, pre-Pistons Rasheed Wallace: these are players that were considered cancers by many, guys who would never be a major part of a contender.  But they looked good with a change of scenery and different teammates.  I mean think about Zach Randolph before the Grizzlies, on 4 different teams, never led a team to the playoffs (was playing only 6 and 17mpg when the Blazers made the playoffs with him at age 20 and 21).  From the time he was a full time starter at 22, his teams in Portland won 41, 27, 21, 32 games.  Portland trades him and then goes on to win 41, 54, 50, and 48 games.  The Knicks trade for him and go from 33 to 23 wins.  The Knicks trade him away and go from 23 to 32 wins.  He goes to the Clippers and they actually get worse too going from 23 to 19 wins.  If there ever was a cancer it was him.  Every team he’s ever been on has been worse with him, and gotten better as soon as he left.  He was traded away 3x’s for basically nothing.  Does anyone think he’s a cancer now though?  Look how the right situation changes people’s perceptions of players.  Melo + Rondo + good ownership/management could greatly change people’s perception of Melo.  I know I’d be willing to take that gamble.

[Endless Paradise]

My thoughts on the C’s and Carmelo:

1.    Beggars can’t be choosers.  Boston isn’t a team that can attract the perfect player with no flaws in their game.  Sure he’s not LeBron or Durant, or a younger Paul Pierce even (for those saying Pierce was much better), but what players are that could actually be acquired? (Although at the same time I doubt Melo could actually be acquired).  The non-marquee destinations need to have lower standards for the players they bring in.  You could roll the dice on a lot of losing seasons and still never draft that perfect player (and we all know the C’s have been there many times over the last 20 years), or you can go for a sure thing like Melo.  Sure I wouldn’t trade a top 3 pick this year for Melo if we had it, but I would trade the #8 pick the C’s are slated for now.  Some of you sound like you wouldn’t take 10 cents on the dollar for him, like if I offered you $50 for five $1 scratch off tickets, you’d rather hold on to your scratch off tickets and dream of winning $100.

2.   Melo’s not a cancer, though maybe not the easiest person to build an NBA team around, not as difficult as some are making it to be either.  While not a fan of his game, if the C’s could reasonably acquire him (without trading away all current assets and future picks), I’d gladly take him.  Melo paired with Billups looked pretty good to me, went to the WCF, took the champs to 6 games.  If the Nuggets didn’t trade away Camby for nothing at the start of the season, or had a little more time to pair Billups and Carmelo, or were in the Eastern Conference, there would have been a lot more success for Carmelo, possibly even a ring.  Kind of like Garnett’s TWolves teams…

3.   Pre-Grizzlies Zach Randolph, pre-Kings Chris Webber, pre-Pistons Rasheed Wallace: these are players that were considered cancers by many, guys who would never be a major part of a contender.  But they looked good with a change of scenery and different teammates.  I mean think about Zach Randolph before the Grizzlies, on 4 different teams, never led a team to the playoffs (was playing only 6 and 17mpg when the Blazers made the playoffs with him at age 20 and 21).  From the time he was a full time starter at 22, his teams in Portland won 41, 27, 21, 32 games.  Portland trades him and then goes on to win 41, 54, 50, and 48 games.  The Knicks trade for him and go from 33 to 23 wins.  The Knicks trade him away and go from 23 to 32 wins.  He goes to the Clippers and they actually get worse too going from 23 to 19 wins.  If there ever was a cancer it was him.  Every team he’s ever been on has been worse with him, and gotten better as soon as he left.  He was traded away 3x’s for basically nothing.  Does anyone think he’s a cancer now though?  Look how the right situation changes people’s perceptions of players.  Melo + Rondo + good ownership/management could greatly change people’s perception of Melo.  I know I’d be willing to take that gamble.

Well said. TP

[GreenWarrior]

this thread is a big disappointment as far as the fan base goes.

I don't understand how anyone could have watched pierce all these yrs. and then settle for the likes of Anthony.

sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make.

Pierce made the players around him better. every where carmello goes his teams deteriorate.

  Denver was a lottery team when he got there. And what's the alternative to settling for players that aren't Pierce?

my post was intended to point out that C's fans should expect better from their star player(s).

I'm not sure there is a player in the nba right now that we legitimately have a chance at landing for one or two if there is even a budding superstar laying in wait to build around next to rondo.

I do know Anthony isn't that guy. In a previous post I said if pierce had half the players(early in his career) that Anthony has had his entire career then we would probably never had a chance to land KG. and I will add to that and say because we probably wouldn't have been in that position to do so.

