Author Topic: 2013 CB Draft : Draft Thread : VOTING ENDS 8:00PM EST TONIGHT  (Read 1154360 times)

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Re: 2013 CB Draft : Draft Thread - 3rd round open for business
« Reply #1396 on: August 21, 2013, 09:27:20 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Also none of the other 3 are no where near Holiday when it comes to being clutch.  8)

Holiday hasn't had the opportunity to be clutch.

He was on the Sixers.

He was on the sixers the year before also...

Holiday does have pretty good playoff stats (2 seasons).

His raw numbers are slightly inflated by his usage rate, however.  Conley had a .549 TS% vs Holiday's .493 TS% last year.

Re: 2013 CB Draft : Draft Thread - 3rd round open for business
« Reply #1397 on: August 21, 2013, 09:28:27 PM »

Offline rondoallaturca

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Also none of the other 3 are no where near Holiday when it comes to being clutch.  8)

Not sure if serious...

Holiday was #6 in "CLUTCH" stats on 82 games only behind Irving, Bryant, Paul, Durant, and Harden.

In terms of points scored in "clutch" moments (as defined as 82games)... the Sixers didn't exactly have many other offensive options so of course it's expected for Holiday to rank so high.

Re: 2013 CB Draft : Draft Thread - 3rd round open for business
« Reply #1398 on: August 21, 2013, 09:30:03 PM »

Offline ronaldo943

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Also none of the other 3 are no where near Holiday when it comes to being clutch.  8)

Not sure if serious...

Holiday was #6 in "CLUTCH" stats on 82 games only behind Irving, Bryant, Paul, Durant, and Harden.

In terms of points scored in "clutch" moments (as defined as 82games)... the Sixers didn't exactly have many other offensive options so of course it's expected for Holiday to rank so high.

That goes both ways though since the Sixers had such a crappy core all eyes were on Holiday. I mean when you look at the fact that he led such a crappy supporting cast to 34 wins it's quite amazing.

Re: 2013 CB Draft : Draft Thread - 3rd round open for business
« Reply #1399 on: August 21, 2013, 09:30:27 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

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Also none of the other 3 are no where near Holiday when it comes to being clutch.  8)

Holiday hasn't had the opportunity to be clutch.

He was on the Sixers.

He was on the sixers the year before also...

A first-round fodder team that snuck by because Derrick Rose got injured?

Real high-stakes playoff basketball.

Re: 2013 CB Draft : Draft Thread - 3rd round open for business
« Reply #1400 on: August 21, 2013, 09:31:55 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Also none of the other 3 are no where near Holiday when it comes to being clutch.  8)

Holiday hasn't had the opportunity to be clutch.

He was on the Sixers.

He was on the sixers the year before also...

A first-round fodder team that snuck by because Derrick Rose got injured?

Real high-stakes playoff basketball.

well, they did take the C's to 7 games

Re: 2013 CB Draft : Draft Thread - 3rd round open for business
« Reply #1401 on: August 21, 2013, 09:32:59 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Also none of the other 3 are no where near Holiday when it comes to being clutch.  8)

Not sure if serious...

Holiday was #6 in "CLUTCH" stats on 82 games only behind Irving, Bryant, Paul, Durant, and Harden.
Interesting that 2 of the top 5 "clutch" players according to "clutch stats" were on pretty awful teams.

Re: 2013 CB Draft : Draft Thread - 3rd round open for business
« Reply #1402 on: August 21, 2013, 09:33:50 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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Also none of the other 3 are no where near Holiday when it comes to being clutch.  8)

Holiday hasn't had the opportunity to be clutch.

He was on the Sixers.

He was on the sixers the year before also...

A first-round fodder team that snuck by because Derrick Rose got injured?

Real high-stakes playoff basketball.

It's still playoff basketball. If his team lost they still went home. And they took the Cs to 7.

Re: 2013 CB Draft : Draft Thread - 3rd round open for business
« Reply #1403 on: August 21, 2013, 09:34:42 PM »

Offline ronaldo943

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Also none of the other 3 are no where near Holiday when it comes to being clutch.  8)

Not sure if serious...

Holiday was #6 in "CLUTCH" stats on 82 games only behind Irving, Bryant, Paul, Durant, and Harden.
Interesting that 2 of the top 5 "clutch" players according to "clutch stats" were on pretty awful teams.

2 out of 6 and we all know that Irving is clutch. (At least in the regular season)

Re: 2013 CB Draft : Draft Thread - 3rd round open for business
« Reply #1404 on: August 21, 2013, 09:35:38 PM »

Offline ronaldo943

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Also none of the other 3 are no where near Holiday when it comes to being clutch.  8)

Holiday hasn't had the opportunity to be clutch.

He was on the Sixers.

He was on the sixers the year before also...

A first-round fodder team that snuck by because Derrick Rose got injured?

Real high-stakes playoff basketball.

Took C's to game 7...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9loWVYEaKkE

Re: 2013 CB Draft : Draft Thread - 3rd round open for business
« Reply #1405 on: August 21, 2013, 09:39:36 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

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It's still playoff basketball. If his team lost they still went home. And they took the Cs to 7.

Team A taking Team B to 7 does not mean that a player on Team A was clutch.

Re: 2013 CB Draft : Draft Thread - 3rd round open for business
« Reply #1406 on: August 21, 2013, 09:40:45 PM »

Offline rondoallaturca

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That goes both ways though since the Sixers had such a crappy core all eyes were on Holiday. I mean when you look at the fact that he led such a crappy supporting cast to 34 wins it's quite amazing.

Well I think we've shown how subjective the whole idea of "clutch" is. I'm definitely not going to argue Holiday isn't clutch, especially from what I've seen from him dating back to his UCLA days, but personally I would definitely take Conley and Lawson because they actually have an admirable track record. Ultimately, I think that's the biggest factor. I mean, despite converting at a higher clip during "clutch" scenarios, many people still think Lebron is inferior to Kobe when the game is on the line.

Conley has come through in the NBA playoffs. Lawson showed he could do it in the NCAA championship. I've already seen more game-winners from Lillard than I have Holiday. I recall some great plays from Holiday during their 1st round matchup with the Heat two years ago, but that's about it as far as his "clutch" plays. This isn't to put Holiday below the other three guards, but it's sort of strange to see you so confidently say that the other guards are "no where near Holiday" in terms of being "clutch".

Re: 2013 CB Draft : Draft Thread - 3rd round open for business
« Reply #1407 on: August 21, 2013, 09:41:46 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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It's still playoff basketball. If his team lost they still went home. And they took the Cs to 7.

Team A taking Team B to 7 does not mean that a player on Team A was clutch.

No, but his play being instrumental in that series going 7 does.

Re: 2013 CB Draft : Draft Thread - 3rd round open for business
« Reply #1408 on: August 21, 2013, 09:43:55 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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Oh, are we arguing about if Holiday is better than Mike Conley Jr?  Holiday is more talented but Conley Jr is more polished at this point and it's not like he's afraid of the moment.

My favorite part of Mike Conley Jr.? The dude can stroke it from Neptune.

Re: 2013 CB Draft : Draft Thread - 3rd round open for business
« Reply #1409 on: August 21, 2013, 09:44:28 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

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Agree with rondoallaturca. I'm not saying Holiday isn't clutch. I'm just saying that you can't make that argument without evidence. And there's far less evidence from him than there is from some of these other guys.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure none of these guys put up 35 and 10 in a playoff game on the road.

Besides Lawson of course.