How good will Sully and Olynyk be at their prime?

[danglertx]

A lot of people won't get this comparison but I'd put Olynyk as a taller Detlef Schrempf with maybe some better post skills.

Detlef was always call the poor man's Bird but he actually had more of a straight jumper and more athletic skill set where Bird was more of a scorer than just a shooter.

Nah.  Schrempf was one of the greatest shooters I've ever seen.

In his prime he shot 52% from the floor, 52% from three, 84% from the line and averaged 19 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists.  He was a 3-time All-Star.

It's a reach.  KO might end up a starter, but he also might be a long-term backup.

He had one year where he hit over 50% from three land.  Most of his years were spent in the 30s, many the low 30s or lower.  Five out of 18 years he shot over 50% from the floor.

Calling him one of the best shooters you've ever seen seems like a stretch unless you are from Germany and only watched games Detlef played.

I like they guy as much as any other non German but he wasn't THAT great.  Good shooter, had a couple good years from three, fast, good defender, and pretty good rebounding for a 6'9" guy.

It took him until his 7th year to get to 80% from the foul line.  To his credit, he stayed there pretty much the rest of his career though.

[Ogaju]

why do people always sell those Bulls teams short just because they had the greatest player every to play on that team does not mean the rest of their players were scrubs. The bulls teams had a lot of lengthy scrubs at the center position and just rotated them in to wear down the opposition.

I cant remember all the names but they had folks like Cartwright, Wennington (sp), the dude from Australia Luc Longley, Perdue, Bison Dele, Horace Grant, Rodman, Kukoc was long too. They gave teams fits on defense.

[Tr1boy]

Olynyk best bet is brad miller. If you cant remember just watch a clip of him on youtube.

Like olynyk narrow shoulders, high iq, skilled, good handles, good mid range jump shot, excellent at passing , became a good rebounder and worked his butt off to be able to play in the league a long time

[clover]

Interesting to note that KO is almost full year older than Sully. At 21, Sully can still develop a lot.

I think Sully's body is already more mature than Olynyk's, and KO will likely change more as a player over the next couple of years. Sully's probably closer IMO to what he's going to be.

[Celtics4ever]

I think Sully = Carlos Boozer with a jumper and attitude.

[LarBrd33]

I think Sully = Carlos Boozer with a jumper and attitude.

I don't agree.  Maybe he gets in shape some day, but the dude is a slow, unathletic, fat role player at this point.  I might have to start calling him Obese Sullinger in honor of his doppleganger, Glen Davis.  Completely unimpressed.  He seems relatively smart and makes some good plays, but I think he's just as likely to end up a long-term backup as a long-term starter.

[LarBrd33]

A lot of people won't get this comparison but I'd put Olynyk as a taller Detlef Schrempf with maybe some better post skills.

Detlef was always call the poor man's Bird but he actually had more of a straight jumper and more athletic skill set where Bird was more of a scorer than just a shooter.

Nah.  Schrempf was one of the greatest shooters I've ever seen.

In his prime he shot 52% from the floor, 52% from three, 84% from the line and averaged 19 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists.  He was a 3-time All-Star.

It's a reach.  KO might end up a starter, but he also might be a long-term backup.

He had one year where he hit over 50% from three land.  Most of his years were spent in the 30s, many the low 30s or lower.  Five out of 18 years he shot over 50% from the floor.

Calling him one of the best shooters you've ever seen seems like a stretch unless you are from Germany and only watched games Detlef played.

I like they guy as much as any other non German but he wasn't THAT great.  Good shooter, had a couple good years from three, fast, good defender, and pretty good rebounding for a 6'9" guy.

It took him until his 7th year to get to 80% from the foul line.  To his credit, he stayed there pretty much the rest of his career though.

You do realize it's insanely rare to shoot 50% from three, right?

