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Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #90 on: November 03, 2013, 10:21:29 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

  I think Wade is probably the only top 5 player drafted since Duncan that's been a key piece of a championship for the team that drafted him. You say every team has drafted a top 5 player and added a top 5-10 player to support him. In addition to Detroit and Dallas none of the Kobe or Shaq led teams or the Celts won like that.

I said drafted a top 5-10 player, not a pick. You could change the word from player to pick and make it top 10. Let's include finals teams over the last 20 seasons.
Pierce (top 5 -10 player and pick) added KG and Ray both top 10 picks
Kobe (top 5-10 player) (if he went to college he'd probably be top 10 instead of 13th it's fair to say?) joined by Shaq, then joined by Gasol and Bynum. Not sure where Gasol + Bynum were drafted but Bynum was high school and Gasol was euro.
Wade (top 5-10 player and pick) Shaq and then added Lebron both top 10 picks and players
Lebron(top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with cavs
Shaq (top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with Orlando and had penny hardaway (top 5-10 player and pick)join via draft ( in which magic gave up webber lawl.
Duncan (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted joining D Rob. Then joned by Parker + ginobli both euro.
Howard (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Orlando not much help
Dirk(top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Mavs not much help except defensive player of the year Tyson chandler (top 5 pick)
Durant (top 5-10 player and pick)  joined by Westbrook and harden via draft (Top 5-10 picks)

Seeing a pattern?
Sorry spelling is bad and can't be bothered looking up draft positions of Bynum/Gasol I'm on ipad, complete torture to type.

  That's well under 1 player per draft. Also, if you're talking top 5-10 player, not draft position, you should throw Rondo in there since he's a top 5-10 player in the postseason when he's healthy (and was in 2010 when we got to the finals).

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #91 on: November 03, 2013, 10:24:25 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

  I think Wade is probably the only top 5 player drafted since Duncan that's been a key piece of a championship for the team that drafted him. You say every team has drafted a top 5 player and added a top 5-10 player to support him. In addition to Detroit and Dallas none of the Kobe or Shaq led teams or the Celts won like that.

I said drafted a top 5-10 player, not a pick. You could change the word from player to pick and make it top 10. Let's include finals teams over the last 20 seasons.
Pierce (top 5 -10 player and pick) added KG and Ray both top 10 picks
Kobe (top 5-10 player) (if he went to college he'd probably be top 10 instead of 13th it's fair to say?) joined by Shaq, then joined by Gasol and Bynum. Not sure where Gasol + Bynum were drafted but Bynum was high school and Gasol was euro.
Wade (top 5-10 player and pick) Shaq and then added Lebron both top 10 picks and players
Lebron(top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with cavs
Shaq (top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with Orlando and had penny hardaway (top 5-10 player and pick)join via draft ( in which magic gave up webber lawl.
Duncan (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted joining D Rob. Then joned by Parker + ginobli both euro.
Howard (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Orlando not much help
Dirk(top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Mavs not much help except defensive player of the year Tyson chandler (top 5 pick)
Durant (top 5-10 player and pick)  joined by Westbrook and harden via draft (Top 5-10 picks)

Seeing a pattern?
Sorry spelling is bad and can't be bothered looking up draft positions of Bynum/Gasol I'm on ipad, complete torture to type.

  That's well under 1 player per draft. Also, if you're talking top 5-10 player, not draft position, you should throw Rondo in there since he's a top 5-10 player in the postseason when he's healthy (and was in 2010 when we got to the finals).

Qualifiers, much? ;D

But I actually agree with you, so following that model, who's the other top 10 guy we acquire to pair with Rondo?
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #92 on: November 03, 2013, 10:28:22 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

  I think Wade is probably the only top 5 player drafted since Duncan that's been a key piece of a championship for the team that drafted him. You say every team has drafted a top 5 player and added a top 5-10 player to support him. In addition to Detroit and Dallas none of the Kobe or Shaq led teams or the Celts won like that.