I actually do think Anthony has talent and is a decent defender. so how come his teams fail? and pierce was able to do more with less? I know why, I'm waiting to see someone acknowledge the reason why. I would think Celtics fans would be able to see it.

 

[Snakehead]

this thread is a big disappointment as far as the fan base goes.

I don't understand how anyone could have watched pierce all these yrs. and then settle for the likes of Anthony.

sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make.

Pierce made the players around him better. every where carmello goes his teams deteriorate.

If you're not as good as Pierce, get off the team.  New policy.  Will probably be effective.

[GreenWarrior]

this thread is a big disappointment as far as the fan base goes.

I don't understand how anyone could have watched pierce all these yrs. and then settle for the likes of Anthony.

sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make.

Pierce made the players around him better. every where carmello goes his teams deteriorate.

If you're not as good as Pierce, get off the team.  New policy.  Will probably be effective.

c'mon let's be real here not everybody on the team can be as good as pierce...but I expect our "star" player to be.

[playdream]

No, please Don't
he is a good player, but he plays with no passion, no pride, no leadership, no team ball
just look at what knicks is with him in the years
he will never give you a championship

[GreenWarrior]

No, please Don't
he is a good player, but he plays with no passion, no pride, no leadership, no team ball
just look at what knicks is with him in the years
he will never give you a championship

some times the "eye test" isn't enough. gave you a TP.

[mmmmm]

My thoughts on the C’s and Carmelo:

1.    Beggars can’t be choosers.  Boston isn’t a team that can attract the perfect player with no flaws in their game.  Sure he’s not LeBron or Durant, or a younger Paul Pierce even (for those saying Pierce was much better), but what players are that could actually be acquired? (Although at the same time I doubt Melo could actually be acquired).  The non-marquee destinations need to have lower standards for the players they bring in.  You could roll the dice on a lot of losing seasons and still never draft that perfect player (and we all know the C’s have been there many times over the last 20 years), or you can go for a sure thing like Melo.  Sure I wouldn’t trade a top 3 pick this year for Melo if we had it, but I would trade the #8 pick the C’s are slated for now.  Some of you sound like you wouldn’t take 10 cents on the dollar for him, like if I offered you $50 for five $1 scratch off tickets, you’d rather hold on to your scratch off tickets and dream of winning $100.

2.   Melo’s not a cancer, though maybe not the easiest person to build an NBA team around, not as difficult as some are making it to be either.  While not a fan of his game, if the C’s could reasonably acquire him (without trading away all current assets and future picks), I’d gladly take him.  Melo paired with Billups looked pretty good to me, went to the WCF, took the champs to 6 games.  If the Nuggets didn’t trade away Camby for nothing at the start of the season, or had a little more time to pair Billups and Carmelo, or were in the Eastern Conference, there would have been a lot more success for Carmelo, possibly even a ring.  Kind of like Garnett’s TWolves teams…

3.   Pre-Grizzlies Zach Randolph, pre-Kings Chris Webber, pre-Pistons Rasheed Wallace: these are players that were considered cancers by many, guys who would never be a major part of a contender.  But they looked good with a change of scenery and different teammates.  I mean think about Zach Randolph before the Grizzlies, on 4 different teams, never led a team to the playoffs (was playing only 6 and 17mpg when the Blazers made the playoffs with him at age 20 and 21).  From the time he was a full time starter at 22, his teams in Portland won 41, 27, 21, 32 games.  Portland trades him and then goes on to win 41, 54, 50, and 48 games.  The Knicks trade for him and go from 33 to 23 wins.  The Knicks trade him away and go from 23 to 32 wins.  He goes to the Clippers and they actually get worse too going from 23 to 19 wins.  If there ever was a cancer it was him.  Every team he’s ever been on has been worse with him, and gotten better as soon as he left.  He was traded away 3x’s for basically nothing.  Does anyone think he’s a cancer now though?  Look how the right situation changes people’s perceptions of players.  Melo + Rondo + good ownership/management could greatly change people’s perception of Melo.  I know I’d be willing to take that gamble.

I don't completely disagree with any of your points, especially #2 and #3.

But I disagree that we are 'beggars'.

The Celtics is a franchise with history, one of the strongest fan bases in the league and one of the most financially sound and committed ownership groups.  They have excellent front office and coaching staff.  And they have a very solid variety of rebuilding assets, from young players with upside to competent veterans with tradable contracts and multiple draft picks.   And a point guard who many 'stars' around the league have openly said they want to play with.