Det's career splits were 49%/38%/80%... that's phenomenal.  But to answer your question, I was living in Seattle during the mid 90s when Detlef was playing for the Sonics.  I basically had season tickets.  Watching that guy warm up before games was surreal... it was like he never missed a shot.   When I say that Detlef was one of the greatest shooters I've ever seen, I'm being very literal.  He's one of the greatest shooters I've ever watched.  And his stats basically back that up.

We can all dream that KO reaches that level some day, but don't count on it.  He wasn't much of a distance shooter in College.  He only made 25 three pointers... 33%.  He was a 70% free throw shooter.   I agree he's an intriguing player, but I don't think anyone really expects him to be a star in this league.

[nickagneta]

Only seen three games this preseason and in those three games Olynyk has looked physically over matched, defensively non-existent and offensively lost.He appears to be a poor rebounder and defender with some possible skill on offense but could be swallowed up by good defenders in this league.

I still say I see ton more of Adam Morrison in his game than Dirk Nowitzki.

As for Sully, I am really saddened to see how fat he still is. Thinner, stronger and meaner should be his game yet he has come back slower, fatter and shooting more three pointers like some stretch 5. That's not his game. I think he could be very good, long term but he needs to lose that weight and get his game together.

[Celtics4ever]

I don't agree.  Maybe he gets in shape some day, but the dude is a slow, unathletic, fat role player at this point.

It said in their prime not now.  Prime means in their future not now.  I agree Sully is fat and they way he was hoisting threes he seemed tired.   

Detlef was a solid good player.  It's one thing to never miss in warmups and another when others are on you.  I do not see Oly being him either because Oly is a better passer than him and not as good as a shooter.   I think Detlef was more athletic than Oly will be folks.  Oly does have some nifty moves but Detlef could dunk over folks when he had to in traffic.  Oly might off a dump off.

Oly needs to get in the weight room bad.   Finesse can only take you so far nowadays.  Even great finesse guys could play power ball if they had to do so.  He is weak and needs to work on his body to hold his position.   Good news is he should get better.   I think the Brad Miller comparison is a good one.

Neither of these guys are great three point shooters.   I cringe when they shoot outside of ten feet.   I know they hit one here and there.  But more oft than not they miss them and deprive us of rebounding opportunities.

 

[LarBrd33]

I don't agree.  Maybe he gets in shape some day, but the dude is a slow, unathletic, fat role player at this point.

It said in their prime not now.  Prime means in their future not now.  I agree Sully is fat and they way he was hoisting threes he seemed tired.   

Ok... so in his prime he can be someone like Glen Davis... a dude who averages 15 and 7 for a lotto team.  Right now he's a dude who puts up 4 and 1 during the preseason.

[guava_wrench]

A lot of people won't get this comparison but I'd put Olynyk as a taller Detlef Schrempf with maybe some better post skills.

Detlef was always call the poor man's Bird but he actually had more of a straight jumper and more athletic skill set where Bird was more of a scorer than just a shooter.

You don't mention the things the Schrempf was better at. Are you saying KO is better?

I'd say they might be equivalent players.  Obviously prime years Schrempf is better than rookie KO.  I really haven't seen enough of KO to say for sure his ball handling will be as good or his 3pt shot but they definitely can be.  I wouldn't be surprised at all if their career stats are very similar.

"they definitely can be"? Based on what? The idea that anything is possible?

Maybe Bass one day will shoot 3's like Schrempf. It is possible.

I have a few pet peeves on player comparisons. One is saying "a poor man's". That is saying nothing. It is saying essentially "I think these guys have similar styles, but I am unwilling to make any statement about whether one of them will have any success". When asking about how good someone will be, style tells us little. How successful will they be at that style?

What is particularly silly about "a poor man's" is that it doesn't tell us if the player is 90% of the comparison player or 10%. Even worse, the comparisons tend to be based more on a single skill and on appearance (esp race) instead of based on all-around game. How many unathletic white shooters who can't pass, are defensive liabilities, and don't have much of a post game get called at one point a "poor man's Bird" just because of the smooth jumper, lack of hops, position, and skin color. Are you overweight? Poor man's Barkley. Even though you can't leave the lane while Barkley could do everything on the court.

