To Tank or Not To Tank, That is the Question

[D.o.s.]

To be perfectly honest, I'm always baffled by the idea that people think tanking happens with the players. I always put it on the coaches and management.

That's one of the things I'm talking about when I say people are using words to mean different things.

Tanking doesn't seem nearly so morally reprehensible when it's just an organization strategy of prioritizing something other than winning in the current season.

I don't think players or coaches actually "throw" games very often.  But teams "throw" seasons all the time.

Right. The only team I can think of throwing games like that is the Nets in last year's playoffs--and I don't think they were "tanking," I just think they were all in "cash that check" mode.

[Celtics18]

To be perfectly honest, I'm always baffled by the idea that people think tanking happens with the players. I always put it on the coaches and management.

That's one of the things I'm talking about when I say people are using words to mean different things.

Tanking doesn't seem nearly so morally reprehensible when it's just an organization strategy of prioritizing something other than winning in the current season.

I don't think players or coaches actually "throw" games very often.  But teams "throw" seasons all the time.

Right. The only team I can think of throwing games like that is the Nets in last year's playoffs--and I don't think they were "tanking," I just think they were all in "cash that check" mode.

I can't wait to see the 2013-2014 Celtics beat the tank. 

[D.o.s.]

I see us winning about 25 games (based on my guess that Rondo'll be out 'til around Christmas).

After all, (I think) we're playing the Sixers four times this year. Picking up an extra 21 wins on top of that seems feasible.

[LilRip]

I see us winning about 25 games (based on my guess that Rondo'll be out 'til around Christmas).

After all, (I think) we're playing the Sixers four times this year. Picking up an extra 21 wins on top of that seems feasible.

25 games seems about right. and i do hope KO lives up to the hype. i think he'd flourish in a 6th man role where he can score a ton of buckets against the opposing teams bench.

[Tr1boy]

Three reasons why tanking is not a priority

1) 70-80 percent of last years lineup is still here. If danny was serious about a big tank job, rondo, green, bradley would be gone by now. The 76rs management is ready to tank, the celts are not

2) the celts have 8-9 1st round picks in the next several years. Could literally buy 3 top 10-12 picks

3) brad stevens hire. Makes little to no sense if a tank job is in order. Danny could of easily let an intern bench boss guide the celts to nowhere while saving money. 


So as of the start of the year , i seriously doubt a tank order or attitude is in place. Def team is rebuilding but a playoff make would be nice progress. Keep in mind also danny might end up becoming the hunter come trade deadline time, use lots of picks/assets to get the team one or two younger all star calibre Players. We saw this happen in  07-08 year.

[chambers]

Three reasons why tanking is not a priority

1) 70-80 percent of last years lineup is still here. If danny was serious about a big tank job, rondo, green, bradley would be gone by now. The 76rs management is ready to tank, the celts are not

2) the celts have 8-9 1st round picks in the next several years. Could literally buy 3 top 10-12 picks

3) brad stevens hire. Makes little to no sense if a tank job is in order. Danny could of easily let an intern bench boss guide the celts to nowhere while saving money. 


So as of the start of the year , i seriously doubt a tank order or attitude is in place. Def team is rebuilding but a playoff make would be nice progress. Keep in mind also danny might end up becoming the hunter come trade deadline time, use lots of picks/assets to get the team one or two younger all star calibre Players. We saw this happen in  07-08 year.

Sounds like you're clutching at straws here a little.

1) 80% of the roster is still here? Rondo's been injured, and the roster can be moved for another 6 months. If Rondo is going to be traded at max value, Danny is going to let him recover and play a bit first.
We lost our captain and best offensive player. We lost our defensive leader and locker room leader- or the 'soul' of the organization.
We lost our 6th man in Terry, and we lost our championship coach because he didn't want to be part of a rebuild.

2)We have all those picks in the late teens or higher. We didn't trade for veterans of any value- we took the scraps from another wannabe contender that wanted our championship players.
We are absorbing salary like Wallace and Humphries which is what tanking teams generally do- take on bad contracts for draft picks.

The draft is one of the most stacked in NBA history. It really is. Even if it's a one year tank job while Rondo recovers- there is the possibility of picking up a Durant type franchise player or an Oden/Melo/Wade type guy- maybe not a Lebron but there are still multiple players with franchise potential which you do not see very often. One every few seasons is normal but up to three or 4 guys like that hasn't been seen since Lebron/Melo/Wade.