The only thing this franchise is 'begging' for is perhaps some patience on the part of some fans.

I'm not going to out-right rule out that Anthony might be a player who it makes sense to acquire.  But I suspect not.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Give me Melo.

One of the best scorers in the game, a very good rebounder and is active on the boards. Id take a superstar any day.

[D.o.s.]

this thread is a big disappointment as far as the fan base goes.

I don't understand how anyone could have watched pierce all these yrs. and then settle for the likes of Anthony.

sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make.

Pierce made the players around him better. every where carmello goes his teams deteriorate.

  Denver was a lottery team when he got there. And what's the alternative to settling for players that aren't Pierce?

my post was intended to point out that C's fans should expect better from their star player(s).

I'm not sure there is a player in the nba right now that we legitimately have a chance at landing for one or two if there is even a budding superstar laying in wait to build around next to rondo.

I do know Anthony isn't that guy. In a previous post I said if pierce had half the players(early in his career) that Anthony has had his entire career then we would probably never had a chance to land KG. and I will add to that and say because we probably wouldn't have been in that position to do so.

I actually do think Anthony has talent and is a decent defender. so how come his teams fail? and pierce was able to do more with less? I know why, I'm waiting to see someone acknowledge the reason why. I would think Celtics fans would be able to see it.

Pierce was able to do more with less?

That's a wonderfully vague term. Unless you're talking about missing the playoffs. To my eye Pierce and Melo are equally accomplished until KG and Ray showed up.

I do think that he's staying on the Knicks, and I think that between CAA's apparent control over the front office and James Dolans' refusal to tolerate anything that looks like competency from his employees that he's never going to win a ring... but I don't think that you can blame a player for an organization's lack of ability.

[GreenWarrior]

this thread is a big disappointment as far as the fan base goes.

I don't understand how anyone could have watched pierce all these yrs. and then settle for the likes of Anthony.

sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make.

Pierce made the players around him better. every where carmello goes his teams deteriorate.

  Denver was a lottery team when he got there. And what's the alternative to settling for players that aren't Pierce?

my post was intended to point out that C's fans should expect better from their star player(s).

I'm not sure there is a player in the nba right now that we legitimately have a chance at landing for one or two if there is even a budding superstar laying in wait to build around next to rondo.

I do know Anthony isn't that guy. In a previous post I said if pierce had half the players(early in his career) that Anthony has had his entire career then we would probably never had a chance to land KG. and I will add to that and say because we probably wouldn't have been in that position to do so.

I actually do think Anthony has talent and is a decent defender. so how come his teams fail? and pierce was able to do more with less? I know why, I'm waiting to see someone acknowledge the reason why. I would think Celtics fans would be able to see it.

Pierce was able to do more with less?

That's a wonderfully vague term. Unless you're talking about missing the playoffs. To my eye Pierce and Melo are equally accomplished until KG and Ray showed up.

not vague at all. Pierce was consistently able to raise his game and the level of his teammates when they did make the playoffs even prior to KG & Ray Allen.

prior to KG, allen & Rondo. pierce was surrounded by scrubs and was able to win a playoff series. just making the playoffs alone was an accomplishment with what he was surrounded with. a lot less talent that Anthony has been surrounded with. yet Anthony - this "great player" that ESPN tells us he is, makes every excuse for why his teams suck and eventually implode/deteriorate/fall apart.   

[D.o.s.]

You really think that making the playoffs in the Eastern Conference in the late 90's to early 00's is more impressive than hitting the playoffs in the last decade of the Western Conference?

[bdm860]

My thoughts on the C’s and Carmelo:

1.    Beggars can’t be choosers.  Boston isn’t a team that can attract the perfect player with no flaws in their game.  Sure he’s not LeBron or Durant, or a younger Paul Pierce even (for those saying Pierce was much better), but what players are that could actually be acquired? (Although at the same time I doubt Melo could actually be acquired).  The non-marquee destinations need to have lower standards for the players they bring in.  You could roll the dice on a lot of losing seasons and still never draft that perfect player (and we all know the C’s have been there many times over the last 20 years), or you can go for a sure thing like Melo.  Sure I wouldn’t trade a top 3 pick this year for Melo if we had it, but I would trade the #8 pick the C’s are slated for now.  Some of you sound like you wouldn’t take 10 cents on the dollar for him, like if I offered you $50 for five $1 scratch off tickets, you’d rather hold on to your scratch off tickets and dream of winning $100.