Another pet peeve of mine is comparing a rookie who hasn't proven that he can do anything effectively in the NBA to an all-star caliber player 'but with a better X'. Uh, what about all the stuff that the all-star caliber player is better at? Nevermind that the rookie hasn't shown any reason for us to expect that they will ever be great at even that one skill in the NBA, but why compare to other players if you can't evaluate more than one skill of that other player.

I think Avery Bradley is a poor man's Michael Jordan, but with better ball pressure skills. 

[LarBrd33]

A lot of people won't get this comparison but I'd put Olynyk as a taller Detlef Schrempf with maybe some better post skills.

Detlef was always call the poor man's Bird but he actually had more of a straight jumper and more athletic skill set where Bird was more of a scorer than just a shooter.

You don't mention the things the Schrempf was better at. Are you saying KO is better?

I'd say they might be equivalent players.  Obviously prime years Schrempf is better than rookie KO.  I really haven't seen enough of KO to say for sure his ball handling will be as good or his 3pt shot but they definitely can be.  I wouldn't be surprised at all if their career stats are very similar.

"they definitely can be"? Based on what? The idea that anything is possible?

Maybe Bass one day will shoot 3's like Schrempf. It is possible.

I have a few pet peeves on player comparisons. One is saying "a poor man's". That is saying nothing. It is saying essentially "I think these guys have similar styles, but I am unwilling to make any statement about whether one of them will have any success". When asking about how good someone will be, style tells us little. How successful will they be at that style?

What is particularly silly about "a poor man's" is that it doesn't tell us if the player is 90% of the comparison player or 10%. Even worse, the comparisons tend to be based more on a single skill and on appearance (esp race) instead of based on all-around game. How many unathletic white shooters who can't pass, are defensive liabilities, and don't have much of a post game get called at one point a "poor man's Bird" just because of the smooth jumper, lack of hops, position, and skin color. Are you overweight? Poor man's Barkley. Even though you can't leave the lane while Barkley could do everything on the court.

Another pet peeve of mine is comparing a rookie who hasn't proven that he can do anything effectively in the NBA to an all-star caliber player 'but with a better X'. Uh, what about all the stuff that the all-star caliber player is better at? Nevermind that the rookie hasn't shown any reason for us to expect that they will ever be great at even that one skill in the NBA, but why compare to other players if you can't evaluate more than one skill of that other player.

I think Avery Bradley is a poor man's Michael Jordan, but with better ball pressure skills. 

TP

[Celtics4ever]

Ok... so in his prime he can be someone like Glen Davis... a dude who averages 15 and 7 for a lotto team.  Right now he's a dude who puts up 4 and 1 during the preseason.

Isn't he averaging 10 PPG and 4.6 RPG?

http://www.nba.com/celtics/stats/2013

From what I have read, not everyone is able to watch the preseason games.   He is leading us with 71 points.  Second to Bass with 32 rebounds.   Nothing to write home about but certainly not 4 and 1.

[sofutomygaha]

I think Sully = Carlos Boozer with a jumper and attitude.

I don't agree.  Maybe he gets in shape some day, but the dude is a slow, unathletic, fat role player at this point.  I might have to start calling him Obese Sullinger in honor of his doppleganger, Glen Davis.  Completely unimpressed.  He seems relatively smart and makes some good plays, but I think he's just as likely to end up a long-term backup as a long-term starter.

I think you are both right. I think that if Sullinger gets in shape, he will be Carlos Boozer. Right now, it is blatantly obvious that he is in no shape to play 25 minutes every other night. I hope that has more to do with his surgery rehab than his fatness, but the two are related to an extent.

Kevin Love used to look like this-

Let's all continue to hope and pray that Sullinger is more Kevin Love than Michael Sweetney.

[sofutomygaha]

TP to guava wrench for a fantastic rant. You write like a poor-man's Malcolm Gladwell, but with better analogies.