If we don't have a shot at any free agents and we want a franchise guy- isn't this a great chance to get someone like that?
Even if we whiff and miss on a franchise guy we'll end up with a pick that could give us the leverage to get a major free agent or impact player whilst keeping Rondo and Green.
As this stage, who is giving up their best player for anything other than Rondo or a package with Green, Sully and Olynyk etc?

3) If we wanted a quick rebuild, it makes ZERO sense to hire a young coach who's never coached any NBA in his life, and signed him to a six year deal. Doesn't that scream 'hey Brad here's 6 years to work with so no pressure- we don't expect you to win straight away.'
How does hiring Stevens show that tanking is not a priority? If anything it promotes the idea that we want this guy to coach younger college age guys in a new system- and that he has 6 years to prove himself.

How does Danny become the hunter without trading Rondo and Green? What assets do we have to land 2 all Star players whilst keeping Rondo? Doesn't make any sense. He needs a pick. He's talked about it on radio that you need high level lottery picks in the top 3 for leverage and that you have far less leverage with picks outside the top 5.

I don't think Danny has told Stevens to throw games- I think he's just said that our focus is on drafting as high as we can whilst developing the guys we have into trade assets or pieces we'll keep. Tanking isn't just throwing individual games or a stretch of games- it comes from head office to the court.
Look at our line up. For the billionth time I'll highlight the fact that we have no inside defensive presence and will give up more points in the paint than pretty much every other team in the NBA. Who do we have as a defensive stopper inside?
We have no shooters. No jumpshooters, no three point shooters. Sure we have Brooks and Crawford, and Rondo can hit a nice 10-15 footer, but the two aforementioned are chuckers and our best shooter is Jeff Green. Who shoots threes?
How do we score inside too? Is Sully in his sophomore season going to score inside against all the best paint defenders in the NBA as 2nd year player? Is Olynyk gonna score 20 points a game as a rookie with plantar fal problems? Don't worry though because the Brazilian Faverani is gonna come in and score 4 points and 5 rebounds in 15 minutes a night!
If you think we're making a playoff push you're completely kidding yourself. We can't score and we won't be able to defend the paint- it's an obvious tank job straight from the top.

You say we still have 80% of our roster.
But we lost 90% of our soul and identity. We don't know when our best player will be back and they're saying he'll probably miss the start of the season- even though he appears to have fully recovered? We also don't know if he'll be traded or if we'll build around him. He is a free agent in 2 seasons and to think that Danny can pull a rabbit our of a hat like he did with KG and Ray is not realistic. I mean he'll try but it will be EXTREMELY hard to get Rondo some championship level help.
People love to berate the lottery and how much of a crapshoot it is. Free agency and trading for All Star level free agents is JUST AS BIG A CRAP SHOOT. Look at Lebron James and the Dwight Howard circus between LA, Houston, Golden State, Dallas, Clippers. How close were we to signing David West 3 seasons ago?
You have to get insanely lucky to get one, let alone two All Star level players via free agency.
At least Danny understands that to give yourself the best shot, you must have options on all levels of free agency, trades AND the draft.

Then there's the current roster...
No paint defense. No shooting. Rookie coach in his first 72 game nation wide NBA season. Our GM is a gambler- but he's a smart gambler. He'll roll the dice on the draft but he'll also keep his options open. Unfortunately though the one path he must take to acquire an asset good enough to trade for someone like Kevin Love is a top 5 pick.
He'll wanna get Rondo some All Star help but that's going to be very hard- so he'll have the draft as back up.
Don't be surprised if Rondo is gone within 6 months and we have two picks in the top 3-10 in the 2014 NBA draft.
Very real possibility of this happening.
If this team was serious about making playoffs and adding a piece here or there why didn't we go after Paul Millsap for 9.5 million a year? Rondo, Green, Millsap + free agent = serious playoff team/ 2nd round exit. All we'd need is one more All Star talent and we'd be top 8 NBA team material.
Why didn't he take that route? Instead he hired the rookie coach and didn't replace the defense, scoring and clutch level that KG+Pierece+Terry all gave us. He GUTTED us, but it was probably for the betterment of the organization.

