celtics biggest weakness: no quality 3 pt sharpshooter

[Boris Badenov]

As much as i hate to say it, the team hasnt been the same with the loss of ray allen. Its a guy who can go off shooting threes and play solid defense. The shooting threat alone opens up the floor to confuse opponents defense and also give other guys on the team to operate.

As of now a rondo and ab combination is bad in terms of opening things up. And with rondo last year and with his injury less likely to run more in transition, the worry is magnified. Eventually i wouldnt mind brooks on the floor more with rondo bc at least he can create his own shot.

Anyone else feel this is going to become a problem again?

I agree with you that AB is a bad fit with Rondo, at least based on his shooting to this point in his career. A player in the style of Reddick seems like a much better fit to me.

AB on the other hand seems like he'd be great with a guy like Curry or Irving.

I dunno.   There's more to it than just having Rondo's backcourt partner be a big, 3PT shooting SG when it comes to what makes for an 'ideal' pair.

When Rondo & Bradley are on the floor together, our defense has been absolutely stunning.

In 701 minutes of floor time together over the last two seasons, Rondo and Bradley have posted a Defensive Rating of 94.6 points per 100 possessions.   

And note - it wasn't just because they were playing with KG.  KG was NOT on the floor for about a third of those minutes, during which the two posted a sub-90 DRtg!!

Offensively, sure, they haven't been an elite pairing.  But their ORtg of 101.6 is not bad.  And that's +7 for a Net rating.

I can live with that.

I think Bradley's offense really suffered by NOT having Rondo on the floor.   And he's just plain still young and inconsistent.  Over time, I'm pretty confident Bradley will become a more consistent offensive player.

I think the samples you're talking about are pretty small - maybe too small to draw any real conclusions. I don't disagree with what you're saying, I just think we don't really know for sure what was responsible for AB's troubles last season.

I'm certainly hopeful that Bradley can find a way to turn his offensive struggles around, whether it's because of his own development or Rondo's return. I love Bradley's style of play and tenacity.

[mmmmm]

The problem guy here might bradley. Say even if rondo is traded, for a chris paul like pg who can shoot.

Bradley cant create his own offense, penetrate well, mediocre passer, cant shoot threes. He can shoot the mid range pretty good but has to be spoonfed the ball. Before his shoulder injury when he was able to cut and finish under the basket it made a big difference for his offensive game and also help open things up for others. But last year he stopped doing this.

Even though he is a great defender, if he cant shoot the 2 and cut frequently at least, i dont think he will be a celtic after this year.  Brooks def has a chance to steal the starting sg position from ab.

When ainge drafted ab i wonder what was his plan for him. Wasnt it initially be the teams backup pg?

Cuts rarely work if there isn't penetration to create the openings. He cut less because when Rondo was out there was less open space for him to cut to.

Bradley's mid range shooting was decent last year, and his three point shooting was good playing with Rondo the last year. WIth his first full healthy offseason I expect Bradley to take leaps forward and only secure his starting spot but be the unquestioned third best player on the team behind Rondo and Green.

I would bet you Tommy points that Bradley won't lose his starting job to Brooks, I would even give you odds.

Fair enough. Maybe he didnt cut bc there was a lack of players that could penetrate. I could see him do alot more of it being out there with rondo, brooks or pressey.

I also want ab to be back to his old self. But why dont you feel brooks has a chance to steal the starting sg spot? Brooks defense is not as elite but he seems competent and everyone knows his offense can be deadly. (Some have already said he plays like a poor man kobe out there)

Who is this 'everyone' that 'knows [Brooks] offense can be deadly'?

He certainly hasn't been even a poor homeless man's Kobe so far in the NBA.

Brooks is a classic inefficient volume scorer who's game worked in the NCAA because at that level his superior athleticism made up for his poor shot selection.

But in the NBA, that only works if you have the absolute elite athleticism and body control of a Kobe or a Wade.

Brooks is not Kobe.

Brooks was a 25th pick (by the Nets.  Not Danny.) for a reason.  He's not that good.

I would not be surprised to see Brooks traded for cap relief.   If he stays, he's at best the 4th string SG behind AB, Lee & Bogans.

[CelticsFan9]

In order to build a solid team around Rondo, you need to have wing players that can shoot the three (Ray and Pierce).  Having bigs who are very good midrange shooters helps tremendously (KG and Bass).  This helps create driving lanes for Rondo.

I like that Danny has Sullinger and Olynyk as bigs on the team, as they can shoot.  Green and Bradley have showed (for short stretches) that the corner three is in their arsenal.  Now, the challenge is getting those two to consistently make threes so that team shave to respect it.

