Kobe was drafted in the KG vein that would never happen today- coming out of high school and allowing teams to get lucky on an extremely young guy going global.
You can choose to discount Dirk and Pierce being drafted by their championship teams but it's just as important. Without those two players, there is no championship. The reason KG and Ray went there was because the organization was good enough to envision it happening- that and the fact that Pierce was there.
Again, you're ignoring the fact that of those championships or finals teams, 17 were achieved by a team that drafted it's own top 10 player and added pieces later. You've yet to acknowledge this fact. You also haven't acknowledged that this is the exact way we got KG and Ray here like that doesn't count in such a debate.
I guess we'll agree to disagree.
You think Rondo is a top 10 player based on a few 2010 and 2012 playoff runs where he was surrounded by multiple all stars- I'd say a sample size of maybe 15-20 games?
I think he's someone capable of playing at a top 10 level occasionally, but not night in and night out like a true top 10 player needs to do- ie Pierce or KG in their primes. He can't shoot, he can't hit free throws. The reality is he'll never be a top 10 player in the NBA. If you can't admit this you're in denial.
My opinion is that as we currently sit, Rondo and Green and a 7th seed are not enough to make us a serious title contender. It's certainly not enough to convince Rondo to stay past the 2014-15 season.
We need 2 more players on at least an All Star level. I don't know how we can afford 2 such players unless one of them is a draft pick or we trade trade Jeff Green or Rondo to acquire one of them.
You're touting Iverson, Brooks and Pressey as young talent. That's your opinion.
Rondo and Green, with Iverson, Brooks and Pressey- with Rondo coming off the books in 2015.
You're also suggesting that we can trade Lee, Bass, Wallace without giving up Rondo or Green.
Are you completely against drafting someone like Wiggins or Parker or Randle- or anyone else in this draft? Or are you just completely against having a losing squad for a season?
Do you understand why some fans like me would rather lose an extra 10 games if it meant heading into the 2015 off season with Rondo, Jabari Parker and Jeff Green, rather than Rondo, pick number 15 and Jeff Green?
1. I am not "choosing" to discount Dirk and Pierce, but it took them 8-10 years after the draft to win a championship. It is absolutely insane to tank to have a small shot at getting a top pick, who has a small shot at becoming a franchise player in order to win a title 8-10 years from now.
2. We disagree about Rondo but the fact is he has played 92 play off games, started every single one of them and averages 15, 9, 6 with 2 steals.
3. It is easy to accuse people of being in denial. Facts are that Rondo is a perennial all star, who has been all NBA defense 1st team, lead the league in steals per game and assists per game and is possibly the best rebounding point guard in the league.
4. One thing you do not seem to understand is that Bradley, Sullinger and Olynyk are 22 years old. Even if we do nothing at all they will get better. Furthermore, we have 2 first round picks to add to our core each year in order to improve our team. We will also have some cap space if we decide to move Bass, Lee and Wallace contracts.
So even if we do nothing, we will keep getting better as a team. So an 8th seed this year might become a 4th seed and a second round exit next year. It might become a contender the year after. This is speculation, but the point is the team is not "stuck."
As to your other speculations, they are just that and nothing more. Indiana was a first round exit team before West joined them. Houston was a first round exit before Dwight joined them. Knicks were a first round exit before Chandler joined them. On what basis can you say that a 7th seed is not enough to become a contender?
You have no evidence to suggest that Rondo will leave Boston, or even that we would be so bad that he would want to leave Boston. It is entirely hypothetical and not worth any attention.
We NEED two more players on an all star level? That is a statement that has no support behind it whatsoever. We will not be able to make any definitive statements about this team until we see it play at least half a season. It is a completely different team with a brand new coach.
Iverson, Brooks and Pressey are young so that is not a point of contention. I assume that you are saying it is my opinion that they are talents. That is correct. It is also the opinion of Danny Ainge who signed Pressey and Faverani over guys like Shavlik Randolph, Chris Wilcox, Terrence Williams etc. He also went through the trouble of purchasing a second round pick from the Pacers to draft Iverson. So there is some support to my opinion.
I am not against drafting Wiggins or Parker. What I am against is doing anything other than trying your absolute best to win every game in order to get a better draft pick.
There is a reason why people like KG change the culture where they go. There is a reason why talented teams like Sacramento Kings and Washington Wizards are unable to win games no matter how much talent they add to their roster. That reason is that culture is very important to the success of a franchise.
Teams that prioritize professionalism and winning become champions. Teams that lose games to try to get a better player are weak teams that develop bad habits, and teach their players losing is okay. Those teams will never win championships no matter how much talent you add to them.
I understand why fans would want pick number 1-5 over pick 15-20. But I would rather have a playoff team full of winners and 15th pick than than a team of losers and the 2nd pick. The 2nd pick may or may not work out, but a playoff team full of young and improving players is most certainly on the right path.
Speculation? Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?
Of course it's speculation...you're doing the exact same thing....it's opinion.
You think the talent we have is good enough. I don't.
You refuse to acknowledge the power of a top 10 player and the importance of multiple top level/all star players yet the last 20 years screams at you that with this pathetic roster we currently have we are in no mans land.
You skate around the question of how good Rondo is telling of wonderful playoff numbers...yet wont answer the simple question of .. 'Is Rondo a top 10 player in the NBA?'
I'm still waiting for an answer.
Your pride is admirable and understandable.
Dirk Nowitzki could have had that champ ship earlier. Management just took longer to solve the puzzle. Pierce had to wait until Ainge came into the picture. Still doesn't change the fact- with competent management like Ainge we would unlikely be waiting 10 years to get our stars help.
You're speculation of our young talent and late second round picks being anything other than they are statistically likely to be (bench role players who will most likely not be in the NBA within 5 seasons) is exactly that. In fact you're going against the statistics with regards to the importance of multiple top tier players. Apparently a top 50 wing guy in Jeff Green and a top 25 player in Rondo is enough to make us a contender with one additional piece- you also seem to think our rookies and sophomores are going to break the curve with their improvement when compared to the other rookies in NBA history.
We have a new coach with a 6 year contract and our best player is a point guard that can't shoot, coming off a major injury.
We have a bunch of washed up veterans as well as a 6 foot 2 shooting guard with lingering multiple injury history that can't shoot either.
We have a 6 foot 9 power forward in his second year and first year as a potential full time starter and a nice top 50 player in Jeff Green on the wing.
We can't shoot, we can't protect the paint and our coach has never coached an NBA game.
We also don't know when our point guard and best player will be back.
We are both 'speculating' but I'm not ignoring the facts and I'm not wearing green glasses as you appear to be.
I'm cool with dropping the discussion because we are going no where and aren't going to change our opinions or perceptions.
Ultimately we both love the team- we just have a different opinion of what's best for the team in the long run.
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Topic: To Tank or Not To Tank, That is the Question (Read 66206 times)