Rondo update from Ainge...Mid December return at earliest. Preaching 'caution'.

[lightspeed5]

read closer. ainge says mid-december is the earliest that rondo can be considered week-to-week. he wont even look at him day-to-day in december.

[TheLegendaryClub]

lol ok.  I'm done.  This right here is all the proof I need to know that we're tanking for sure (and rightfully so).  Thanks for clearing that up, Danny.  You're the best.

I'm not sure I understand this logic. How is Rondo's average-length recovery proof of tanking? It's not like Rondo could be on the floor right now and Ainge is sitting him intentionally to lose games. A year is pretty normal recovery for this injury, and Danny's right--you don't want to rush him back and risk compounding the injury. Leon Powe comes to mind.

I agree that no Rondo means we're in for a mediocre season, but it doesn't mean we're intentionally throwing games, either.

[BASS_THUMPER]

if he is not 100%
let him ride the bench

give towels and water
to the ballas...etc etc...


twirl the towel to get the crowd hype..

those things~

*sippin*

[Redz]

The 4 game win streak peaked my curiosity.  I miss seeing Rondo play and I'd like to see what he has in him in the role of being a team's best player.

Come on back.

[chambers]

just because Rondo isn't coming back yet doesn't mean we are tanking...

this team is just below 50% mark, our 4 game win streak included a win over Miami. This team can continue to grow without Rondo.

Rondo is already a proven player, so until he comes back, we can develop some players.

When Rondo comes back, he can only help make them better

It's true that it doesn't mean we are tanking. But if we are tanking from a management perspective, it helps our cause doesn't it?

Also remember that in our 4 game winning streak we beat the Magic twice and Utah. Both easily bottom 4 teams. We also shot 50% from the field and 60% from three land to beat Miami when they handed us the game as they were walking to the locker room.

Oh and we just got hosed by the Bobcats.
We are going to be bad- but that doesn't mean the players aren't trying to win. They are fighting and scrapping pretty nicely, they just lack the overall talent at every position. (until our point guard comes back).
Should this team be expected to win more than 1 in every 3 games? I doubt it.

[LarBrd33]

Late-Jan early Feb is when I expect him to come back.  There needs to be enough sample size for him to enter trade discussions during the Feb 20th trade deadline.  A Jan 26th return at home vs Brooklyn makes the most sense.   He gets to play during KG/Pierce's big return... and it would give him exactly 10 games to play for the Celtics before we trade him at the deadline.  Should be enough time for him to shake off the rust and prove his trade value.

[BballTim]

Late-Jan early Feb is when I expect him to come back.  There needs to be enough sample size for him to enter trade discussions during the Feb 20th trade deadline.  A Jan 26th return at home vs Brooklyn makes the most sense.   He gets to play during KG/Pierce's big return... and it would give him exactly 10 games to play for the Celtics before we trade him at the deadline.  Should be enough time for him to shake off the rust and prove his trade value.

  So after countless posts about how poorly Rondo will play when he eventually comes back from his knee surgery you've now decided that he'll play well enough from day 1 to restore his trade value within 2 weeks of stepping onto a court?

[LarBrd33]

Late-Jan early Feb is when I expect him to come back.  There needs to be enough sample size for him to enter trade discussions during the Feb 20th trade deadline.  A Jan 26th return at home vs Brooklyn makes the most sense.   He gets to play during KG/Pierce's big return... and it would give him exactly 10 games to play for the Celtics before we trade him at the deadline.  Should be enough time for him to shake off the rust and prove his trade value.

  So after countless posts about how poorly Rondo will play when he eventually comes back from his knee surgery you've now decided that he'll play well enough from day 1 to restore his trade value within 2 weeks of stepping onto a court?

Presuming he's 100% when he comes back he'll probably be about the same.  About 13 points, 9 assists, 5 rebounds, 2 steals.  He's a pretty good player.  Top 10 PG.  I wonder how he'll adjust to not controlling the ball 100% of the time.  I wonder how he'll adjust to not having elite players around him drawing attention.  Wouldn't be surprised to see his FG% drop from his career 48%/24%/62% averages.  WOudln't be surprised to see his turnovers go up.  Wouldn't be surprised to see his assists go down.

