celtics biggest weakness: no quality 3 pt sharpshooter

[Tr1boy]

The problem guy here might bradley. Say even if rondo is traded, for a chris paul like pg who can shoot.

Bradley cant create his own offense, penetrate well, mediocre passer, cant shoot threes. He can shoot the mid range pretty good but has to be spoonfed the ball. Before his shoulder injury when he was able to cut and finish under the basket it made a big difference for his offensive game and also help open things up for others. But last year he stopped doing this.

Even though he is a great defender, if he cant shoot the 2 and cut frequently at least, i dont think he will be a celtic after this year.  Brooks def has a chance to steal the starting sg position from ab.

When ainge drafted ab i wonder what was his plan for him. Wasnt it initially be the teams backup pg?

Cuts rarely work if there isn't penetration to create the openings. He cut less because when Rondo was out there was less open space for him to cut to.

Bradley's mid range shooting was decent last year, and his three point shooting was good playing with Rondo the last year. WIth his first full healthy offseason I expect Bradley to take leaps forward and only secure his starting spot but be the unquestioned third best player on the team behind Rondo and Green.

I would bet you Tommy points that Bradley won't lose his starting job to Brooks, I would even give you odds.

Fair enough. Maybe he didnt cut bc there was a lack of players that could penetrate. I could see him do alot more of it being out there with rondo, brooks or pressey.

I also want ab to be back to his old self. But why dont you feel brooks has a chance to steal the starting sg spot? Brooks defense is not as elite but he seems competent and everyone knows his offense can be deadly. (Some have already said he plays like a poor man kobe out there)

[Evantime34]

AB is a bad fit with Rondo.

Based on what?

I can't speak for anyone else but I base it on the idea that success in the modern NBA game is associated with having 2-3 very good 3 point shooters on the court most of the time.

The top 4 teams in 3 pt shooting last year were GSW, MIA, OKC and SAS.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/offense-per-game/sort/threePointFieldGoalPct

If we have Rondo and Bradley out there, we have two poor 3 pt shooters at 2 out of the 3 wing positions.

And right now those guys are not just mediocre, both are close to being the worst in the league at their positions in terms of 3 pt shooting.

Who knows, maybe they can do other things that would allow the team to win in other ways. But it would certainly be bucking the trend across the league.

Bradley was actually pretty good at corner 3's when he played with Rondo two years ago. I think the strategy is to have our bigs shoot some 3's to space the floor, I think Olynyk and Sullinger will both be able to knock down some floor spacing jumpers.

If you think Bradley will improve over last year, that's cool. I hope he does too. But if he continues to shoot like he did last year then I think we're in trouble.

As far as Olynyk and Sullinger go, I think it's too early to tell - and, I'd be surprised if those guys play huge minutes, with Sully coming back from his injury and KO being a rook.

You are 100% correct that if his shooting doesn't improve we are in trouble. I would go step further and say if his general offensive play doesn't improve we are in trouble.

After trading Pierce and KG I think they are prepared to play young guys like KO and Sully big minutes to develop them, even if it is at the expense of wins. I think Sully won't play a ton to start but by the midway point he will be playing 25-30 minutes a game, I expect KO to play that many minutes from game 1.

[Tr1boy]

Sully should b back 100 percent and playing up to stds in no time. The guy is young, should recover fast and got the surgery at the right time b4 it got any worse. Its either he healed or no matter how many surgeries he wont b able to play 100 percent again.

With olynyk he was considered as nba ready as any 2013 dfafted player. He still needs experince and build his body a bit more but its not like he only played one year in college or is jjj/noel physically not ready.

I see both getting alot of time next year

[D.o.s.]

Sully should b back 100 percent and playing up to stds in no time. The guy is young, should recover fast and got the surgery at the right time b4 it got any worse. Its either he healed or no matter how many surgeries he wont b able to play 100 percent again.

With olynyk he was considered as nba ready as any 2013 dfafted player. He still needs experince and build his body a bit more but its not like he only played one year in college or is jjj/noel physically not ready.

I see both getting alot of time next year

Playing up to STDS?

There's a tasteless Magic Johnson double entendre in there somewhere...

[PhoSita]

It would be amazing if the Celtics get to double digits wins in the upcoming 2013 - 2014 season. Current prediction is 8 wins for the season, with a few miracles, the Celtics can get to 10 wins this year but it is going to take a herculean effort.

Your joking right? 

Are you really a celtics fan?

I agree that the 8-10 wins prediction is silly, but I don't think that calling out other people's fandom is acceptable.  It's irritating, and it's against the rules.