I said drafted a top 5-10 player, not a pick. You could change the word from player to pick and make it top 10. Let's include finals teams over the last 20 seasons.
Pierce (top 5 -10 player and pick) added KG and Ray both top 10 picks
Kobe (top 5-10 player) (if he went to college he'd probably be top 10 instead of 13th it's fair to say?) joined by Shaq, then joined by Gasol and Bynum. Not sure where Gasol + Bynum were drafted but Bynum was high school and Gasol was euro.
Wade (top 5-10 player and pick) Shaq and then added Lebron both top 10 picks and players
Lebron(top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with cavs
Shaq (top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with Orlando and had penny hardaway (top 5-10 player and pick)join via draft ( in which magic gave up webber lawl.
Duncan (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted joining D Rob. Then joned by Parker + ginobli both euro.
Howard (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Orlando not much help
Dirk(top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Mavs not much help except defensive player of the year Tyson chandler (top 5 pick)
Durant (top 5-10 player and pick)  joined by Westbrook and harden via draft (Top 5-10 picks)

Seeing a pattern?
Sorry spelling is bad and can't be bothered looking up draft positions of Bynum/Gasol I'm on ipad, complete torture to type.

  That's well under 1 player per draft. Also, if you're talking top 5-10 player, not draft position, you should throw Rondo in there since he's a top 5-10 player in the postseason when he's healthy (and was in 2010 when we got to the finals).

Qualifiers, much? ;D

But I actually agree with you, so following that model, who's the other top 10 guy we acquire to pair with Rondo?

Nobody knows that for sure right now.  What I find so ironic on these threads is that the pro-tankers often demand to know who that guy is, otherwise the only solution is tanking.

Of course, the pro tankers don't know who that guy is either.  They just want to see their team lose. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #93 on: November 03, 2013, 10:50:09 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

  I think Wade is probably the only top 5 player drafted since Duncan that's been a key piece of a championship for the team that drafted him. You say every team has drafted a top 5 player and added a top 5-10 player to support him. In addition to Detroit and Dallas none of the Kobe or Shaq led teams or the Celts won like that.

I said drafted a top 5-10 player, not a pick. You could change the word from player to pick and make it top 10. Let's include finals teams over the last 20 seasons.
Pierce (top 5 -10 player and pick) added KG and Ray both top 10 picks
Kobe (top 5-10 player) (if he went to college he'd probably be top 10 instead of 13th it's fair to say?) joined by Shaq, then joined by Gasol and Bynum. Not sure where Gasol + Bynum were drafted but Bynum was high school and Gasol was euro.
Wade (top 5-10 player and pick) Shaq and then added Lebron both top 10 picks and players
Lebron(top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with cavs
Shaq (top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with Orlando and had penny hardaway (top 5-10 player and pick)join via draft ( in which magic gave up webber lawl.
Duncan (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted joining D Rob. Then joned by Parker + ginobli both euro.
Howard (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Orlando not much help
Dirk(top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Mavs not much help except defensive player of the year Tyson chandler (top 5 pick)
Durant (top 5-10 player and pick)  joined by Westbrook and harden via draft (Top 5-10 picks)

Seeing a pattern?
Sorry spelling is bad and can't be bothered looking up draft positions of Bynum/Gasol I'm on ipad, complete torture to type.

  That's well under 1 player per draft. Also, if you're talking top 5-10 player, not draft position, you should throw Rondo in there since he's a top 5-10 player in the postseason when he's healthy (and was in 2010 when we got to the finals).

Qualifiers, much? ;D

But I actually agree with you, so following that model, who's the other top 10 guy we acquire to pair with Rondo?

Nobody knows that for sure right now.  What I find so ironic on these threads is that the pro-tankers often demand to know who that guy is, otherwise the only solution is tanking.

Of course, the pro tankers don't know who that guy is either.  They just want to see their team lose.

Maybe I should have phrased the queston differently--looking around the league, which top 5-10 player(s) would you pair with Rondo to help this squad become a legitimate title contender?
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #94 on: November 03, 2013, 11:00:11 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

  I think Wade is probably the only top 5 player drafted since Duncan that's been a key piece of a championship for the team that drafted him. You say every team has drafted a top 5 player and added a top 5-10 player to support him. In addition to Detroit and Dallas none of the Kobe or Shaq led teams or the Celts won like that.

