Jeff Green is not a very good basketball player

[timobusa]

Jeff Green is a good player.



Jeff Green is not the star that some think he will magically morph into. 


Once you stop looking for him to be the "star", the easier it will be to watch him.

THIS!!!!!!

[Donoghus]

Green's a 3rd banana.

If you expect more than him, more often than not, he'll disappoint you.

If you expect him to be a scrub, he's going to disappoint you in that aspect too.

[Monkhouse]

It is not about "should", it is about "is".




In the NBA, players take games off. 




There are exception.  Wallace never took a game off.  That's why he and the Bobcats were better in the regular season then in the playoffs.  They played at top level through out the season while other teams were less consistent.  Come playoff time, those other teams notched it up another gear.  The Bobcats didn't have another gear left.  They got creamed.

To bring this back to Green, and what makes it frusterating to watch, is that he has the talent to be a very good player.  I'd say a borderline all star level talent.  But his unwillingness to step up, and be that guy, is perplexing.  If Paul Pierce was here and took the night off, that is one thing, but for Green to do it is another

I'm hopeful that Stevens demands him to be be in attack mode 100% of the time, and if not, sit his butt down.  Maybe that will get through to him, because waiting for the light bulb in Greens head to turn on by it self, isn't working.

You know even Paul Pierce takes the night off on preseason games especially..

So just stop it... wait until you see a few more actual season games.. And how do you know Stevens told Green to save and reserve his energy?

So why did Marc Gasol/Joakim Noah sit their respective games out?

Why did the Pacers give Paul George/Hibbert no more than 25 minutes?
Come on dude its pre-season... The point is to experiment and see which line up works the best depending on teams different specialties. The whole point of pre-season is also for Stevens to really understand and grasp the mental aspect of rotations..


Get over it seriously. Paul Pierce has taken a few preseason games, hell I think I remember one where he played 17 minutes top.

[Enzzo]

He absolutely has the potential to be a great player, to say hes not a good player is absurd. His main focus should be consistency, he has games where he attacks the basket, has full control over the ball and is opening the court. He needs to have the confidence to go out like that every night.

[aingeforthree]

He absolutely has the potential to be a great player, to say hes not a good player is absurd. His main focus should be consistency, he has games where he attacks the basket, has full control over the ball and is opening the court. He needs to have the confidence to go out like that every night.

I think you're exactly right.  He's got the body and skills to be dominant at his position.  As you state, it's about him attacking the rim and not playing outside behind that 3 pt line.

[moiso]

Jeff Green is a fair player.  A decent player.  I wouldn't even call him good. Good implies above average, and Green is not above average, as a starter anyway. He once scored 43pts... so what? 

He was in the familiar sleep walk mode last night.  If he couldn't stay engaged last year playing for Doc and with KG and Pierce, it may be even more of an issue this year.

[aporel#18]

Jeff Green is not a very good basketball player, he's a great basketball player.

Eh...  My definition of "great" is a little different, I guess.  "Great" implies that a player plays at a high level consistently, relative to his peers.  That's not Jeff Green, at least not yet.  Green shows flashes of greatness, but historically, he's shown an equal number of flashes of mediocrity.

I hope he can build on his second half from last year.  He had a sustained run of very good basketball, and I'm hoping that that carries forward into this season.

Fair enough, Roy. I still think he's great because he's shown he can be in actual games against the best. If he was great on a consistent basis, he'd be a star player. He hasn't shown that yet, as you say, and I don't know if he can be a star.

I think we can hope, but not expect him to be a star. This is a team game, what I expect is for Jeff Green to do what's best for the team and follow Coach Stevens plan. At some point, that would imply attacking the basket more than a couple of times a game. He'll be fine.

[Enzzo]

Jeff Green is not a very good basketball player, he's a great basketball player.

Eh...  My definition of "great" is a little different, I guess.  "Great" implies that a player plays at a high level consistently, relative to his peers.  That's not Jeff Green, at least not yet.  Green shows flashes of greatness, but historically, he's shown an equal number of flashes of mediocrity.

I hope he can build on his second half from last year.  He had a sustained run of very good basketball, and I'm hoping that that carries forward into this season.

Fair enough, Roy. I still think he's great because he's shown he can be in actual games against the best. If he was great on a consistent basis, he'd be a star player. He hasn't shown that yet, as you say, and I don't know if he can be a star.

I think we can hope, but not expect him to be a star. This is a team game, what I expect is for Jeff Green to do what's best for the team and follow Coach Stevens plan. At some point, that would imply attacking the basket more than a couple of times a game. He'll be fine.

Exactly. I'm sure Stevens has been watching footage of these guys the past couple years. He must see that Jeff Green has the ability to charge the lane and take control, and when he does it turns mediocre Green into great Green.