2.   Melo’s not a cancer, though maybe not the easiest person to build an NBA team around, not as difficult as some are making it to be either.  While not a fan of his game, if the C’s could reasonably acquire him (without trading away all current assets and future picks), I’d gladly take him.  Melo paired with Billups looked pretty good to me, went to the WCF, took the champs to 6 games.  If the Nuggets didn’t trade away Camby for nothing at the start of the season, or had a little more time to pair Billups and Carmelo, or were in the Eastern Conference, there would have been a lot more success for Carmelo, possibly even a ring.  Kind of like Garnett’s TWolves teams…

3.   Pre-Grizzlies Zach Randolph, pre-Kings Chris Webber, pre-Pistons Rasheed Wallace: these are players that were considered cancers by many, guys who would never be a major part of a contender.  But they looked good with a change of scenery and different teammates.  I mean think about Zach Randolph before the Grizzlies, on 4 different teams, never led a team to the playoffs (was playing only 6 and 17mpg when the Blazers made the playoffs with him at age 20 and 21).  From the time he was a full time starter at 22, his teams in Portland won 41, 27, 21, 32 games.  Portland trades him and then goes on to win 41, 54, 50, and 48 games.  The Knicks trade for him and go from 33 to 23 wins.  The Knicks trade him away and go from 23 to 32 wins.  He goes to the Clippers and they actually get worse too going from 23 to 19 wins.  If there ever was a cancer it was him.  Every team he’s ever been on has been worse with him, and gotten better as soon as he left.  He was traded away 3x’s for basically nothing.  Does anyone think he’s a cancer now though?  Look how the right situation changes people’s perceptions of players.  Melo + Rondo + good ownership/management could greatly change people’s perception of Melo.  I know I’d be willing to take that gamble.

I don't completely disagree with any of your points, especially #2 and #3.

But I disagree that we are 'beggars'.

The Celtics is a franchise with history, one of the strongest fan bases in the league and one of the most financially sound and committed ownership groups.  They have excellent front office and coaching staff.  And they have a very solid variety of rebuilding assets, from young players with upside to competent veterans with tradable contracts and multiple draft picks.   And a point guard who many 'stars' around the league have openly said they want to play with.

The only thing this franchise is 'begging' for is perhaps some patience on the part of some fans.

I'm not going to out-right rule out that Anthony might be a player who it makes sense to acquire.  But I suspect not.

Hey, I'm with you, I think the Celtics are a great franchise, but the closest things to flawless players aren't going to come here as free agents or want to come here unless the C's are already contenders.  Paul Pierce wanted to leave.  Garnett didn't want to come here at first.  Didn't Chris Paul and Dwight Howard both say they didn't want to come to Boston and wouldn't re-sign here when the rumors were floating around?

When it comes to acquiring top talent via anything else but the draft, I'd say the C's are a beggar, especially with their current roster.

New York and LA (and a couple of other teams) can wait for the top talent to become available, and try to get them through normal means.  All they have to do is clear cap room and the top players will coming knocking on their door. Teams like the C's, as great as they are, have to take more risks to assemble a great team, they have a harder path to get there.  They may have to take some players with warts first to attract more talent in the future.

I mean look how crappy the Clippers franchise has been considered in the past, how poorly run they were, but players like Kobe, LeBron, Garnett have all been rumored to possibly go there.  Both Chris Paul and Dwight Howard listed the Clips as an acceptable trade destination while saying they didn't want to come to Boston.  San Antonio, great run franchise, but let's see how much superstar talent they attract after Duncan leaves.  That's the situation Boston is in I think, making them a beggar.

But maybe you just don't like the term beggar.  I can live with that. 

[mmmmm]

My thoughts on the C’s and Carmelo:

1.    Beggars can’t be choosers.  Boston isn’t a team that can attract the perfect player with no flaws in their game.  Sure he’s not LeBron or Durant, or a younger Paul Pierce even (for those saying Pierce was much better), but what players are that could actually be acquired? (Although at the same time I doubt Melo could actually be acquired).  The non-marquee destinations need to have lower standards for the players they bring in.  You could roll the dice on a lot of losing seasons and still never draft that perfect player (and we all know the C’s have been there many times over the last 20 years), or you can go for a sure thing like Melo.  Sure I wouldn’t trade a top 3 pick this year for Melo if we had it, but I would trade the #8 pick the C’s are slated for now.  Some of you sound like you wouldn’t take 10 cents on the dollar for him, like if I offered you $50 for five $1 scratch off tickets, you’d rather hold on to your scratch off tickets and dream of winning $100.