I said drafted a top 5-10 player, not a pick. You could change the word from player to pick and make it top 10. Let's include finals teams over the last 20 seasons.
Pierce (top 5 -10 player and pick) added KG and Ray both top 10 picks
Kobe (top 5-10 player) (if he went to college he'd probably be top 10 instead of 13th it's fair to say?) joined by Shaq, then joined by Gasol and Bynum. Not sure where Gasol + Bynum were drafted but Bynum was high school and Gasol was euro.
Wade (top 5-10 player and pick) Shaq and then added Lebron both top 10 picks and players
Lebron(top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with cavs
Shaq (top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with Orlando and had penny hardaway (top 5-10 player and pick)join via draft ( in which magic gave up webber lawl.
Duncan (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted joining D Rob. Then joned by Parker + ginobli both euro.
Howard (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Orlando not much help
Dirk(top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Mavs not much help except defensive player of the year Tyson chandler (top 5 pick)
Durant (top 5-10 player and pick)  joined by Westbrook and harden via draft (Top 5-10 picks)

Seeing a pattern?
Sorry spelling is bad and can't be bothered looking up draft positions of Bynum/Gasol I'm on ipad, complete torture to type.

  That's well under 1 player per draft. Also, if you're talking top 5-10 player, not draft position, you should throw Rondo in there since he's a top 5-10 player in the postseason when he's healthy (and was in 2010 when we got to the finals).

Qualifiers, much? ;D

But I actually agree with you, so following that model, who's the other top 10 guy we acquire to pair with Rondo?

  I don't know, I'd need someone to provide me with a comprehensive list of players who will be available over the next 2-3 years to even guess. But I'm of the opinion that it would be easier to acquire that player than it would be to trade Rondo and then try to acquire two such players.

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #95 on: November 03, 2013, 11:13:08 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

  I think Wade is probably the only top 5 player drafted since Duncan that's been a key piece of a championship for the team that drafted him. You say every team has drafted a top 5 player and added a top 5-10 player to support him. In addition to Detroit and Dallas none of the Kobe or Shaq led teams or the Celts won like that.

I said drafted a top 5-10 player, not a pick. You could change the word from player to pick and make it top 10. Let's include finals teams over the last 20 seasons.
Pierce (top 5 -10 player and pick) added KG and Ray both top 10 picks
Kobe (top 5-10 player) (if he went to college he'd probably be top 10 instead of 13th it's fair to say?) joined by Shaq, then joined by Gasol and Bynum. Not sure where Gasol + Bynum were drafted but Bynum was high school and Gasol was euro.
Wade (top 5-10 player and pick) Shaq and then added Lebron both top 10 picks and players
Lebron(top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with cavs
Shaq (top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with Orlando and had penny hardaway (top 5-10 player and pick)join via draft ( in which magic gave up webber lawl.
Duncan (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted joining D Rob. Then joned by Parker + ginobli both euro.
Howard (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Orlando not much help
Dirk(top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Mavs not much help except defensive player of the year Tyson chandler (top 5 pick)
Durant (top 5-10 player and pick)  joined by Westbrook and harden via draft (Top 5-10 picks)

Seeing a pattern?
Sorry spelling is bad and can't be bothered looking up draft positions of Bynum/Gasol I'm on ipad, complete torture to type.

  That's well under 1 player per draft. Also, if you're talking top 5-10 player, not draft position, you should throw Rondo in there since he's a top 5-10 player in the postseason when he's healthy (and was in 2010 when we got to the finals).

Qualifiers, much? ;D

But I actually agree with you, so following that model, who's the other top 10 guy we acquire to pair with Rondo?

  I don't know, I'd need someone to provide me with a comprehensive list of players who will be available over the next 2-3 years to even guess. But I'm of the opinion that it would be easier to acquire that player than it would be to trade Rondo and then try to acquire two such players.

Probably, although I'm not sure we have much of value to offer besides Rondo and our own first rounder.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #96 on: November 03, 2013, 11:22:43 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

  I think Wade is probably the only top 5 player drafted since Duncan that's been a key piece of a championship for the team that drafted him. You say every team has drafted a top 5 player and added a top 5-10 player to support him. In addition to Detroit and Dallas none of the Kobe or Shaq led teams or the Celts won like that.

I said drafted a top 5-10 player, not a pick. You could change the word from player to pick and make it top 10. Let's include finals teams over the last 20 seasons.
Pierce (top 5 -10 player and pick) added KG and Ray both top 10 picks
Kobe (top 5-10 player) (if he went to college he'd probably be top 10 instead of 13th it's fair to say?) joined by Shaq, then joined by Gasol and Bynum. Not sure where Gasol + Bynum were drafted but Bynum was high school and Gasol was euro.
Wade (top 5-10 player and pick) Shaq and then added Lebron both top 10 picks and players
Lebron(top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with cavs
Shaq (top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with Orlando and had penny hardaway (top 5-10 player and pick)join via draft ( in which magic gave up webber lawl.
Duncan (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted joining D Rob. Then joned by Parker + ginobli both euro.
Howard (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Orlando not much help
Dirk(top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Mavs not much help except defensive player of the year Tyson chandler (top 5 pick)
Durant (top 5-10 player and pick)  joined by Westbrook and harden via draft (Top 5-10 picks)

Seeing a pattern?
Sorry spelling is bad and can't be bothered looking up draft positions of Bynum/Gasol I'm on ipad, complete torture to type.