[Fan from VT]

Jeff Green is not a very good basketball player, he's a great basketball player.

Eh...  My definition of "great" is a little different, I guess.  "Great" implies that a player plays at a high level consistently, relative to his peers.  That's not Jeff Green, at least not yet.  Green shows flashes of greatness, but historically, he's shown an equal number of flashes of mediocrity.

I hope he can build on his second half from last year.  He had a sustained run of very good basketball, and I'm hoping that that carries forward into this season.

Fair enough, Roy. I still think he's great because he's shown he can be in actual games against the best. If he was great on a consistent basis, he'd be a star player. He hasn't shown that yet, as you say, and I don't know if he can be a star.

I think we can hope, but not expect him to be a star. This is a team game, what I expect is for Jeff Green to do what's best for the team and follow Coach Stevens plan. At some point, that would imply attacking the basket more than a couple of times a game. He'll be fine.

Exactly. I'm sure Stevens has been watching footage of these guys the past couple years. He must see that Jeff Green has the ability to charge the lane and take control, and when he does it turns mediocre Green into great Green.

How many "Great" players are there in the NBA? 50? 100?

[indeedproceed]

Jeff Green is not a very good basketball player, he's a great basketball player.

Eh...  My definition of "great" is a little different, I guess.  "Great" implies that a player plays at a high level consistently, relative to his peers.  That's not Jeff Green, at least not yet.  Green shows flashes of greatness, but historically, he's shown an equal number of flashes of mediocrity.

I hope he can build on his second half from last year.  He had a sustained run of very good basketball, and I'm hoping that that carries forward into this season.

Fair enough, Roy. I still think he's great because he's shown he can be in actual games against the best. If he was great on a consistent basis, he'd be a star player. He hasn't shown that yet, as you say, and I don't know if he can be a star.

I think we can hope, but not expect him to be a star. This is a team game, what I expect is for Jeff Green to do what's best for the team and follow Coach Stevens plan. At some point, that would imply attacking the basket more than a couple of times a game. He'll be fine.

Exactly. I'm sure Stevens has been watching footage of these guys the past couple years. He must see that Jeff Green has the ability to charge the lane and take control, and when he does it turns mediocre Green into great Green.

How many "Great" players are there in the NBA? 50? 100?

Being in the NBA's top 50 is a pretty big deal.

[Enzzo]

Jeff Green is not a very good basketball player, he's a great basketball player.

Eh...  My definition of "great" is a little different, I guess.  "Great" implies that a player plays at a high level consistently, relative to his peers.  That's not Jeff Green, at least not yet.  Green shows flashes of greatness, but historically, he's shown an equal number of flashes of mediocrity.

I hope he can build on his second half from last year.  He had a sustained run of very good basketball, and I'm hoping that that carries forward into this season.

Fair enough, Roy. I still think he's great because he's shown he can be in actual games against the best. If he was great on a consistent basis, he'd be a star player. He hasn't shown that yet, as you say, and I don't know if he can be a star.

I think we can hope, but not expect him to be a star. This is a team game, what I expect is for Jeff Green to do what's best for the team and follow Coach Stevens plan. At some point, that would imply attacking the basket more than a couple of times a game. He'll be fine.

Exactly. I'm sure Stevens has been watching footage of these guys the past couple years. He must see that Jeff Green has the ability to charge the lane and take control, and when he does it turns mediocre Green into great Green.

How many "Great" players are there in the NBA? 50? 100?

My use of the word great is an interpretation. I could say I think a certain player is great and you can disagree. What I'm saying is when Jeff Green attacks the basket and has the confidence to not dish the ball the second he touches it, in my opinion he is a great player. He also has games where he's not even a factor.

Which was my main point. He has the potential to play very well, but he lacks consistency.

[badshar]

please don't start this its just one game argument. Its not just one game. It is what it is. All last season you apologist kept saying wait wait. There is no reason to wait. This are well paid professionals that should come to play every day.

LOL, you're probably the type of person that when you get a little scratch on you, you think you're gonna die.

It's one game, pre-season game at that.
Jeff Green took a day off, maybe still on vacation mode.

He played 23 minutes 6 points 2 blocks 1 steal 1 rebound and 2 assist.

And he was not even trying at all tonight.
He took a night off, get over it.

As long as he doesn't "take a night off" during regular season...

[Fan from VT]

Jeff Green is not a very good basketball player, he's a great basketball player.

Eh...  My definition of "great" is a little different, I guess.  "Great" implies that a player plays at a high level consistently, relative to his peers.  That's not Jeff Green, at least not yet.  Green shows flashes of greatness, but historically, he's shown an equal number of flashes of mediocrity.

I hope he can build on his second half from last year.  He had a sustained run of very good basketball, and I'm hoping that that carries forward into this season.