[Celtics18]

Look at our line up. For the billionth time I'll highlight the fact that we have no inside defensive presence and will give up more points in the paint than pretty much every other team in the NBA. Who do we have as a defensive stopper inside?
We have no shooters. No jumpshooters, no three point shooters. Sure we have Brooks and Crawford, and Rondo can hit a nice 10-15 footer, but the two aforementioned are chuckers and our best shooter is Jeff Green. Who shoots threes?
How do we score inside too? Is Sully in his sophomore season going to score inside against all the best paint defenders in the NBA as 2nd year player? Is Olynyk gonna score 20 points a game as a rookie with plantar fal problems? Don't worry though because the Brazilian Faverani is gonna come in and score 4 points and 5 rebounds in 15 minutes a night!
If you think we're making a playoff push you're completely kidding yourself. We can't score and we won't be able to defend the paint- it's an obvious tank job straight from the top.

True, we have no elite interior defensive presence.  What we do have is very good defenders on the perimeter.  The team will have to maximize that strength by putting a lot of pressure on the ball early, making it difficult for opposing teams to get into sets.  Our undersized front line won't have Kevin Garnett or even a Perk, but they'll compete and attempt to protect the paint.

I don't think our defense is likely to be as good as its been since '08, but I do think that it will be considerably better than being one of the most porous in the league.

Offensively, one of the advantages we still have is that we have one of the best players in the league at getting into the paint off the dribble.  Having an elite creator of shots is essential to having a competitive basketball team.  A majority of the good shots that Rondo creates are for other players, as opposed to for himself. 

We have a very talented Jack-of-all trades type scorer in Jeff Green.  He will be able to carry a heavy part of the burden, being able to have the ball in his hands some to score off the dribble an pull up, score in transition, spot up for threes, and hopefully show some more off-the-ball adeptness as well. 

Everyone else is a role player offensively, but I think we have some decent ones.  Sully will work inside.  He'll establish position, and he'll be a garbage man on the glass and on dives to the basket.  Avery has shown to be a very good off the ball cutter in the past, and I think his spot up three point shooting form will settle in somewhere between last year's percentage and the much better one from two years ago.  Lee is a very good spot up three point shooter, as well. 
Brandon will continue to get those open mid range jump shots off pick and pops and Rondo penetration.  Maybe it's too early, but I think the Klynyk will find some minutes, and find a way to be a matchup headache for opposing teams.  I also think Marshon will get a chance to be an added playmaker out there.

I'm not trying to paint a picture of one of the elite, championship contenders here.  I'll be realistic enough to say that I don't think we are going to be anywhere near that level.  I do, however, when comparing our team to other mediocre to pretty good teams in the league, think that we'll have a chance to compete for a playoff berth in the East. 

The 2008 through 2013 Celtics aren't our competition for that last playoff spot.  The competition is the Cavs, the Pistons, the Wizards, the Raptors, and the Hawks.  I think we've been spoiled over the past five years to the point where many of the fans feel that if we aren't going to be in the running for first, the only other place worth being is worst.

I do think that this team is capable of winning as many or more games than it loses.  Regardless of Danny's plan, I want to see coach Stevens and the players plan be just that--to win as many games as possible. 

In the end, I just think that this team will end up surprising many of the folks who have them pegged for less than 25 wins and one of the five worst records in the league. 

[chambers]

Look at our line up. For the billionth time I'll highlight the fact that we have no inside defensive presence and will give up more points in the paint than pretty much every other team in the NBA. Who do we have as a defensive stopper inside?
We have no shooters. No jumpshooters, no three point shooters. Sure we have Brooks and Crawford, and Rondo can hit a nice 10-15 footer, but the two aforementioned are chuckers and our best shooter is Jeff Green. Who shoots threes?
How do we score inside too? Is Sully in his sophomore season going to score inside against all the best paint defenders in the NBA as 2nd year player? Is Olynyk gonna score 20 points a game as a rookie with plantar fal problems? Don't worry though because the Brazilian Faverani is gonna come in and score 4 points and 5 rebounds in 15 minutes a night!
If you think we're making a playoff push you're completely kidding yourself. We can't score and we won't be able to defend the paint- it's an obvious tank job straight from the top.