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

There's an elephant in the room here, Jeff Green. I reckon he has better 3 pt shooting than we've gotten to see in far in his career. Then there is also Courtney Led who merely had a bad last season, that should knock down the 3 at a good rate.

[More Banners]

There's an elephant in the room here, Jeff Green. I reckon he has better 3 pt shooting than we've gotten to see in far in his career. Then there is also Courtney Led who merely had a bad last season, that should knock down the 3 at a good rate.

Yeah, I think we really have to count on stretching the floor with corner 3's from Lee, Green, Bradley, Bogans, and anyone else that can make them (KO?).

SG's that can shoot...much easier with one.

[KGs Knee]

Courtney Lee should be, but for whatever reason, he has had trouble living up to his reputation from early in his career.

He has the stroke, and the range, he just seems to lack confidence to take the shots.  Also, he has a terrible habit of stepping in for long two point shots.

[TheTruthFot18]

I agree this is a bigger hole in the roster than the center(big man) position.

Another poster made a good point of having Humphries, Wallace, and Sully. Not to mention Bass, KO, Brazilian guy, and Rondo (great for a pg). Also why ship Humphries out? He's expiring and  if he does good we can wait until teh trade deadline where he'll have more value. He is also the only member on the roster who can and has averaged double digit rebounds. Wallace is the obvious (harder) one to get rid of.

We do need a Ray Allen player (not just Lee and Brooks) to spread the floor otherwise defenses will just sit in the paint and laugh.

[moiso]

To me with the current roster the biggest problem is rim protection.  Last year our biggest problem was shot creation IMO

Again someone help answer how miami magically the only team that can play without a rim protector.

It sounds like some of you guys would of been much happier with drafting dieng instead

Miami went on a huge win streak after adding the rim protector Chris Andersen.  And I think Hibbert is a pretty good rim protector also.

[mmmmm]

we're rebuilding, we have a ton of weaknesses...

3 PT, Center position, rebounding, post play, etc, etc...basically some of the same problems from last year and before that, but it just got a lot worse

Last time i checked humphries, sullinger, wallace and rondo are pretty darn good rebounders. In addition you can get decent help from bass, olynyk.

In addition in regards to post play we need to give sully more of a chance this year and we all saw what olynyk can do.

To me the center position issue is not as bad as lack of three pt shooting

'Totally agree with that last statement.

Our interior defense is certainly much weaker without KG, but our interior offense actually should be very good and our rebounding should be fine.   There are issues here, but not as concerning as our 3PT shooting - which was a big weakness last year.

It is reasonable to hope that Bradley and Lee will 'regress' to more consistent, more efficient 3PT shooting than last year (Lee was actually very good after his horrible start - he just didn't take many shots).   And Green is a solid 3PT shooter.   And Olynyk may have the 3 in his repertoire. 

But outside of those guys?   Not much 3PT shooting to be found. 

I guess Bogans actually is a fairly consistent 35% 3PT shooter, but will likely get 3rd string minutes.

[moiso]

There's an elephant in the room here, Jeff Green. I reckon he has better 3 pt shooting than we've gotten to see in far in his career. Then there is also Courtney Led who merely had a bad last season, that should knock down the 3 at a good rate.

I expect Lee to be much better but Green tied a career high in 3point percentage last year.

[mmmmm]

As much as i hate to say it, the team hasnt been the same with the loss of ray allen. Its a guy who can go off shooting threes and play solid defense. The shooting threat alone opens up the floor to confuse opponents defense and also give other guys on the team to operate.

As of now a rondo and ab combination is bad in terms of opening things up. And with rondo last year and with his injury less likely to run more in transition, the worry is magnified. Eventually i wouldnt mind brooks on the floor more with rondo bc at least he can create his own shot.

Anyone else feel this is going to become a problem again?

I agree with you that AB is a bad fit with Rondo, at least based on his shooting to this point in his career. A player in the style of Reddick seems like a much better fit to me.

AB on the other hand seems like he'd be great with a guy like Curry or Irving.

I dunno.   There's more to it than just having Rondo's backcourt partner be a big, 3PT shooting SG when it comes to what makes for an 'ideal' pair.

When Rondo & Bradley are on the floor together, our defense has been absolutely stunning.

In 701 minutes of floor time together over the last two seasons, Rondo and Bradley have posted a Defensive Rating of 94.6 points per 100 possessions.   

And note - it wasn't just because they were playing with KG.  KG was NOT on the floor for about a third of those minutes, during which the two posted a sub-90 DRtg!!