Fair enough, Roy. I still think he's great because he's shown he can be in actual games against the best. If he was great on a consistent basis, he'd be a star player. He hasn't shown that yet, as you say, and I don't know if he can be a star.

I think we can hope, but not expect him to be a star. This is a team game, what I expect is for Jeff Green to do what's best for the team and follow Coach Stevens plan. At some point, that would imply attacking the basket more than a couple of times a game. He'll be fine.

Exactly. I'm sure Stevens has been watching footage of these guys the past couple years. He must see that Jeff Green has the ability to charge the lane and take control, and when he does it turns mediocre Green into great Green.

How many "Great" players are there in the NBA? 50? 100?

My use of the word great is an interpretation. I could say I think a certain player is great and you can disagree. What I'm saying is when Jeff Green attacks the basket and has the confidence to not dish the ball the second he touches it, in my opinion he is a great player. He also has games where he's not even a factor.

Which was my main point. He has the potential to play very well, but he lacks consistency.

Couple points:

1. It's a thread about how good a player is, so be prepared to be debated on your stance.

2. We use words to share ideas about a concept (in this case, a player), so agreeing what words mean is important. For example, "Jeff Green is not a very good basketball player" has at least two meanings. It could be that players are Terrible, Very bad, bad, Eh, Good, Very good, Great, Stars. In this case, Jeff Green might be Eh to Good. Literally, not "very good."  On the other, colloquially, we often use the specific phrase "not very good" as a stand in for "isn't good" as in actively "bad."

3. Expressing your evaluation as an "opinion" does not insulate it from debate or make it not-debatable or not-evaluatable. There are objective measures by which Green is shown to be "not very good" unless you look at a few select months of his 5 year career and ignore the rest.



Anyway, the point I'm bringing up is that if you expand the term "great" to include players who have shown aggression and who have shown isolated observable temporary flashes of excellence, then every single team has a few players who are "great," rendering "great" fairly unremarkable.

[Enzzo]

Jeff Green is not a very good basketball player, he's a great basketball player.

Eh...  My definition of "great" is a little different, I guess.  "Great" implies that a player plays at a high level consistently, relative to his peers.  That's not Jeff Green, at least not yet.  Green shows flashes of greatness, but historically, he's shown an equal number of flashes of mediocrity.

I hope he can build on his second half from last year.  He had a sustained run of very good basketball, and I'm hoping that that carries forward into this season.

Fair enough, Roy. I still think he's great because he's shown he can be in actual games against the best. If he was great on a consistent basis, he'd be a star player. He hasn't shown that yet, as you say, and I don't know if he can be a star.

I think we can hope, but not expect him to be a star. This is a team game, what I expect is for Jeff Green to do what's best for the team and follow Coach Stevens plan. At some point, that would imply attacking the basket more than a couple of times a game. He'll be fine.

Exactly. I'm sure Stevens has been watching footage of these guys the past couple years. He must see that Jeff Green has the ability to charge the lane and take control, and when he does it turns mediocre Green into great Green.

How many "Great" players are there in the NBA? 50? 100?

My use of the word great is an interpretation. I could say I think a certain player is great and you can disagree. What I'm saying is when Jeff Green attacks the basket and has the confidence to not dish the ball the second he touches it, in my opinion he is a great player. He also has games where he's not even a factor.

Which was my main point. He has the potential to play very well, but he lacks consistency.

Couple points:

1. It's a thread about how good a player is, so be prepared to be debated on your stance.

2. We use words to share ideas about a concept (in this case, a player), so agreeing what words mean is important. For example, "Jeff Green is not a very good basketball player" has at least two meanings. It could be that players are Terrible, Very bad, bad, Eh, Good, Very good, Great, Stars. In this case, Jeff Green might be Eh to Good. Literally, not "very good."  On the other, colloquially, we often use the specific phrase "not very good" as a stand in for "isn't good" as in actively "bad."

3. Expressing your evaluation as an "opinion" does not insulate it from debate or make it not-debatable or not-evaluatable. There are objective measures by which Green is shown to be "not very good" unless you look at a few select months of his 5 year career and ignore the rest.



Anyway, the point I'm bringing up is that if you expand the term "great" to include players who have shown aggression and who have shown isolated observable temporary flashes of excellence, then every single team has a few players who are "great," rendering "great" fairly unremarkable.

Absolutely, and I agree with that. I was saying that he certainly has the potential to be a great basketball player, and I do think in the near future he will be. But only if he works on his confidence and his ability to control the ball. Thank you for lesson on debating and what "not very good" means but I meant no disrespect, just throwing in my 2 cents.

[Celtics18]

I love this debate.

Is Jeff Green "great" or is he "not very good"?  These are your only choices.