Another facet of the team that I like is Sullinger, Olynyk, Green, and even Rondo (!) have shown flashes of having post moves.  If Stevens can get the ball moving around the perimeter with at least one of those four posting up, I think it will open up the offense.  Teams will have to guard the post, leaving Bradley open to cut to the rim and shooters spacing the floor.

I expect the Celtics to run a lot off misses, too.  Rondo is a one-man fast break, and Bradley and Green have shown they are great athletes.  Olynyk runs the floor well for a big man, and Sully throws great outlet passes.  I think this Celtics team has the potential to generate a lot of fast break opportunities.

I think half-court offense is going to be a challenge.  Rondo is going to help out Stevens a lot because he can call plays on the floor and recognizes mismatches immediately.  This will relieve Stevens of having to tell the players which play to go with every single time Rondo brings the ball up; Rondo acts as a player-coach, in that regard.

I'm optimistic that Sullinger and Olynyk will have the ability to initiate offense in the high post.  This will help Rondo out, as he won't have to set up the offense every single time.

The problem I see with the Celtics in the half-court is the team lacks shot creators.  Rondo can only do so much on offense, and teams are almost certainly going to be leaving him open (He can hit that midrange though; I'd like to see him start hitting threes, too.).  Green can attack off the dribble, but his moves aren't that varied and he goes through stretches of passivity.  Stevens is going to have to have some plays that will get the guys moving.  Motion offense will benefit the team, in my opinion.

FInally, I love that the team has a lot of smart passers.  Rondo is a given, but Sullinger and Olynyk can pass, too (Like I said before, expect to see them directing traffic at the high post.).  Bradley needs to work on his passing, but I notice that even though he messes up passes a lot, he's always making the right pass (or extra pass, whatever you want to call it).  It's a good quality to have.  I think Green can pass, too, but he doesn't do it very often.  If he can work out passing out of drives, it would open up the offense even more.

I'm cautiously optimistic about the Celtics offense this year.

[LooseCannon]

I believe that Avery Bradley is better than MarShon Brooks at three-point shooting and catch-and-shoot jumpers.  Does anyone really disagree with that?

To get back to the need for three-point shooting, I think the Celtics need to see if Sullinger and Olynyk can make threes in the NBA.

[KGs Knee]

I believe that Avery Bradley is better than MarShon Brooks at three-point shooting and catch-and-shoot jumpers.  Does anyone really disagree with that?

To get back to the need for three-point shooting, I think the Celtics need to see if Sullinger and Olynyk can make threes in the NBA.

I'd wager Olynk should have no problem becoming a decent 3 pt shooter at the NBA level.  Sully might be able to, but based on his skill-set, I'm not sure I want him to.  I'd rather see Sully keep that big butt of his in the post.

[syfy9]

I would love to see a trade for Jimmer Fredette.

He's really down in the Kings depth chart right now , but he's a pure shooter. Just has numerous other deficiencies in his game. Overall, I'd be happy with him giving up 10-20 minutes of floor spacing.

Maybe Crawford + two 2nd rounders?

[CelticsFan9]

I would love to see a trade for Jimmer Fredette.

He's really down in the Kings depth chart right now , but he's a pure shooter. Just has numerous other deficiencies in his game. Overall, I'd be happy with him giving up 10-20 minutes of floor spacing.

Maybe Crawford + two 2nd rounders?

He could end up being a poor man's Eddie House.

I'd do that trade.  Maybe just one second, though.

[LB3533]

Key Point #1 - Jeff Green may not be able to get the same looks from the 3 point line this season, because he will be one of the primary offense creators on the team.

Key Point #2 - Rondo's confidence to convert and actually go for scoring chances will be the key to opening up the 3 point shot.

[TheTruthFot18]

Well who are we looking for? I havn't really seen any names thrown around.

Idea: Klay Thompson and Speights for AB and Bass?

Or something for Marcus thorton or randy foye?

All SG's who can hit the three and are not afraid to let them fly. Any of those teams could use a defensive SG like AB.

Why didn't we go after Mayo either? He had a great (for the money) year in Dallas and shot above 40% from 3.

IDk if the GS trade would be good enough for them but I'd be down with Thompson at SG.

Any other names within reason?

[Tr1boy]

The problem guy here might bradley. Say even if rondo is traded, for a chris paul like pg who can shoot.

Bradley cant create his own offense, penetrate well, mediocre passer, cant shoot threes. He can shoot the mid range pretty good but has to be spoonfed the ball. Before his shoulder injury when he was able to cut and finish under the basket it made a big difference for his offensive game and also help open things up for others. But last year he stopped doing this.