  That's well under 1 player per draft. Also, if you're talking top 5-10 player, not draft position, you should throw Rondo in there since he's a top 5-10 player in the postseason when he's healthy (and was in 2010 when we got to the finals).

Qualifiers, much? ;D

But I actually agree with you, so following that model, who's the other top 10 guy we acquire to pair with Rondo?

Nobody knows that for sure right now.  What I find so ironic on these threads is that the pro-tankers often demand to know who that guy is, otherwise the only solution is tanking.

Of course, the pro tankers don't know who that guy is either.  They just want to see their team lose.

Maybe I should have phrased the queston differently--looking around the league, which top 5-10 player(s) would you pair with Rondo to help this squad become a legitimate title contender?

I've probably got more than 10.

Some guys I'd consider:

Love
Griffin
Monroe
Drummond
A. Davis
Noah
Gasol
Olynyk
Faverani
Valanciunas
Sanders
Pekovic
Sullinger
Cousins
Asik
Mozgov
Vucevic
Nicholson
Len
Noel
Adams
Noguiera
Al Jefferson
Favors
Kanter
D. Jordan
Ibaka
Lopez
Hibbert
Horford
Hawes
D. Lee
Bass
Faried


Harden
George
Batum
Adetonkounpo
K. Thompson
Gay
J. Green
Beal
H. Barnes
A. Bradley
T. Harris
Hayward
Parsons
Deng
Bradley
Ellis
E. Gordon
T. Young
Turner
Carter-Williams
Josh Smith
K. Leonard
Gerald Henderson
Kidd-Gilchrist


Those are all just off the top of my head.  They don't include any players not yet in the NBA. 



« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 11:33:36 AM by Celtics18 »
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #97 on: November 03, 2013, 11:25:33 AM »

Offline Galeto

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Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

  I think Wade is probably the only top 5 player drafted since Duncan that's been a key piece of a championship for the team that drafted him. You say every team has drafted a top 5 player and added a top 5-10 player to support him. In addition to Detroit and Dallas none of the Kobe or Shaq led teams or the Celts won like that.

I said drafted a top 5-10 player, not a pick. You could change the word from player to pick and make it top 10. Let's include finals teams over the last 20 seasons.
Pierce (top 5 -10 player and pick) added KG and Ray both top 10 picks
Kobe (top 5-10 player) (if he went to college he'd probably be top 10 instead of 13th it's fair to say?) joined by Shaq, then joined by Gasol and Bynum. Not sure where Gasol + Bynum were drafted but Bynum was high school and Gasol was euro.
Wade (top 5-10 player and pick) Shaq and then added Lebron both top 10 picks and players
Lebron(top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with cavs
Shaq (top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with Orlando and had penny hardaway (top 5-10 player and pick)join via draft ( in which magic gave up webber lawl.
Duncan (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted joining D Rob. Then joned by Parker + ginobli both euro.
Howard (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Orlando not much help
Dirk(top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Mavs not much help except defensive player of the year Tyson chandler (top 5 pick)
Durant (top 5-10 player and pick)  joined by Westbrook and harden via draft (Top 5-10 picks)

Seeing a pattern?
Sorry spelling is bad and can't be bothered looking up draft positions of Bynum/Gasol I'm on ipad, complete torture to type.

  That's well under 1 player per draft. Also, if you're talking top 5-10 player, not draft position, you should throw Rondo in there since he's a top 5-10 player in the postseason when he's healthy (and was in 2010 when we got to the finals).

Qualifiers, much? ;D

But I actually agree with you, so following that model, who's the other top 10 guy we acquire to pair with Rondo?

Nobody knows that for sure right now.  What I find so ironic on these threads is that the pro-tankers often demand to know who that guy is, otherwise the only solution is tanking.

Of course, the pro tankers don't know who that guy is either.  They just want to see their team lose.

Yes, I just want my team to lose.  No context necessary at all.