True, we have no elite interior defensive presence.  What we do have is very good defenders on the perimeter.  The team will have to maximize that strength by putting a lot of pressure on the ball early, making it difficult for opposing teams to get into sets.  Our undersized front line won't have Kevin Garnett or even a Perk, but they'll compete and attempt to protect the paint.

I don't think our defense is likely to be as good as its been since '08, but I do think that it will be considerably better than being one of the most porous in the league.

Offensively, one of the advantages we still have is that we have one of the best players in the league at getting into the paint off the dribble.  Having an elite creator of shots is essential to having a competitive basketball team.  A majority of the good shots that Rondo creates are for other players, as opposed to for himself. 

We have a very talented Jack-of-all trades type scorer in Jeff Green.  He will be able to carry a heavy part of the burden, being able to have the ball in his hands some to score off the dribble an pull up, score in transition, spot up for threes, and hopefully show some more off-the-ball adeptness as well. 

Everyone else is a role player offensively, but I think we have some decent ones.  Sully will work inside.  He'll establish position, and he'll be a garbage man on the glass and on dives to the basket.  Avery has shown to be a very good off the ball cutter in the past, and I think his spot up three point shooting form will settle in somewhere between last year's percentage and the much better one from two years ago.  Lee is a very good spot up three point shooter, as well. 
Brandon will continue to get those open mid range jump shots off pick and pops and Rondo penetration.  Maybe it's too early, but I think the Klynyk will find some minutes, and find a way to be a matchup headache for opposing teams.  I also think Marshon will get a chance to be an added playmaker out there.

I'm not trying to paint a picture of one of the elite, championship contenders here.  I'll be realistic enough to say that I don't think we are going to be anywhere near that level.  I do, however, when comparing our team to other mediocre to pretty good teams in the league, think that we'll have a chance to compete for a playoff berth in the East. 

The 2008 through 2013 Celtics aren't our competition for that last playoff spot.  The competition is the Cavs, the Pistons, the Wizards, the Raptors, and the Hawks.  I think we've been spoiled over the past five years to the point where many of the fans feel that if we aren't going to be in the running for first, the only other place worth being is worst.

I do think that this team is capable of winning as many or more games than it loses.  Regardless of Danny's plan, I want to see coach Stevens and the players plan be just that--to win as many games as possible. 

In the end, I just think that this team will end up surprising many of the folks who have them pegged for less than 25 wins and one of the five worst records in the league.

I'm in a rush so I'll continue discussing our beloved tank yay/nay arguments further a bit later. I'd just like to point out that last season with KG and Pierce we made the 7th seed and won 41 games. All of those teams we are competing with for a 'playoff berth' have improved while we have gotten significantly worse- in fact most of those teams have gotten significantly better. Is it fair to say that's a true statement?

[D.o.s.]

Three reasons why tanking is not a priority

1) 70-80 percent of last years lineup is still here. If danny was serious about a big tank job, rondo, green, bradley would be gone by now. The 76rs management is ready to tank, the celts are not

2) the celts have 8-9 1st round picks in the next several years. Could literally buy 3 top 10-12 picks

3) brad stevens hire. Makes little to no sense if a tank job is in order. Danny could of easily let an intern bench boss guide the celts to nowhere while saving money. 


So as of the start of the year , i seriously doubt a tank order or attitude is in place. Def team is rebuilding but a playoff make would be nice progress. Keep in mind also danny might end up becoming the hunter come trade deadline time, use lots of picks/assets to get the team one or two younger all star calibre Players. We saw this happen in  07-08 year.

Sounds like you're clutching at straws here a little.

1) 80% of the roster is still here? Rondo's been injured, and the roster can be moved for another 6 months. If Rondo is going to be traded at max value, Danny is going to let him recover and play a bit first.
We lost our captain and best offensive player. We lost our defensive leader and locker room leader- or the 'soul' of the organization.
We lost our 6th man in Terry, and we lost our championship coach because he didn't want to be part of a rebuild.

2)We have all those picks in the late teens or higher. We didn't trade for veterans of any value- we took the scraps from another wannabe contender that wanted our championship players.
We are absorbing salary like Wallace and Humphries which is what tanking teams generally do- take on bad contracts for draft picks.

