Ray Allen: Kevin and Paul still don't speak to me

[bobbyv]

Ray should look up the term "false equivalence"

[fitzhickey]

Ray should look up the term "false equivalence"

TP for the Ray burn/

[BASS_THUMPER]

they are tied to that banner
whatever the problem is between them
its not bigger than winning a ring together
they really need to squash that

[Drucci]

"He doesn’t understand" - that's the crux of it. Ray Allen still doesn't understand, after a year and a half, how he betrayed Pierce & KG, and Celtics fans everywhere.

Too bad for you Mr. Allen, you threw away what could've and should've been remembered as a special group of people to the toilet, now we'll have to deal with the betrayal drama for the rest of our lives when we recall our 2008 Championship. Thanks for the memories. But hey, now at least you can reminiscence about winning another one with your new pa'l Chris Bosh.

That's the underrated part of Ray's departure : the fact that it spoils, to me, the 2008 championship.

Of course the Celtics remain champions and these are great memories but the games I used to enjoy re-watching, while remembering the intensity of the live moment and stakes, are now "buried" : I can't watch them anymore because seeing Ray reminds me that he ruined these moments by bolting to Miami. Game 4 of the 2008 NBA Finals and his final layup, game 2 of the 2010 Finals and his record 3's... it doesn't help that Ray was my favorite player when he was with Boston.

I understand that he felt like the "odd man out" because of the failed Mayo trade but still, it says a lot about a player's competitiveness when he joins the team that just beat him in a hard fought ECF game 7 one month before free-agency.

I agree with KG and Pierce on that one.

[Snakehead]

"He doesn’t understand" - that's the crux of it. Ray Allen still doesn't understand, after a year and a half, how he betrayed Pierce & KG, and Celtics fans everywhere.

Too bad for you Mr. Allen, you threw away what could've and should've been remembered as a special group of people to the toilet, now we'll have to deal with the betrayal drama for the rest of our lives when we recall our 2008 Championship. Thanks for the memories. But hey, now at least you can reminiscence about winning another one with your new pa'l Chris Bosh.

That's the underrated part of Ray's departure : the fact that it spoils, to me, the 2008 championship.

Of course the Celtics remain champions and these are great memories but the games I used to enjoy re-watching, while remembering the intensity of the live moment and stakes, are now "buried" : I can't watch them anymore because seeing Ray reminds me that he ruined these moments by bolting to Miami. Game 4 of the 2008 NBA Finals and his final layup, game 2 of the 2010 Finals and his record 3's... it doesn't help that Ray was my favorite player when he was with Boston.

I understand that he felt like the "odd man out" because of the failed Mayo trade but still, it says a lot about a player's competitiveness when he joins the team that just beat him in a hard fought ECF game 7 one month before free-agency.

I agree with KG and Pierce on that one.

TP.

I don't hate Ray or anything, but I know what you mean.  I would really have had no issue with it if he hadn't gone to Miami.  It was obviously a pretty strange move to a real competitor and it isn't as if there aren't other good teams he could have gone to.

[LooseCannon]

I'm waiting for Ray Allen to go full-blown emo and say he reached out to Jonathan Martin because they have a lot in common.

[TheTruthFot18]

Good. I respect KG and Pierce for staying true to their cause.

[mgent]

What he means by they were in the same situation is Ainge made it clear to all 3 of them that they were getting traded.  How they left was completely different, but can anybody dispute that they weren't all in the same situation?

Before you inevitably bash Ray in this thread, think about what you would do if given the choice between the possibility of being traded to a lottery team and the guarantee of being on a title-contender.  I personally would take the risk and stay on the Celtics for one last chance at a ring, but I admit my opinion means nothing because I don't have the experience of either situation.

Ray has done absolutely everything he could've done to show remorse and that it was literally "just business, not personal."  He went as far as to tap KG on the shoulder.  There is one thing EVERY basketball player learns as early as the playground, and that's to leave it on the court.  You can hate somebody's guts in the game, but the second the game ends you shake hands and you go back to being best friends.  Life is completely separate from basketball.  One day those 3 will talk again, even if it's not til after KG and Paul retire.

I must've watched an entirely different sequence of events.

Ray was offered a no-trade clause. We were actively trying bring Ray back to reload for another run, he chose half the money to go to the team we were trying to beat.

A year later, Danny decided to blow it up and allowed KG and Paul the opportunity to play for a ring. Together at that.

To me, those are two distinctdistinctly different situations with entirely different circumstances.

People can knock Danny and management all they want, but the facts are that they had no obligation to trade Paul and KG to the same team. They could've traded Paul anywhere without consulting him. They didn't and that was a choice. Obviously,  there is some respect and loyalty there or Paul could've ended up on a team like Cleveland, Washington, or Milwaukee simply vying for a playoff berth instead of competing for a championship.

And as far as the "it's business, it's not personal" - you have to think they would've talked to Ray by now if that was true.  I think there were more issues behind the scenes than us fans will ever know about. One thing that constantly comes to mind whenever the Ray Allen issue comes up is how Doc claimed at the time that it was Ray's idea for Avery to stay in the starting lineup but it came out after he left that Ray was really unhappy coming off the bench.

Like I said, those were the events of him leaving, not the situation he was in prior to that.  Once you seriously try to trade someone who you promised was going to stick around, you can't go back on that.  Kevin and Paul weren't in that situation until years later when the Clippers talks started.  At that point everything Paul said about playing his whole career in Boston was out the window.  He, KG, and Doc all openly admit they didn't want to be part of a rebuilding.