I certainly don't demand to know what top 5-10 player we can get in free agency or through trades but then again, I'm not advocating going down that avenue.  Isn't the onus on the person making that kind of claim to at least attempt to offer some possible scenarios?  Otherwise, it's just all pie in the sky wishcasting. 

Presumably, a future championship is going to require the Celtics acquiring this unknown top 5-10 player.  Given this franchise's history with attracting top free agents and the current assets we have in the way of players and draft picks, I think getting a high pick in what's considered a loaded draft seems like a more substantive way to acquire said player. 

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #98 on: November 03, 2013, 11:27:02 AM »

Offline Galeto

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Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

  I think Wade is probably the only top 5 player drafted since Duncan that's been a key piece of a championship for the team that drafted him. You say every team has drafted a top 5 player and added a top 5-10 player to support him. In addition to Detroit and Dallas none of the Kobe or Shaq led teams or the Celts won like that.

I said drafted a top 5-10 player, not a pick. You could change the word from player to pick and make it top 10. Let's include finals teams over the last 20 seasons.
Pierce (top 5 -10 player and pick) added KG and Ray both top 10 picks
Kobe (top 5-10 player) (if he went to college he'd probably be top 10 instead of 13th it's fair to say?) joined by Shaq, then joined by Gasol and Bynum. Not sure where Gasol + Bynum were drafted but Bynum was high school and Gasol was euro.
Wade (top 5-10 player and pick) Shaq and then added Lebron both top 10 picks and players
Lebron(top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with cavs
Shaq (top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with Orlando and had penny hardaway (top 5-10 player and pick)join via draft ( in which magic gave up webber lawl.
Duncan (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted joining D Rob. Then joned by Parker + ginobli both euro.
Howard (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Orlando not much help
Dirk(top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Mavs not much help except defensive player of the year Tyson chandler (top 5 pick)
Durant (top 5-10 player and pick)  joined by Westbrook and harden via draft (Top 5-10 picks)

Seeing a pattern?
Sorry spelling is bad and can't be bothered looking up draft positions of Bynum/Gasol I'm on ipad, complete torture to type.

  That's well under 1 player per draft. Also, if you're talking top 5-10 player, not draft position, you should throw Rondo in there since he's a top 5-10 player in the postseason when he's healthy (and was in 2010 when we got to the finals).

Qualifiers, much? ;D

But I actually agree with you, so following that model, who's the other top 10 guy we acquire to pair with Rondo?

Nobody knows that for sure right now.  What I find so ironic on these threads is that the pro-tankers often demand to know who that guy is, otherwise the only solution is tanking.

Of course, the pro tankers don't know who that guy is either.  They just want to see their team lose.

Maybe I should have phrased the queston differently--looking around the league, which top 5-10 player(s) would you pair with Rondo to help this squad become a legitimate title contender?

I've probably got more than 10.

Some guys I'd consider:

Love
Griffin
Monroe
Drummond
A. Davis
Noah
Gasol
Olynyk
Faverani
Valanciunas
Sanders
Pekovic
Sullinger
Cousins
Asik
Mozgov
Vucevic
Nicholson
Len
Noel
Adams
Noguiera
Al Jefferson

Harden
Batum
Adetonkounpo
K. Thompson
Gay
J. Green
Beal
H. Barnes
A. Bradley
T. Harris
Hayward
Parsons
Deng
Bradley
Ellis
E. Gordon
T. Young
Turner
Carter-Williams
Josh Smith


Those are all just off the top of my head.  They don't include any players not yet in the NBA.

If you're just going to list names without considering if they're possible to acquire, then why not name LeBron and Durant too.  Go all the way!

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #99 on: November 03, 2013, 11:42:39 AM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
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Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

  I think Wade is probably the only top 5 player drafted since Duncan that's been a key piece of a championship for the team that drafted him. You say every team has drafted a top 5 player and added a top 5-10 player to support him. In addition to Detroit and Dallas none of the Kobe or Shaq led teams or the Celts won like that.

