Let's End the Tank vs. Non Tank discussions

[aingeforthree]

I'm just sitting here, thinking about the people who pointed at 4-4 and said, "You really think this team is even *capable* of a bottom 10 record?"

We're bad. Whether you wanna call it tanking or not, who cares? The team was constructed to be not very good. To be very not very good.

You posted virtually the same thing at 0-4.

Long way to go to just state 'we're bad'.  You can't do it after every 4 game losing streak or vice versa.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'm just sitting here, thinking about the people who pointed at 4-4 and said, "You really think this team is even *capable* of a bottom 10 record?"

We're bad. Whether you wanna call it tanking or not, who cares? The team was constructed to be not very good. To be very not very good.

Put Bass and Crawford in the bench, put Lee and Sully in the starting unit, play Humphries more, and you'll see how this team is not as bad as we've been playing right now.

Main culprit for our struggles right now, is poor ball movement, which isn't helped with the in-season regression of Crawford as a distributor, and Bradley and Bass playing selfishly in the same unit.

Add to that that Crawford is not a good defender, and at times a lazy defender and Bass as well, and that unit's success is just unsustainable.

With these moves you improve defense, ball movement, and rebounding in particular substantially.

[indeedproceed]

I'm just sitting here, thinking about the people who pointed at 4-4 and said, "You really think this team is even *capable* of a bottom 10 record?"

We're bad. Whether you wanna call it tanking or not, who cares? The team was constructed to be not very good. To be very not very good.

You posted virtually the same thing at 0-4.

Long way to go to just state 'we're bad'.  You can't do it after every 4 game losing streak or vice versa.

I did it after the 4-game winning streak too.

I think you misunderstood me. Here's my argument for staying the course (which is a form of tanking, and yes I do think we're bad enough for a worst 5 record, potentially worst 3. Potentially worst overall):

I did it when we were 0-0.

[indeedproceed]

Rajon Rondo says it all with his eyes:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5NgXnA5nm8

[aingeforthree]

I'm just sitting here, thinking about the people who pointed at 4-4 and said, "You really think this team is even *capable* of a bottom 10 record?"

We're bad. Whether you wanna call it tanking or not, who cares? The team was constructed to be not very good. To be very not very good.

You posted virtually the same thing at 0-4.

Long way to go to just state 'we're bad'.  You can't do it after every 4 game losing streak or vice versa.

I did it after the 4-game winning streak too.

I think you misunderstood me. Here's my argument for staying the course (which is a form of tanking, and yes I do think we're bad enough for a worst 5 record, potentially worst 3. Potentially worst overall):

I did it when we were 0-0.

Tough to be as bad as you state when you're in every game but 2 during a 12 game stretch.

[mmmmm]

Just for what it's worth (not much, given we are only 12 games in), if the season ended today, and all the lottery balls fell in their 'most probable' configuration (which means each team would basically pick according to standings):

1) We would get the 13th (ours) and 20th (ATL's) picks.   
2) Atlanta, meanwhile, with the 5th seed in the East, would get the 6th pick (Brooklyn's).

Wheee!!!!

(Obviously, I expect those things to change as the year progresses).

[indeedproceed]

Just for what it's worth (not much, given we are only 12 games in), if the season ended today, and all the lottery balls fell in their 'most probable' configuration (which means each team would basically pick according to standings):

1) We would get the 13th (ours) and 20th (ATL's) picks.   
2) Atlanta, meanwhile, with the 5th seed in the East, would get the 6th pick (Brooklyn's).

Wheee!!!!

(Obviously, I expect those things to change as the year progresses).

Actually I've got us at 7?: http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/1

[mmmmm]

Just for what it's worth (not much, given we are only 12 games in), if the season ended today, and all the lottery balls fell in their 'most probable' configuration (which means each team would basically pick according to standings):

1) We would get the 13th (ours) and 20th (ATL's) picks.   
2) Atlanta, meanwhile, with the 5th seed in the East, would get the 6th pick (Brooklyn's).

Wheee!!!!

(Obviously, I expect those things to change as the year progresses).

Actually I've got us at 7?: http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/1

I was going by basketball-ref:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2014_standings.html

But looking at it, B-R has us (4-8) ranked 'above' Cleveland (4-7).

So that doesn't sound right.

Edit:

So, using the 'correct' standings (NBA.com):

1) We would pick 7th (ours) and 19th (ATL's)
2) Atlanta would pick 6th (Net's).

Some other notables:

3) The Knicks would pick 5th.
4) The 76ers would pick 15th (dropping from 14th for making the playoffs as the Div winner ) plus 11th (NOP, 'top 5-protected').
5) The Lakers would pick 14th (because of (4)).

Edit: to fix Philadelphia & Lakers.

[LarBrd33]

The bottom line is that we aren't going to purposely lose games... we just flat out stink.  That's partially by design.  A minority of fans are still clinging to the idea that this team has enough talent to be competitive.  As the losses pile up, they will quiet down and there will cease to be any debate on the subject.