The draft is one of the most stacked in NBA history. It really is. Even if it's a one year tank job while Rondo recovers- there is the possibility of picking up a Durant type franchise player or an Oden/Melo/Wade type guy- maybe not a Lebron but there are still multiple players with franchise potential which you do not see very often. One every few seasons is normal but up to three or 4 guys like that hasn't been seen since Lebron/Melo/Wade.

If we don't have a shot at any free agents and we want a franchise guy- isn't this a great chance to get someone like that?
Even if we whiff and miss on a franchise guy we'll end up with a pick that could give us the leverage to get a major free agent or impact player whilst keeping Rondo and Green.
As this stage, who is giving up their best player for anything other than Rondo or a package with Green, Sully and Olynyk etc?

3) If we wanted a quick rebuild, it makes ZERO sense to hire a young coach who's never coached any NBA in his life, and signed him to a six year deal. Doesn't that scream 'hey Brad here's 6 years to work with so no pressure- we don't expect you to win straight away.'
How does hiring Stevens show that tanking is not a priority? If anything it promotes the idea that we want this guy to coach younger college age guys in a new system- and that he has 6 years to prove himself.

How does Danny become the hunter without trading Rondo and Green? What assets do we have to land 2 all Star players whilst keeping Rondo? Doesn't make any sense. He needs a pick. He's talked about it on radio that you need high level lottery picks in the top 3 for leverage and that you have far less leverage with picks outside the top 5.

I don't think Danny has told Stevens to throw games- I think he's just said that our focus is on drafting as high as we can whilst developing the guys we have into trade assets or pieces we'll keep. Tanking isn't just throwing individual games or a stretch of games- it comes from head office to the court.
Look at our line up. For the billionth time I'll highlight the fact that we have no inside defensive presence and will give up more points in the paint than pretty much every other team in the NBA. Who do we have as a defensive stopper inside?
We have no shooters. No jumpshooters, no three point shooters. Sure we have Brooks and Crawford, and Rondo can hit a nice 10-15 footer, but the two aforementioned are chuckers and our best shooter is Jeff Green. Who shoots threes?
How do we score inside too? Is Sully in his sophomore season going to score inside against all the best paint defenders in the NBA as 2nd year player? Is Olynyk gonna score 20 points a game as a rookie with plantar fal problems? Don't worry though because the Brazilian Faverani is gonna come in and score 4 points and 5 rebounds in 15 minutes a night!
If you think we're making a playoff push you're completely kidding yourself. We can't score and we won't be able to defend the paint- it's an obvious tank job straight from the top.

You say we still have 80% of our roster.
But we lost 90% of our soul and identity. We don't know when our best player will be back and they're saying he'll probably miss the start of the season- even though he appears to have fully recovered? We also don't know if he'll be traded or if we'll build around him. He is a free agent in 2 seasons and to think that Danny can pull a rabbit our of a hat like he did with KG and Ray is not realistic. I mean he'll try but it will be EXTREMELY hard to get Rondo some championship level help.
People love to berate the lottery and how much of a crapshoot it is. Free agency and trading for All Star level free agents is JUST AS BIG A CRAP SHOOT. Look at Lebron James and the Dwight Howard circus between LA, Houston, Golden State, Dallas, Clippers. How close were we to signing David West 3 seasons ago?
You have to get insanely lucky to get one, let alone two All Star level players via free agency.
At least Danny understands that to give yourself the best shot, you must have options on all levels of free agency, trades AND the draft.

Then there's the current roster...
No paint defense. No shooting. Rookie coach in his first 72 game nation wide NBA season. Our GM is a gambler- but he's a smart gambler. He'll roll the dice on the draft but he'll also keep his options open. Unfortunately though the one path he must take to acquire an asset good enough to trade for someone like Kevin Love is a top 5 pick.
He'll wanna get Rondo some All Star help but that's going to be very hard- so he'll have the draft as back up.
Don't be surprised if Rondo is gone within 6 months and we have two picks in the top 3-10 in the 2014 NBA draft.
Very real possibility of this happening.
If this team was serious about making playoffs and adding a piece here or there why didn't we go after Paul Millsap for 9.5 million a year? Rondo, Green, Millsap + free agent = serious playoff team/ 2nd round exit. All we'd need is one more All Star talent and we'd be top 8 NBA team material.
Why didn't he take that route? Instead he hired the rookie coach and didn't replace the defense, scoring and clutch level that KG+Pierece+Terry all gave us. He GUTTED us, but it was probably for the betterment of the organization.