I joke sometimes that it could be a career ending injury, but I don't seriously expect that.  Yes, there's always the chance he comes back and plays like complete crap... like Derrick Rose right now.  But if we sit him out until January, get him 100% and give him 10 games, it might be enough to lure some expiring contracts and an asset or two.

[BballTim]

Late-Jan early Feb is when I expect him to come back.  There needs to be enough sample size for him to enter trade discussions during the Feb 20th trade deadline.  A Jan 26th return at home vs Brooklyn makes the most sense.   He gets to play during KG/Pierce's big return... and it would give him exactly 10 games to play for the Celtics before we trade him at the deadline.  Should be enough time for him to shake off the rust and prove his trade value.

  So after countless posts about how poorly Rondo will play when he eventually comes back from his knee surgery you've now decided that he'll play well enough from day 1 to restore his trade value within 2 weeks of stepping onto a court?

Presuming he's 100% when he comes back he'll probably be about the same.  About 13 points, 9 assists, 5 rebounds, 2 steals.  He's a pretty good player.  Top 10 PG.  I wonder how he'll adjust to not controlling the ball 100% of the time.  I wonder how he'll adjust to not having elite players around him drawing attention.  Wouldn't be surprised to see his FG% drop from his career 48%/24%/62% averages.  WOudln't be surprised to see his turnovers go up.  Wouldn't be surprised to see his assists go down.

I joke sometimes that it could be a career ending injury, but I don't seriously expect that.  Yes, there's always the chance he comes back and plays like complete crap... like Derrick Rose right now.  But if we sit him out until January, get him 100% and give him 10 games, it might be enough to lure some expiring contracts and an asset or two.

  Rondo adjusted pretty well to not having elite players around him when it happened, somewhat gradually starting 3-4 years ago. The team's had plenty of ups and down over the last few years and gone through some stretches of poor offensive play but whenever Rondo's been healthy he's put up good numbers. Expecting his numbers to drop when he's carrying more of the load offensively is probably just wishful thinking on your part.

[moiso]

Late-Jan early Feb is when I expect him to come back.  There needs to be enough sample size for him to enter trade discussions during the Feb 20th trade deadline.  A Jan 26th return at home vs Brooklyn makes the most sense.   He gets to play during KG/Pierce's big return... and it would give him exactly 10 games to play for the Celtics before we trade him at the deadline.  Should be enough time for him to shake off the rust and prove his trade value.

  So after countless posts about how poorly Rondo will play when he eventually comes back from his knee surgery you've now decided that he'll play well enough from day 1 to restore his trade value within 2 weeks of stepping onto a court?

Presuming he's 100% when he comes back he'll probably be about the same.  About 13 points, 9 assists, 5 rebounds, 2 steals.  He's a pretty good player.  Top 10 PG.  I wonder how he'll adjust to not controlling the ball 100% of the time.  I wonder how he'll adjust to not having elite players around him drawing attention.  Wouldn't be surprised to see his FG% drop from his career 48%/24%/62% averages.  WOudln't be surprised to see his turnovers go up.  Wouldn't be surprised to see his assists go down.

I joke sometimes that it could be a career ending injury, but I don't seriously expect that.  Yes, there's always the chance he comes back and plays like complete crap... like Derrick Rose right now.  But if we sit him out until January, get him 100% and give him 10 games, it might be enough to lure some expiring contracts and an asset or two.

I wouldn't be surprised to see his scoring go up either.  And we don't really know if he will be handling the ball less than before.  Even though Stevens seems to prefer ball movement, let's see what happens.  Rondo may think he deserves an even bigger part of the offense.

[Celtics4ever]

Rondo adjusted pretty well to not having elite players around him when it happened, somewhat gradually starting 3-4 years ago. The team's had plenty of ups and down over the last few years and gone through some stretches of poor offensive play but whenever Rondo's been healthy he's put up good numbers. Expecting his numbers to drop when he's carrying more of the load offensively is probably just wishful thinking on your part.

TP I agree, not mention we are playing his tempo now.   I think he will thrive in the running game.

I wouldn't be surprised to see his scoring go up either.  And we don't really know if he will be handling the ball less than before.  Even though Stevens seems to prefer ball movement, let's see what happens.  Rondo may think he deserves an even bigger part of the offense.