I said drafted a top 5-10 player, not a pick. You could change the word from player to pick and make it top 10. Let's include finals teams over the last 20 seasons.
Pierce (top 5 -10 player and pick) added KG and Ray both top 10 picks
Kobe (top 5-10 player) (if he went to college he'd probably be top 10 instead of 13th it's fair to say?) joined by Shaq, then joined by Gasol and Bynum. Not sure where Gasol + Bynum were drafted but Bynum was high school and Gasol was euro.
Wade (top 5-10 player and pick) Shaq and then added Lebron both top 10 picks and players
Lebron(top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with cavs
Shaq (top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with Orlando and had penny hardaway (top 5-10 player and pick)join via draft ( in which magic gave up webber lawl.
Duncan (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted joining D Rob. Then joned by Parker + ginobli both euro.
Howard (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Orlando not much help
Dirk(top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Mavs not much help except defensive player of the year Tyson chandler (top 5 pick)
Durant (top 5-10 player and pick)  joined by Westbrook and harden via draft (Top 5-10 picks)

Seeing a pattern?
Sorry spelling is bad and can't be bothered looking up draft positions of Bynum/Gasol I'm on ipad, complete torture to type.

  That's well under 1 player per draft. Also, if you're talking top 5-10 player, not draft position, you should throw Rondo in there since he's a top 5-10 player in the postseason when he's healthy (and was in 2010 when we got to the finals).

Qualifiers, much? ;D

But I actually agree with you, so following that model, who's the other top 10 guy we acquire to pair with Rondo?

Nobody knows that for sure right now.  What I find so ironic on these threads is that the pro-tankers often demand to know who that guy is, otherwise the only solution is tanking.

Of course, the pro tankers don't know who that guy is either.  They just want to see their team lose.

Yes, I just want my team to lose.  No context necessary at all.

I certainly don't demand to know what top 5-10 player we can get in free agency or through trades but then again, I'm not advocating going down that avenue.  Isn't the onus on the person making that kind of claim to at least attempt to offer some possible scenarios?  Otherwise, it's just all pie in the sky wishcasting. 

Presumably, a future championship is going to require the Celtics acquiring this unknown top 5-10 player.  Given this franchise's history with attracting top free agents and the current assets we have in the way of players and draft picks, I think getting a high pick in what's considered a loaded draft seems like a more substantive way to acquire said player.

I don't see how the onus falls more heavily on one group or the other.  I don't know what this roster will look like in two or three years time more than anybody else does. 

Anyway, I disagree with the bolded part of your statement which seems like "pie in the sky wish casting (love the term "wish casting." by the way)" as much as anything else. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #100 on: November 03, 2013, 11:47:22 AM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
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Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

  I think Wade is probably the only top 5 player drafted since Duncan that's been a key piece of a championship for the team that drafted him. You say every team has drafted a top 5 player and added a top 5-10 player to support him. In addition to Detroit and Dallas none of the Kobe or Shaq led teams or the Celts won like that.

I said drafted a top 5-10 player, not a pick. You could change the word from player to pick and make it top 10. Let's include finals teams over the last 20 seasons.
Pierce (top 5 -10 player and pick) added KG and Ray both top 10 picks
Kobe (top 5-10 player) (if he went to college he'd probably be top 10 instead of 13th it's fair to say?) joined by Shaq, then joined by Gasol and Bynum. Not sure where Gasol + Bynum were drafted but Bynum was high school and Gasol was euro.
Wade (top 5-10 player and pick) Shaq and then added Lebron both top 10 picks and players
Lebron(top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with cavs
Shaq (top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with Orlando and had penny hardaway (top 5-10 player and pick)join via draft ( in which magic gave up webber lawl.
Duncan (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted joining D Rob. Then joned by Parker + ginobli both euro.
Howard (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Orlando not much help
Dirk(top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Mavs not much help except defensive player of the year Tyson chandler (top 5 pick)
Durant (top 5-10 player and pick)  joined by Westbrook and harden via draft (Top 5-10 picks)

Seeing a pattern?
Sorry spelling is bad and can't be bothered looking up draft positions of Bynum/Gasol I'm on ipad, complete torture to type.

  That's well under 1 player per draft. Also, if you're talking top 5-10 player, not draft position, you should throw Rondo in there since he's a top 5-10 player in the postseason when he's healthy (and was in 2010 when we got to the finals).

Qualifiers, much? ;D

But I actually agree with you, so following that model, who's the other top 10 guy we acquire to pair with Rondo?

Nobody knows that for sure right now.  What I find so ironic on these threads is that the pro-tankers often demand to know who that guy is, otherwise the only solution is tanking.

Of course, the pro tankers don't know who that guy is either.  They just want to see their team lose.

Maybe I should have phrased the queston differently--looking around the league, which top 5-10 player(s) would you pair with Rondo to help this squad become a legitimate title contender?

I've probably got more than 10.