Give it a month or two and you aren't going to see tank vs no tank... you'll see wiggins vs parker vs randle. 

In late January if Rondo suits up, the minority might speak up again, but I have a feeling by then it will be too late.

[kozlodoev]

I'm just sitting here, thinking about the people who pointed at 4-4 and said, "You really think this team is even *capable* of a bottom 10 record?"

We're bad. Whether you wanna call it tanking or not, who cares? The team was constructed to be not very good. To be very not very good.

You posted virtually the same thing at 0-4.

Long way to go to just state 'we're bad'.  You can't do it after every 4 game losing streak or vice versa.

I did it after the 4-game winning streak too.

I think you misunderstood me. Here's my argument for staying the course (which is a form of tanking, and yes I do think we're bad enough for a worst 5 record, potentially worst 3. Potentially worst overall):

I did it when we were 0-0.

We played fine during the streak. Some of the good things I saw during it should have been sustainable. Except the team  has completely imploded since.

[Celtics18]

Just for what it's worth (not much, given we are only 12 games in), if the season ended today, and all the lottery balls fell in their 'most probable' configuration (which means each team would basically pick according to standings):

1) We would get the 13th (ours) and 20th (ATL's) picks.   
2) Atlanta, meanwhile, with the 5th seed in the East, would get the 6th pick (Brooklyn's).

Wheee!!!!

(Obviously, I expect those things to change as the year progresses).

Actually I've got us at 7?: http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/1

One game behind Detroit and Orlando who are tied for the eighth best record in the East.

Personally, I don't think the discussion is over.  Depending on when Rondo returns and how quickly he can return to form, I still think we have a reasonable shot at being an Eastern conference playoff team. 

[Celtics18]

The bottom line is that we aren't going to purposely lose games... we just flat out stink.  That's partially by design.  A minority of fans are still clinging to the idea that this team has enough talent to be competitive. As the losses pile up, they will quiet down and there will cease to be any debate on the subject.

Give it a month or two and you aren't going to see tank vs no tank... you'll see wiggins vs parker vs randle. 

In late January if Rondo suits up, the minority might speak up again, but I have a feeling by then it will be too late.

Guilty as charged. 

[aingeforthree]

The bottom line is that we aren't going to purposely lose games... we just flat out stink.  That's partially by design.  A minority of fans are still clinging to the idea that this team has enough talent to be competitive.  As the losses pile up, they will quiet down and there will cease to be any debate on the subject.

Give it a month or two and you aren't going to see tank vs no tank... you'll see wiggins vs parker vs randle. 

In late January if Rondo suits up, the minority might speak up again, but I have a feeling by then it will be too late.

It's not that I'm clinging to any idea, it's just that I believe the C's aren't as bad as IndeedProceed states.  I don't think they're in the running for Parker, Wiggins, or Randle.

A lot happens during the year, and it doesn't generally start happening in November.  Add on Rondo and who knows just where it ultimately sits.

For all I know, you and IndeedProceed were telling us how a first round exit was coming a couple years back when they sat at 15-17.  Next thing you know, they're sitting in the Eastern Conference Finals.

So bottom line, a lot can happen between now and the draft.  If you're making me take a wild guess, I'd say the pick is somewhere in the 10-15 range.  Not top 3.

[indeedproceed]

For all I know, you and IndeedProceed were telling us how a first round exit was coming a couple years back when they sat at 15-17.  Next thing you know, they're sitting in the Eastern Conference Finals.

What does your own ignorance regarding what I've said in the past have to do with anything?

[mmmmm]

The bottom line is that we aren't going to purposely lose games... we just flat out stink.  That's partially by design.  A minority of fans are still clinging to the idea that this team has enough talent to be competitive.  As the losses pile up, they will quiet down and there will cease to be any debate on the subject.

Give it a month or two and you aren't going to see tank vs no tank... you'll see wiggins vs parker vs randle. 

In late January if Rondo suits up, the minority might speak up again, but I have a feeling by then it will be too late.

Maybe.

It's a long season.

This month is brutal.  I still put 6 wins by the end of November as my 'optimistic' mark.  That still looks like a tough bar to achieve, given the current road trip, but not impossible.   December looks easier (far more home games) and then January looks absolutely brutal.

On one hand, by late January, our record could look really, really bad.  And the temptation to fold up tents at that point will almost certainly be really, really strong.

But if they don't, the fact is, Feb, March & April are much, much easier.   There are a lot of potentially winnable games during that stretch.   

If they don't 'give up' after the gauntlet of January, this team still could have a shot at around 36 wins.   Which, pathetic as it might seem, may end up being enough to squeeze into the playoffs.

It's still hard to get a total read on what Danny and Brad are trying to do with this team.

We looked through the first 8-9 games like they were trying to win games.  The last couple of games, though, the mess that we are trying to pass off as an offense is ridiculous.   If it's just another 'experiment', then who knows?  If, however, that's how we actually intend to try to score points?  Forget it.  Tank city.