With our PG woes (despite a heroic effort from Crawford) he will be handling the ball plenty.   I think Stevens will adapt to his personel and use their strengths and hide their weaknesses.   I do not think he is a system coach that blindly clings to his system.   Good coaches coach to their strengths and minimize their weaknesses.  System coaches coach their system.  Pitino was a system guy, great when they guys who can fit it and not so great when not.   I have no proof on Stevens but I would bet money this is what happens after watching Butler the last few years.

[cman88]

Can someone explain to me why we want to trade rondo again? Aren't we closer to contending if we keep our all-star pg and draft what we hope is an all starcalibar player to put next to him

Rather than trading rondo, drafting what we hope is an all star caliber player and then Hoping to find another all-star caliber player to put next to him?

Or am I wrong thinking its easier to rebuild if you already have a building block player( same reason we kept pierce)

[chambers]

Late-Jan early Feb is when I expect him to come back.  There needs to be enough sample size for him to enter trade discussions during the Feb 20th trade deadline.  A Jan 26th return at home vs Brooklyn makes the most sense.   He gets to play during KG/Pierce's big return... and it would give him exactly 10 games to play for the Celtics before we trade him at the deadline.  Should be enough time for him to shake off the rust and prove his trade value.

  So after countless posts about how poorly Rondo will play when he eventually comes back from his knee surgery you've now decided that he'll play well enough from day 1 to restore his trade value within 2 weeks of stepping onto a court?

Presuming he's 100% when he comes back he'll probably be about the same.  About 13 points, 9 assists, 5 rebounds, 2 steals.  He's a pretty good player.  Top 10 PG.  I wonder how he'll adjust to not controlling the ball 100% of the time.  I wonder how he'll adjust to not having elite players around him drawing attention.  Wouldn't be surprised to see his FG% drop from his career 48%/24%/62% averages.  WOudln't be surprised to see his turnovers go up.  Wouldn't be surprised to see his assists go down.

I joke sometimes that it could be a career ending injury, but I don't seriously expect that.  Yes, there's always the chance he comes back and plays like complete crap... like Derrick Rose right now.  But if we sit him out until January, get him 100% and give him 10 games, it might be enough to lure some expiring contracts and an asset or two.

  Rondo adjusted pretty well to not having elite players around him when it happened, somewhat gradually starting 3-4 years ago. The team's had plenty of ups and down over the last few years and gone through some stretches of poor offensive play but whenever Rondo's been healthy he's put up good numbers. Expecting his numbers to drop when he's carrying more of the load offensively is probably just wishful thinking on your part.

I don't think KG and Pierce (or Ray) really ever dropped their status as elite shooters from the field- particularly jumpshooters. He had the greatest 3 point shooter of all time, arguably the greatest jumpshooting power forward of all time, and one of the best jumpshooters in the NBA in Pierce.

Their excellent shooting goes hand in hand with his excellent passing. I'm just not sure if his excellent passes get converted into assists on such a terrible shooting team.

That being said, Stephens may run an offense that revolves around back door cuts and fast breaks. I just can't see us getting high percentage shots against NBA starting caliber bigs- particularly when there are two bigs to score against in the paint.

My biggest concern is the spacing he used to have with Ray, Pierce, KG and Terry on either side of him as he penetrated.
Now he's got Green and Avery Bradley and Kelly Olynyk.
Just not quite the same.
We shall see though- it's exciting to think about him returning and possibly being a way better shooter. It's also slightly worrisome to think how he'll have far less efficient shooters surrounding him and less room to drive to the hole because of a lack of spacing.
Could be ugly, also the way he throws himself around and the increased physical contact he'll get inside due to the lack of spacing.

We shall see.

[moiso]

Rondo adjusted pretty well to not having elite players around him when it happened, somewhat gradually starting 3-4 years ago. The team's had plenty of ups and down over the last few years and gone through some stretches of poor offensive play but whenever Rondo's been healthy he's put up good numbers. Expecting his numbers to drop when he's carrying more of the load offensively is probably just wishful thinking on your part.

TP I agree, not mention we are playing his tempo now.   I think he will thrive in the running game.