Nailed it. TP.

[Celtics18]

Look at our line up. For the billionth time I'll highlight the fact that we have no inside defensive presence and will give up more points in the paint than pretty much every other team in the NBA. Who do we have as a defensive stopper inside?
We have no shooters. No jumpshooters, no three point shooters. Sure we have Brooks and Crawford, and Rondo can hit a nice 10-15 footer, but the two aforementioned are chuckers and our best shooter is Jeff Green. Who shoots threes?
How do we score inside too? Is Sully in his sophomore season going to score inside against all the best paint defenders in the NBA as 2nd year player? Is Olynyk gonna score 20 points a game as a rookie with plantar fal problems? Don't worry though because the Brazilian Faverani is gonna come in and score 4 points and 5 rebounds in 15 minutes a night!
If you think we're making a playoff push you're completely kidding yourself. We can't score and we won't be able to defend the paint- it's an obvious tank job straight from the top.

True, we have no elite interior defensive presence.  What we do have is very good defenders on the perimeter.  The team will have to maximize that strength by putting a lot of pressure on the ball early, making it difficult for opposing teams to get into sets.  Our undersized front line won't have Kevin Garnett or even a Perk, but they'll compete and attempt to protect the paint.

I don't think our defense is likely to be as good as its been since '08, but I do think that it will be considerably better than being one of the most porous in the league.

Offensively, one of the advantages we still have is that we have one of the best players in the league at getting into the paint off the dribble.  Having an elite creator of shots is essential to having a competitive basketball team.  A majority of the good shots that Rondo creates are for other players, as opposed to for himself. 

We have a very talented Jack-of-all trades type scorer in Jeff Green.  He will be able to carry a heavy part of the burden, being able to have the ball in his hands some to score off the dribble an pull up, score in transition, spot up for threes, and hopefully show some more off-the-ball adeptness as well. 

Everyone else is a role player offensively, but I think we have some decent ones.  Sully will work inside.  He'll establish position, and he'll be a garbage man on the glass and on dives to the basket.  Avery has shown to be a very good off the ball cutter in the past, and I think his spot up three point shooting form will settle in somewhere between last year's percentage and the much better one from two years ago.  Lee is a very good spot up three point shooter, as well. 
Brandon will continue to get those open mid range jump shots off pick and pops and Rondo penetration.  Maybe it's too early, but I think the Klynyk will find some minutes, and find a way to be a matchup headache for opposing teams.  I also think Marshon will get a chance to be an added playmaker out there.

I'm not trying to paint a picture of one of the elite, championship contenders here.  I'll be realistic enough to say that I don't think we are going to be anywhere near that level.  I do, however, when comparing our team to other mediocre to pretty good teams in the league, think that we'll have a chance to compete for a playoff berth in the East. 

The 2008 through 2013 Celtics aren't our competition for that last playoff spot.  The competition is the Cavs, the Pistons, the Wizards, the Raptors, and the Hawks.  I think we've been spoiled over the past five years to the point where many of the fans feel that if we aren't going to be in the running for first, the only other place worth being is worst.

I do think that this team is capable of winning as many or more games than it loses.  Regardless of Danny's plan, I want to see coach Stevens and the players plan be just that--to win as many games as possible. 

In the end, I just think that this team will end up surprising many of the folks who have them pegged for less than 25 wins and one of the five worst records in the league.

I'm in a rush so I'll continue discussing our beloved tank yay/nay arguments further a bit later. I'd just like to point out that last season with KG and Pierce we made the 7th seed and won 41 games. All of those teams we are competing with for a 'playoff berth' have improved while we have gotten significantly worse- in fact most of those teams have gotten significantly better. Is it fair to say that's a true statement?

I don't think that's fair to say.  I think the Pistons have improved significantly, and I think that if Bynum is healthy that the Cavs have improved significantly (although, that's a big if).  I don't see the Wizards, Raptors, or Hawks being significantly improved teams.

[Tr1boy]

Chambers is there anything good you can say??