Some guys I'd consider:

Love
Griffin
Monroe
Drummond
A. Davis
Noah
Gasol
Olynyk
Faverani
Valanciunas
Sanders
Pekovic
Sullinger
Cousins
Asik
Mozgov
Vucevic
Nicholson
Len
Noel
Adams
Noguiera
Al Jefferson

Harden
Batum
Adetonkounpo
K. Thompson
Gay
J. Green
Beal
H. Barnes
A. Bradley
T. Harris
Hayward
Parsons
Deng
Bradley
Ellis
E. Gordon
T. Young
Turner
Carter-Williams
Josh Smith


Those are all just off the top of my head.  They don't include any players not yet in the NBA.

If you're just going to list names without considering if they're possible to acquire, then why not name LeBron and Durant too.  Go all the way!

I don't know what the possibility of acquiring each of the players on my list is (not even sure I'd want everyone of them--and I'm sure I left someone off who might be interesting).  But, I will say that the likelihood of getting at least one of the 50 or so players on my list is sure to be higher than the likelihood of getting Andrew Wiggins. 

I left Durant and James off the list, because I'm not really that interested in either of those guys. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #101 on: November 03, 2013, 12:24:34 PM »

Offline Galeto

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Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

  I think Wade is probably the only top 5 player drafted since Duncan that's been a key piece of a championship for the team that drafted him. You say every team has drafted a top 5 player and added a top 5-10 player to support him. In addition to Detroit and Dallas none of the Kobe or Shaq led teams or the Celts won like that.

I said drafted a top 5-10 player, not a pick. You could change the word from player to pick and make it top 10. Let's include finals teams over the last 20 seasons.
Pierce (top 5 -10 player and pick) added KG and Ray both top 10 picks
Kobe (top 5-10 player) (if he went to college he'd probably be top 10 instead of 13th it's fair to say?) joined by Shaq, then joined by Gasol and Bynum. Not sure where Gasol + Bynum were drafted but Bynum was high school and Gasol was euro.
Wade (top 5-10 player and pick) Shaq and then added Lebron both top 10 picks and players
Lebron(top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with cavs
Shaq (top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with Orlando and had penny hardaway (top 5-10 player and pick)join via draft ( in which magic gave up webber lawl.
Duncan (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted joining D Rob. Then joned by Parker + ginobli both euro.
Howard (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Orlando not much help
Dirk(top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Mavs not much help except defensive player of the year Tyson chandler (top 5 pick)
Durant (top 5-10 player and pick)  joined by Westbrook and harden via draft (Top 5-10 picks)

Seeing a pattern?
Sorry spelling is bad and can't be bothered looking up draft positions of Bynum/Gasol I'm on ipad, complete torture to type.

  That's well under 1 player per draft. Also, if you're talking top 5-10 player, not draft position, you should throw Rondo in there since he's a top 5-10 player in the postseason when he's healthy (and was in 2010 when we got to the finals).

Qualifiers, much? ;D

But I actually agree with you, so following that model, who's the other top 10 guy we acquire to pair with Rondo?

Nobody knows that for sure right now.  What I find so ironic on these threads is that the pro-tankers often demand to know who that guy is, otherwise the only solution is tanking.

Of course, the pro tankers don't know who that guy is either.  They just want to see their team lose.

Maybe I should have phrased the queston differently--looking around the league, which top 5-10 player(s) would you pair with Rondo to help this squad become a legitimate title contender?

I've probably got more than 10.

Some guys I'd consider:

Love
Griffin
Monroe
Drummond
A. Davis
Noah
Gasol
Olynyk
Faverani
Valanciunas
Sanders
Pekovic
Sullinger
Cousins
Asik
Mozgov
Vucevic
Nicholson
Len
Noel
Adams
Noguiera
Al Jefferson

Harden
Batum
Adetonkounpo
K. Thompson
Gay
J. Green
Beal
H. Barnes
A. Bradley
T. Harris
Hayward
Parsons
Deng
Bradley
Ellis
E. Gordon
T. Young
Turner
Carter-Williams
Josh Smith


Those are all just off the top of my head.  They don't include any players not yet in the NBA.

If you're just going to list names without considering if they're possible to acquire, then why not name LeBron and Durant too.  Go all the way!

I don't know what the possibility of acquiring each of the players on my list is (not even sure I'd want everyone of them--and I'm sure I left someone off who might be interesting).  But, I will say that the likelihood of getting at least one of the 50 or so players on my list is sure to be higher than the likelihood of getting Andrew Wiggins. 