Offensively, sure, they haven't been an elite pairing.  But their ORtg of 101.6 is not bad.  And that's +7 for a Net rating.

I can live with that.

I think Bradley's offense really suffered by NOT having Rondo on the floor.   And he's just plain still young and inconsistent.  Over time, I'm pretty confident Bradley will become a more consistent offensive player.

[mmmmm]

To me with the current roster the biggest problem is rim protection.  Last year our biggest problem was shot creation IMO

Again someone help answer how miami magically the only team that can play without a rim protector.

It sounds like some of you guys would of been much happier with drafting dieng instead

They are fine without a rim protector because Lebron is the best defender in the league, can cut off penetration, step up for the weak side block and get in the passing lanes.  Also because the Heat's team defense consistently played like they were attached with a string.

I am a huge Olynyk fan and you can verify that by looking at who I wanted us to draft before the draft actually happened. Olynyk is miles better than Dieng, but that doesn't mean we don't need a rim protector to complement him.

Evan as good as lebron is on defense he is not elite to the pt he can save his other players consistently. Especially save his pf and center or 2nd pf.

Like you said its about excellent team defense.

Celts are also capable of this bc guys like sully and oly have high iq and endless motors. I also trust stevens will figure out a way to get the team to work as a unit

Imo having a guy who can block 5 shots a game is nice but not a do or die thing. There are ways around it. Currently there is no way around not having a good 3 pt shooter on the team

LeBron is absolutely elite on defense, but I agree with you that he can't single handedly elevate a defense from ok to elite.

Rim protection isn't just about blocking 5 shots in a game but detering high percentage paint shots from being taken. Lebron actually deters a lot of shots with his athleticism.

Without a shot blocker, we have 0 room for error on every defensive possession. We can absolutely be successful without one, but having one would increase our ability to consistently defend at a high level.

To me the problem wasn't three point shooters last year but the fact that we couldn't penetrate very well to create wide open shots for those shooters.

But ... while I agree we don't have a lot of shot-blocking and in general the interior defense will be at best 'average' --- the fact is, this team on paper right now should be elite at perimeter defense - which as you say, will help out the interior bigs.

Rondo & Bradley are both all-defensive team selections and for good reason.   And especially together -- our defensive ratings with both on the floor have been just sick good the last two years.   There easily one of, if not the best defensive 1-2 in the NBA.

And Jeff Green was consistently rated by Synergy as an elite defender - especially at his position.   So basically, three of our starting five should constitute an elite perimeter defensive threesome.

And backing those three guys up will be players like Lee, Wallace & Bogans -- all of who are above average defenders.

So while I agree with a lot of the concerns about our defense under the post, I have a lot of optimism regarding our perimeter defense and thus I think the overall defense will still be above average.

[mmmmm]

The problem guy here might bradley. Say even if rondo is traded, for a chris paul like pg who can shoot.

Bradley cant create his own offense, penetrate well, mediocre passer, cant shoot threes. He can shoot the mid range pretty good but has to be spoonfed the ball. Before his shoulder injury when he was able to cut and finish under the basket it made a big difference for his offensive game and also help open things up for others. But last year he stopped doing this.

Even though he is a great defender, if he cant shoot the 2 and cut frequently at least, i dont think he will be a celtic after this year.  Brooks def has a chance to steal the starting sg position from ab.

When ainge drafted ab i wonder what was his plan for him. Wasnt it initially be the teams backup pg?

Cuts rarely work if there isn't penetration to create the openings. He cut less because when Rondo was out there was less open space for him to cut to.

Bradley's mid range shooting was decent last year, and his three point shooting was good playing with Rondo the last year. WIth his first full healthy offseason I expect Bradley to take leaps forward and only secure his starting spot but be the unquestioned third best player on the team behind Rondo and Green.

I would bet you Tommy points that Bradley won't lose his starting job to Brooks, I would even give you odds.

Bradley's 3PT shooting also was notably improved as he got farther along.  He shot under 33% in January, under 30% in February ... but 34.4% & 34.6% in Mar & April, respectively.

It's not unreasonable to think that he was still struggling to recover his timing and his shot in those first 2 months.

Shooting just under 35% isn't great, but it isn't bad either - it's average.

Avery Bradley is not likely to be the 40% 3PT shooter he showed us in 2012.   But he's also not likely to be the 33% shooter he was in 2013.

More likely, he's going to regress to where the bulk of his H.S., college, D-League & NBA numbers all put him when taken together.

Long term, he's very likely to be around a 37% 3PT shooter.  Which will be just fine.