I'm mad at Ray for the way he left too, KG and Paul have a right to show him just how mad they are.  But once basketball is no longer the most important thing in their lives they'll come back to reality.  It's like if your best friend is captain and he picks somebody else before you.  You feel hurt and think your personal bond should be more important, but you can't really hold it against them after the game is over because it's human nature to make yourself as competitive as possible.

[mgent]

What he means by they were in the same situation is Ainge made it clear to all 3 of them that they were getting traded.  How they left was completely different, but can anybody dispute that they weren't all in the same situation?

Before you inevitably bash Ray in this thread, think about what you would do if given the choice between the possibility of being traded to a lottery team and the guarantee of being on a title-contender.  I personally would take the risk and stay on the Celtics for one last chance at a ring, but I admit my opinion means nothing because I don't have the experience of either situation.

Ray has done absolutely everything he could've done to show remorse and that it was literally "just business, not personal."  He went as far as to tap KG on the shoulder.  There is one thing EVERY basketball player learns as early as the playground, and that's to leave it on the court.  You can hate somebody's guts in the game, but the second the game ends you shake hands and you go back to being best friends.  Life is completely separate from basketball.  One day those 3 will talk again, even if it's not til after KG and Paul retire.

I'd agree with that.

Ray Allen was being dangled in trade talks for almost his entire tenure as a Celtic. I don't hold any ill-will against him as a person for making the decision he made to go to Miami in free agency. It's the same freedom of employment that we all enjoy--if you don't like your job, you are well within your rights to find one that suits you better.

As a Celtics fan, though, I root for him to fail at every basketball related opportunity.

I think it's a fallacy and a joke to compare their jobs (or any entertainment job for that matter) to an average joe's job.  Yea, they should be able to enjoy the "freedom" we all enjoy as far as our work goes but their's goes beyond "just a job."  When what you do for a living is displayed in front of the masses and the sole purpose of what you do is to draw all types of reaction from those masses, then you owe it to them and to what you do to do the right thing. 

What he does has a direct impact on people's emotion and that's why people take it personal when role models or people in this line of work messes up.  When you don't do the right thing, you deserve to be criticized for it.  It's an entertainment business, people decides. 

There's this weird thing called courtesy and integrity and Ray crossed it big time here.

He was dangled in trade's talk through his tenure in Boston.  But so was everyone else and that is a fact.  If he wants to know about being dangled in the trade talk, he should ask his nemesis Rondo.  Everyone was on the block.  That is a very weak excuse if you ask me

Bill Russell whole-heartily disagrees with everything you just said.  The most successful athlete of all time considers his sport just something he did to make a living, and doesn't think it reflects him at all as a person.

THAT'S what being a Celtic is all about, straight from the horse's mouth.  What you do in the business has nothing to do with who you are in real life.  This same Celtic culture is what forced Ainge to suspend Sullinger.  Things you do in real life are simply more important.

[CelticG1]

Do KG and Pierce know how upset Ray is?

They're honestly probably oblivious. They need to give that guy a hug or something, I feel bad for him

[D.o.s.]

Do KG and Pierce know how upset Ray is?

They're honestly probably oblivious. They need to give that guy a hug or something, I feel bad for him

Part of the reason I'm so attached to Paul and KG is owed to the fact that they're part of the last vanguard of players I really associate with trash talking and disliking your opponent. I don't see much of that coming from guys who've been drafted in the last seven or eight years--save Rondo and Rose.

So, no, I'm sure they know. And I'm sure they're doing it on purpose.

And that's awesome.

[fairweatherfan]

Do KG and Pierce know how upset Ray is?

They're honestly probably oblivious. They need to give that guy a hug or something, I feel bad for him

Part of the reason I'm so attached to Paul and KG is owed to the fact that they're part of the last vanguard of players I really associate with trash talking and disliking your opponent. I don't see much of that coming from guys who've been drafted in the last seven or eight years--save Rondo and Rose.

So, no, I'm sure they know. And I'm sure they're doing it on purpose.

And that's awesome.

Yeah, I hope they bury the hatchet once they're all retired, maybe come together in 2018 for a 10-year anniversary ceremony or something.

...but while they're all playing I'm glad KG and PP haven't let it go.

[Celtics18]

To me it's a fairly simple equation;  Paul and KG don't like the Miami Heat.  Ray is a member of the Miami Heat.  Ergo, they don't like Ray.  It seems reasonable and straight forward to me. 

Like someone mentioned before, it's an old-school attitude.  I like it. 

[Interceptor]

Good. Feel the burn, Allen. 

This poster is glad that not even two guys who went to war with Allen have forgiven him for his choice. It's something that validates the feelings of the fans. I'm sure that they will bury the hatchet eventually, since time has a way of bringing these things into perspective, and maybe by then Allen will realize what the difference was.

[JOMVP]

I feel bad for Ray only in the sense that he is so oblivious as to why they wouldnt be speaking to him.

Joining the Heat after a grueling 7 game series with them was the problem. He should go read up on Benedict Arnold and realize the exact same thing can be applied to him.

The difference between Paul, KG, and Ray is that Ray takes basketball as simply business, and him winning titles wasn't about a team accomplishment, it was about a selfish, egotistical look at his own career and what it will do for his legacy. Paul and KG take the game of basketball very personally and want to win another title for eachother and for their teammates. They would have buried themselves on the Celtics if Danny Ainge would allowed it,

At the end of it all, though, no one will remember Ray Allen as apart of the Heat titles. But they will remember him as a part of the Celtics title and thats still important.