Superstar, superstar, superstar. Its all you care about

I have mentioned several teams like the pacers, grizzlies

Who still today dont really have a big star do really well

In the league.

Btw i love the hype the 2014 draft has been given but nobody even knows if wiggins, parker etc. will declare after one year of college play. Even if they do, unless they take their teams to the elite eight, they wont be ready or may have made a mistake coming out too early.

Most of the guys who have one year of college Experience under their belt if they declare are projected to be chosen in the 7-30 spots.

Lastly i want to say that we are in the similiar situation as we were pre big three. There was no mandate to tank. The team played hard, rondo got a earfull from doc and we still lost lots. This up coming celts team is arguably more talented with at least more experience depth = more wins

[Tr1boy]

Four other things i wanted to quickly mention

1. Terry now is labelled as our 6th guy when he was blasted to be traded most of the year

2. Pierce = missing in action during 4th quarter crunch time last year. Jeff green when he started also was better on both ends than pierce. (so our defense improves and offense just about stays the same , yet we have lack of offense now?)

3. Lots wanted rivers fired. Small ball galore, not giving or teaching his non regulars properly etc. Without superstars this guy cant coach a team. He knows it also

4. Kg defense the last 2 years have been mainly about fundementals, dedication, positioning, boxing out, teamwork, weakside help etc. It hasnt been about protecting the rim in terms of shot blocking. If he tried he was still able to go out and guard the pnr , but didnt nearly do as much of that last year.


Most of the time the reason why ppl cant defend is the lack of fundementals, discipline, teamwork etc.
Many many guys in the league are physical freaks by nature like deandre jordan. But a non freak like gasol, david west, and now older kg, duncan are still better defensively bc they can think at a higher level.

This is why im optimistic with sully and oly bc of their high iq, motor while providing plently of size upfront

[D.o.s.]

Chambers is there anything good you can say??

Superstar, superstar, superstar. Its all you care about

I have mentioned several teams like the pacers, grizzlies

Who still today dont really have a big star do really well

In the league.

Btw i love the hype the 2014 draft has been given but nobody even knows if wiggins, parker etc. will declare after one year of college play. Even if they do, unless they take their teams to the elite eight, they wont be ready or may have made a mistake coming out too early.

Most of the guys who have one year of college Experience under their belt if they declare are projected to be chosen in the 7-30 spots.

Lastly i want to say that we are in the similiar situation as we were pre big three. There was no mandate to tank. The team played hard, rondo got a earfull from doc and we still lost lots. This up coming celts team is arguably more talented with at least more experience depth = more wins

Barring injury, all those dudes are absolutely declaring after one year.

[D.o.s.]

Also, dude, if you really think that the C's have any players who are as vocal, engaged, and involved on defense as KG and can easily replicate what he brought to the floor, I mean...

Can I have some of whatever you're smoking?

[Celtics18]

The draft is one of the most stacked in NBA history. It really is. Even if it's a one year tank job while Rondo recovers- there is the possibility of picking up a Durant type franchise player or an Oden/Melo/Wade type guy- maybe not a Lebron but there are still multiple players with franchise potential which you do not see very often. One every few seasons is normal but up to three or 4 guys like that hasn't been seen since Lebron/Melo/Wade.

O.K., let's assume that the 2014 draft will indeed end up being one of the greatest drafts of all time.  Let's assume that there are three guys who end up being on the level of James, Wade, and Anthony.  We would need a bottom three record in the league to have a realistic shot at landing one of those guys. 

Even if we end up not being a playoff team, I see finishing with a bottom three record as being a very unrealistic scenario.  You say that Ainge has done his job stripping this team down to be a lottery team, but to be that bad, Stevens would have to actively contribute to the tank job, as well.

We'd need an M.L. Carr style tank, where players who are more likely to help us win are benched for players who are more likely to ensure that we lose games.  You seem to agree that you don't favor a "tank job" that is that cynical and, frankly, dishonest. 

I say that I think we can make the playoffs, but even if we don't, I find it hard to believe that if this team actually makes an effort to win as many games as possible that we would finish with any lower than the seventh or eighth worst record in the league. 

At that point, the difference between the 7th pick in the draft and the 15th pick in the draft isn't substantial enough for me to want to see my team lose games for a slightly higher position in the draft.