I left Durant and James off the list, because I'm not really that interested in either of those guys.

Well, first of all, you named a bunch of non-top 5-10 players.  Almost every player on your list is good but about 90 percent are not THAT good.  Anyway, yes, Harden, sure he's attainable.  Anthony Davis and Drummond, them too.  I have Harris and Parsons as the 7th and 8th best players in the NBA; if you want to flip flop them, I wouldn't argue.  Monta Ellis just missed the list at no.11.  Mozgov could start for 29 teams in the league except for the Nuggets.  It's a dang shame he's stuck on that team. 

You're right though.  Turner is on your list and because he's going to be a restricted free agent, the Celtics have a better chance of getting him than Wiggins.  Shut down the Tank!

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #102 on: November 03, 2013, 12:42:00 PM »

Offline TheTruthFot18

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
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  • Truth Juice
We must be tanking. Or the Sixers just want some competition for the first pick. I see you what you're doing Philly  ;)
The Nets will finish with the worst record and the Celtics will end up with the 4th pick.

- Me (sometime in January)

--------------------------------------------------------

Guess I was wrong (May 23rd)

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #103 on: November 03, 2013, 12:43:30 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
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  • Posts: 23724
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Number 3 is just as hard as 1 and 2- but it's the way that every championship team (except for Detroit) has acquired a top 5 player in the last 20 years. They drafted that top 5-10 guy and then got another top 5-10 guy to support him. (well Dirk did it on his own).

  I think Wade is probably the only top 5 player drafted since Duncan that's been a key piece of a championship for the team that drafted him. You say every team has drafted a top 5 player and added a top 5-10 player to support him. In addition to Detroit and Dallas none of the Kobe or Shaq led teams or the Celts won like that.

I said drafted a top 5-10 player, not a pick. You could change the word from player to pick and make it top 10. Let's include finals teams over the last 20 seasons.
Pierce (top 5 -10 player and pick) added KG and Ray both top 10 picks
Kobe (top 5-10 player) (if he went to college he'd probably be top 10 instead of 13th it's fair to say?) joined by Shaq, then joined by Gasol and Bynum. Not sure where Gasol + Bynum were drafted but Bynum was high school and Gasol was euro.
Wade (top 5-10 player and pick) Shaq and then added Lebron both top 10 picks and players
Lebron(top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with cavs
Shaq (top 5-10 player and pick) went to finals with Orlando and had penny hardaway (top 5-10 player and pick)join via draft ( in which magic gave up webber lawl.
Duncan (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted joining D Rob. Then joned by Parker + ginobli both euro.
Howard (top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Orlando not much help
Dirk(top 5-10 player and pick) drafted by Mavs not much help except defensive player of the year Tyson chandler (top 5 pick)
Durant (top 5-10 player and pick)  joined by Westbrook and harden via draft (Top 5-10 picks)

Seeing a pattern?
Sorry spelling is bad and can't be bothered looking up draft positions of Bynum/Gasol I'm on ipad, complete torture to type.

  That's well under 1 player per draft. Also, if you're talking top 5-10 player, not draft position, you should throw Rondo in there since he's a top 5-10 player in the postseason when he's healthy (and was in 2010 when we got to the finals).

Qualifiers, much? ;D

But I actually agree with you, so following that model, who's the other top 10 guy we acquire to pair with Rondo?

Nobody knows that for sure right now.  What I find so ironic on these threads is that the pro-tankers often demand to know who that guy is, otherwise the only solution is tanking.

Of course, the pro tankers don't know who that guy is either.  They just want to see their team lose.

Maybe I should have phrased the queston differently--looking around the league, which top 5-10 player(s) would you pair with Rondo to help this squad become a legitimate title contender?

  Probably any of them that aren't point guards.

Re: We really are tanking
« Reply #104 on: November 04, 2013, 03:58:55 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I'm a big believer that Ainge tanked the season 4 months ago by trading away Pierce and KG.  The coach and players don't need to intentionally throw the games.  We're already set up to fail.  Lack of talent will take care of the job for them.

That said... benching our best scorer for an entire 4th quarter and playing him a mere 20 minutes is about as blatantly "tanky" as it gets.  Also surprised Fav didn't get more than 19 minutes... he seemed pretty effective. 

It doesn't bother me.  I'm sure some fans will make excuses.  But it's hard not to see that as a tank job. 

Meanwhile, Wallace and Bass both get 36 minutes... not a surprise considering we're desperate to trade those bums.