Jeff Green is not a very good basketball player

[kozlodoev]

Being in the NBA's top 50 is a pretty big deal.

To put things in perspective, being in the NBA top 50 means you're, on average, the best or the second best player on your team.

[Fan from VT]

Being in the NBA's top 50 is a pretty big deal.

To put things in perspective, being in the NBA top 50 means you're, on average, the best or the second best player on your team.

True. Good catch. So I'd say top 150.

[galvinx10]

LET"S TRADE HIM FOR TYLER HANSBROUGH! HE COULDN'T BE STOPPED LAST NIGHT!

But seriously, it was one night. I was at the game and Jeff Green made some great passes even though he wasn't necessarily looking for his shot. I'm especially thinking of one to Courtney Lee in the corner for an open 3.

It's funny that I saw this thread because the guy sitting behind me at the game was also mad that Jeff only had 6 points. I get the frustration to an extent, but come on.

[CelticsFanNC]

    While I agree Green was a very inconsistent basketball player for all but half a season and one playoff series in Boston, he was very good and very consistent the second half of last season and against the Knicks in the playoffs.

 I think a half a season of games plus the playoffs of very strong and pretty darn consistent play is more then enough to give him the benefit of the doubt until the games actually have meaning.   The last we saw of Jeff Green before last night he was a very good  and pretty consistent basketball player.

[Celtics18]

    While I agree Green was a very inconsistent basketball player for all but half a season and one playoff series in Boston, he was very good and very consistent the second half of last season and against the Knicks in the playoffs.

 I think a half a season of games plus the playoffs of very strong and pretty darn consistent play is more then enough to give him the benefit of the doubt until the games actually have meaning.   The last we saw of Jeff Green before last night he was a very good  and pretty consistent basketball player.

Yup.

[Boris Badenov]

I love this debate.

Is Jeff Green "great" or is he "not very good"?  These are your only choices.

Where's Tony the Tiger when we need him? He could settle this once and for all.

[Neurotic Guy]

The thing that made me curious last night was that Green seemed to start the game aggressively, like this was the beginning of a new era, and then very soon faded into the background of the offense.  It is not impossible that what we saw was in part by design:  Start off aggressive and see where it goes; when the C's started cold and got down by 10, perhaps Stevens decided to begin experimenting.  It was a clear difference after the initial few possessions the way Green settled back into hanging out in the corner. 

I understand that some do not see this as one preseason game but a reflection of Jeff Green's history, but I do see it as one game and will not draw conclusions.

I will, however, conclude based on this game that Jared Sullinger is going to be a very good NBA player if he stays healthy.   

[ScoobyDoo]

I agree, Green sucks. He's that guy who dropped 40+ something points on LeBron not long ago.

One

Game

I'm interested to evaluate his overall stats and performance in June, once we've had a full season with him not under the shadow of Pierce - in an environment where he has to carry more of the load.

I also think he's a guy who can very much excel on the break with Rondo at the helm. The guy has worthy type speed up and down the court.   

[Celtics4ever]

I think he will be ok if he sticks what he is good at which he did not last night.   Jeff Green the slasher is good.   Jeff Green the spot up shooter is not as good.  I do think it would be harder for him without PP and KG to draw attention but surely sticking to what he is good at would help his chances.

[CelticD]

i dont think its nothin to trip over just yet, cuz green was inconsistent much of last year. but some of yall taklin bout "its only the first game of preseason" be the same ones goin "its only the 5th game of preseason" then "its only the 6th game of the regular season" then "its only the 25th game of the regular season" and then wen all is said and done, yall be the first ones frontin like yall knew all along how bad a player was gonna be, forgettin all the times yall said "its only the..." lol.

[Galeto]

I think he will be ok if he sticks what he is good at which he did not last night.   Jeff Green the slasher is good.   Jeff Green the spot up shooter is not as good.  I do think it would be harder for him without PP and KG to draw attention but surely sticking to what he is good at would help his chances.

Green's a pretty good spot up shooter.  I think he's better at spotting up than slashing against wing players. 

[indeedproceed]

Being in the NBA's top 50 is a pretty big deal.

To put things in perspective, being in the NBA top 50 means you're, on average, the best or the second best player on your team.

Exactly, and to be clear, I'm not currently including Green in that group. Low 70s on the outside, high 70s to early 80s is where I feel comfortable.

[PhoSita]

Jeff Green is, on balance, a slightly above replacement level starting small forward in the NBA.  Occasionally, if he is your 2nd, 3rd, or 4th option offensively, he can go off for 25-30+ points.  Nevertheless, he's rarely going to actually win you a game by himself.