2.   Melo’s not a cancer, though maybe not the easiest person to build an NBA team around, not as difficult as some are making it to be either.  While not a fan of his game, if the C’s could reasonably acquire him (without trading away all current assets and future picks), I’d gladly take him.  Melo paired with Billups looked pretty good to me, went to the WCF, took the champs to 6 games.  If the Nuggets didn’t trade away Camby for nothing at the start of the season, or had a little more time to pair Billups and Carmelo, or were in the Eastern Conference, there would have been a lot more success for Carmelo, possibly even a ring.  Kind of like Garnett’s TWolves teams…

3.   Pre-Grizzlies Zach Randolph, pre-Kings Chris Webber, pre-Pistons Rasheed Wallace: these are players that were considered cancers by many, guys who would never be a major part of a contender.  But they looked good with a change of scenery and different teammates.  I mean think about Zach Randolph before the Grizzlies, on 4 different teams, never led a team to the playoffs (was playing only 6 and 17mpg when the Blazers made the playoffs with him at age 20 and 21).  From the time he was a full time starter at 22, his teams in Portland won 41, 27, 21, 32 games.  Portland trades him and then goes on to win 41, 54, 50, and 48 games.  The Knicks trade for him and go from 33 to 23 wins.  The Knicks trade him away and go from 23 to 32 wins.  He goes to the Clippers and they actually get worse too going from 23 to 19 wins.  If there ever was a cancer it was him.  Every team he’s ever been on has been worse with him, and gotten better as soon as he left.  He was traded away 3x’s for basically nothing.  Does anyone think he’s a cancer now though?  Look how the right situation changes people’s perceptions of players.  Melo + Rondo + good ownership/management could greatly change people’s perception of Melo.  I know I’d be willing to take that gamble.

I don't completely disagree with any of your points, especially #2 and #3.

But I disagree that we are 'beggars'.

The Celtics is a franchise with history, one of the strongest fan bases in the league and one of the most financially sound and committed ownership groups.  They have excellent front office and coaching staff.  And they have a very solid variety of rebuilding assets, from young players with upside to competent veterans with tradable contracts and multiple draft picks.   And a point guard who many 'stars' around the league have openly said they want to play with.

The only thing this franchise is 'begging' for is perhaps some patience on the part of some fans.

I'm not going to out-right rule out that Anthony might be a player who it makes sense to acquire.  But I suspect not.

Hey, I'm with you, I think the Celtics are a great franchise, but the closest things to flawless players aren't going to come here as free agents or want to come here unless the C's are already contenders.  Paul Pierce wanted to leave.  Garnett didn't want to come here at first.  Didn't Chris Paul and Dwight Howard both say they didn't want to come to Boston and wouldn't re-sign here when the rumors were floating around?

When it comes to acquiring top talent via anything else but the draft, I'd say the C's are a beggar, especially with their current roster.

New York and LA (and a couple of other teams) can wait for the top talent to become available, and try to get them through normal means.  All they have to do is clear cap room and the top players will coming knocking on their door. Teams like the C's, as great as they are, have to take more risks to assemble a great team, they have a harder path to get there.  They may have to take some players with warts first to attract more talent in the future.

I mean look how crappy the Clippers franchise has been considered in the past, how poorly run they were, but players like Kobe, LeBron, Garnett have all been rumored to possibly go there.  Both Chris Paul and Dwight Howard listed the Clips as an acceptable trade destination while saying they didn't want to come to Boston.  San Antonio, great run franchise, but let's see how much superstar talent they attract after Duncan leaves.  That's the situation Boston is in I think, making them a beggar.

But maybe you just don't like the term beggar.  I can live with that. 

Players almost always want / don't want to go to a particular _situation_.  It almost never has anything to do with the city.

The Celtics have not brought many new, big name outside free agents in in recent years because, frankly, they have not hand any cap space to do so.  But they've had no real problem resigning their own (Bird rights) free agents.   And the other major sports teams in this city most certainly have not had problems signing lots of big name free agents.

The idea that Boston is not attractive to free agents is just mythology with no real foundation.

Money, role on the team, playing time, coaches & teammates are all far more important factors for most players.   

And players only really have 'choice' in sign & trades and free agent signing transactions anyway (only a tiny handful of players have no-trade clauses).

The transactional power of the GM (tradable assets, cap room, money to offer) are thus ultimately the most powerful determinants.  But even they can only act when a player is available that fits within the situation they've created.

When the situation fits the right player, Danny will get him.  I'm pretty confident of that.