Even though he is a great defender, if he cant shoot the 2 and cut frequently at least, i dont think he will be a celtic after this year.  Brooks def has a chance to steal the starting sg position from ab.

When ainge drafted ab i wonder what was his plan for him. Wasnt it initially be the teams backup pg?

Cuts rarely work if there isn't penetration to create the openings. He cut less because when Rondo was out there was less open space for him to cut to.

Bradley's mid range shooting was decent last year, and his three point shooting was good playing with Rondo the last year. WIth his first full healthy offseason I expect Bradley to take leaps forward and only secure his starting spot but be the unquestioned third best player on the team behind Rondo and Green.

I would bet you Tommy points that Bradley won't lose his starting job to Brooks, I would even give you odds.

Fair enough. Maybe he didnt cut bc there was a lack of players that could penetrate. I could see him do alot more of it being out there with rondo, brooks or pressey.

I also want ab to be back to his old self. But why dont you feel brooks has a chance to steal the starting sg spot? Brooks defense is not as elite but he seems competent and everyone knows his offense can be deadly. (Some have already said he plays like a poor man kobe out there)

Who is this 'everyone' that 'knows [Brooks] offense can be deadly'?

He certainly hasn't been even a poor homeless man's Kobe so far in the NBA.

Brooks is a classic inefficient volume scorer who's game worked in the NCAA because at that level his superior athleticism made up for his poor shot selection.

But in the NBA, that only works if you have the absolute elite athleticism and body control of a Kobe or a Wade.

Brooks is not Kobe.

Brooks was a 25th pick (by the Nets.  Not Danny.) for a reason.  He's not that good.

I would not be surprised to see Brooks traded for cap relief.   If he stays, he's at best the 4th string SG behind AB, Lee & Bogans.

Why dont you look at his stats in year one. For a vol shooter his fg per was decent. He also rebounded, passed the ball and had decent turnover numbers. Several games last year and year 1 when he got a chance to play he scored  25 or more pts.

Dont use the 25th pick to think this guy cant play nba ball. He also had a 52 pts and 42 pts game in college. Volume shooter or not that is quite impressive.

[Galeto]

Well who are we looking for? I havn't really seen any names thrown around.

Idea: Klay Thompson and Speights for AB and Bass?

Or something for Marcus thorton or randy foye?

All SG's who can hit the three and are not afraid to let them fly. Any of those teams could use a defensive SG like AB.

Why didn't we go after Mayo either? He had a great (for the money) year in Dallas and shot above 40% from 3.

IDk if the GS trade would be good enough for them but I'd be down with Thompson at SG.

Any other names within reason?

Golden State just signed Iguodala who is a better defender than Bradley because he has the size and athleticism to guard 1-3s.  Not only do they not need Bradley, but the shooting with him and Iguodala would be too suspect.  I'm sure GS would do Bradley for someone like Draymond Green but not for someone who is seen as a core piece like Klay.

[Tr1boy]

Klay thompson would def cure our lack of 3 pt shooting ailment.

He would prob take rondo to grab. And we all know that trade makes no sense for gsw.

What other sg in the nba is a deadly 3pt shooter and can play decent defense etc?

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Brandon Rush can solve that problem.

[syfy9]

I would love to see a trade for Jimmer Fredette.

He's really down in the Kings depth chart right now , but he's a pure shooter. Just has numerous other deficiencies in his game. Overall, I'd be happy with him giving up 10-20 minutes of floor spacing.

Maybe Crawford + two 2nd rounders?

He could end up being a poor man's Eddie House.

I'd do that trade.  Maybe just one second, though.

I actually think he's capable of being better than a poor man's Eddie House right now, given the opportunity.

He's still pretty young. It's all circumstantial, but I could see him putting up Jason Terry numbers.

[CelticsFan9]

I would love to see a trade for Jimmer Fredette.

He's really down in the Kings depth chart right now , but he's a pure shooter. Just has numerous other deficiencies in his game. Overall, I'd be happy with him giving up 10-20 minutes of floor spacing.

Maybe Crawford + two 2nd rounders?

He could end up being a poor man's Eddie House.

I'd do that trade.  Maybe just one second, though.

I actually think he's capable of being better than a poor man's Eddie House right now, given the opportunity.

He's still pretty young. It's all circumstantial, but I could see him putting up Jason Terry numbers.

He's certainly a better finisher than House is, but the reason I say a poor man's is because while he jacks up threes like House did, he doesn't compete on defense like House did.

I see them being similar ball handlers, too.