I'd say that makes him pretty amazing at basketball, objectively speaking.  In the context of the NBA, it means he's pretty good, though not a building block.  Will probably retire having played on at least a handful of different teams, but if he doesn't suffer any major injuries he'll be a useful player for a long time.

[indeedproceed]

Jeff Green is, on balance, a slightly above replacement level starting small forward in the NBA.  Occasionally, if he is your 2nd, 3rd, or 4th option offensively, he can go off for 25-30+ points.  Nevertheless, he's rarely going to actually win you a game by himself.

I'd say that makes him pretty amazing at basketball, objectively speaking.  In the context of the NBA, it means he's pretty good, though not a building block.  Will probably retire having played on at least a handful of different teams, but if he doesn't suffer any major injuries he'll be a useful player for a long time.

I agree with this. I think there's a pretty good chance he breaks 20+ this season, but I also think that if that happens we are sucking like one of those new-age dyson ball vacuums.

[crimson_stallion]

A lot of people talk about Green's play last season as a fluke - only scored 40 in one game, only turned it on for a short stretch, etc.  But, there are a few points that leave me believing this was more than just a fluke:


The '40 point' game
It's true, Jeff Green only had one 40 point game last season.  But in addition to scoring 40 against the best team in basketball, he also played suffocating defense against the best player in basketball, effectively shutting down Lebron every time he touched the ball.  From memory Lebron shot something like 35% from the field on possessions in which he was guarded by Jeff Green.  To score 40 against the best team in the league AND shut down the best player in the league in the very same game - even if it was only one game - is an amazing feat.


Performance as a Starter
When Tony Delk scored 50 in a game that was a one off scoring outburst - a 'fluke' if you will.  Jeff Green started 17 regular season games for the Celtics last season, and in those 17 games he scored 40+ points once, 30+ points twice, 20+ points 5 times and 15+ points twice.  His "Per 36" numbers over the stretch?  20.5 PPG, 6.0 RPG, 3.0 APG, 52% FG, 52% 3PT.  He may not score 40 too many times in his lifetime, but for Jeff to put up good scoring numbers is not a once-off occurance.

There was a clear distinction between JG's average as a starter versus his average as a backup, where his "Per 36" numbers are a much less impressive 15.4 PPG, 4.8 RPG, 1.7 APG, 44% FG, 33% 3PT. 

I believe the backup vs starter difference comes down to his playing style, which I do not feel is well suited to an "off the bench" role.  A great bench scorer needs to need to be able to come off the bench cold and throw up shots without hessitation or without any conscience - you basically need to think "score" every time you touch the ball.  Somebody like Jordan Crawford, Paul Pierce, Jamaal Crawford or James Harden (in OKC days) is a perfect example of that guys who could excel in a "scorer off the bench" role. 

Jeff Green doesn't really have that type of mentality though.  Like KG, JG seems to be more of a passive style of offensive player who likes to let the offense come to him.  Like KG in his prime, Jeff will still get his points over the course of a 35-40 minute game simply because he is too good a scorer not to.  However, if you're only throwing him out there for 25 minutes a night (in 6 minute blocks) then a player like Green probably won't have enough time out there to get comfortable and get in to a rythm.   

I really believe that Jeff Green is at his best offensively when he is starting and playing 35+ minutes per night, because this scenario gives him the time to get comfort zone and find those scoring opportunities.  Once he does get comfortable and gerts in the zone he is capable of exploding for 15 points in 8 minutes and is more than capable of being a 20+ PPG scorer.


Performance in big moments
During the season Jeff hit multiple game winners.  He also was Boston's best scorer (averaging over 20 PPG) in Boston's playoff series against the Knicks.  Finally, Jeff has put up some incredible defensive performances against some of the leagues most elite small forwards - Lebron James, Kevin Durant and Carmello Anthony are just a few guys that Jeff has effectively shut down on the defensive end in matchups.  All of this tells me that JG is not afraid of the big moment - if anything he seems to have a tendancy to elevate his game to another level when on the big stage.  This is one of the key attributes that separates a star player from a 'good' player - the ability to excel under extreme pressure.  It's a fairly small sample size, but last year Jeff showed me that he has the ability to step in to that role, and that to me is a great sign.

Of course I'm not saying Jeff Green is going to explode for 29 PPG, win DPOTY and take over Lebron as the best player in the NBA.  All I'm saying is that, from what I've seen so far, he has the ability to be a very good player and borderline All-Star.  I think 17/5/2.5 (just under Paul George numbers) is his absolute worst case, while an absolute best case of 23/7/3 is not outside of the realm of possibility.