I wouldn't be surprised to see his scoring go up either.  And we don't really know if he will be handling the ball less than before.  Even though Stevens seems to prefer ball movement, let's see what happens.  Rondo may think he deserves an even bigger part of the offense.

With our PG woes (despite a heroic effort from Crawford) he will be handling the ball plenty.   I think Stevens will adapt to his personel and use their strengths and hide their weaknesses.   I do not think he is a system coach that blindly clings to his system.   Good coaches coach to their strengths and minimize their weaknesses.  System coaches coach their system.  Pitino was a system guy, great when they guys who can fit it and not so great when not.   I have no proof on Stevens but I would bet money this is what happens after watching Butler the last few years.

Rondo is great in transition but I don't know if I'd call it his tempo.  He seemed to generally prefer the slow down deliberate half court game.  And it wasn't just because he had some old teammates.  He played that way a lot of times even when playing with younger athletic teammates.  I hope he does push the pace.  When is aggressive like that, as he has been in many playoff series, he is filthy.

[BballTim]

Late-Jan early Feb is when I expect him to come back.  There needs to be enough sample size for him to enter trade discussions during the Feb 20th trade deadline.  A Jan 26th return at home vs Brooklyn makes the most sense.   He gets to play during KG/Pierce's big return... and it would give him exactly 10 games to play for the Celtics before we trade him at the deadline.  Should be enough time for him to shake off the rust and prove his trade value.

  So after countless posts about how poorly Rondo will play when he eventually comes back from his knee surgery you've now decided that he'll play well enough from day 1 to restore his trade value within 2 weeks of stepping onto a court?

Presuming he's 100% when he comes back he'll probably be about the same.  About 13 points, 9 assists, 5 rebounds, 2 steals.  He's a pretty good player.  Top 10 PG.  I wonder how he'll adjust to not controlling the ball 100% of the time.  I wonder how he'll adjust to not having elite players around him drawing attention.  Wouldn't be surprised to see his FG% drop from his career 48%/24%/62% averages.  WOudln't be surprised to see his turnovers go up.  Wouldn't be surprised to see his assists go down.

I joke sometimes that it could be a career ending injury, but I don't seriously expect that.  Yes, there's always the chance he comes back and plays like complete crap... like Derrick Rose right now.  But if we sit him out until January, get him 100% and give him 10 games, it might be enough to lure some expiring contracts and an asset or two.

  Rondo adjusted pretty well to not having elite players around him when it happened, somewhat gradually starting 3-4 years ago. The team's had plenty of ups and down over the last few years and gone through some stretches of poor offensive play but whenever Rondo's been healthy he's put up good numbers. Expecting his numbers to drop when he's carrying more of the load offensively is probably just wishful thinking on your part.

I don't think KG and Pierce (or Ray) really ever dropped their status as elite shooters from the field- particularly jumpshooters. He had the greatest 3 point shooter of all time, arguably the greatest jumpshooting power forward of all time, and one of the best jumpshooters in the NBA in Pierce.

Their excellent shooting goes hand in hand with his excellent passing. I'm just not sure if his excellent passes get converted into assists on such a terrible shooting team.

That being said, Stephens may run an offense that revolves around back door cuts and fast breaks. I just can't see us getting high percentage shots against NBA starting caliber bigs- particularly when there are two bigs to score against in the paint.

My biggest concern is the spacing he used to have with Ray, Pierce, KG and Terry on either side of him as he penetrated.
Now he's got Green and Avery Bradley and Kelly Olynyk.
Just not quite the same.
We shall see though- it's exciting to think about him returning and possibly being a way better shooter. It's also slightly worrisome to think how he'll have far less efficient shooters surrounding him and less room to drive to the hole because of a lack of spacing.
Could be ugly, also the way he throws himself around and the increased physical contact he'll get inside due to the lack of spacing.

We shall see.

  I don't think Green's a greatly worse jump shooter than PP was the last year or two. I don't think swapping Ray for Bradley caused huge spacing issues. KG makes a difference but if he's playing with Sully he'll have his first low post scorer since Shaq. It might take a little while to click, but I don't think our offense is horribly worse than last year's now, so it's possible people are overestimating the differences.