Question for Tanking Advocates Who Think Rondo Is an Impediment

[Yogi]

It's really funny.  Tanking sounds great now to a lot of people because they see Wiggins as some kind of savior. Losing game after game is horrible.  And losing the lottery after that is even worse.  You think people would remember from 2007, but I guess a championship erases all those memories. 

The chance that anyone in next years draft would be as good as Rondo is highly unlikely.

You might wanna think about that statement. Go make a poll with that question on an NBA general forum & seenwhat peo ppl e think.  Rondo off ACL surgery vs one of the most loaded drafts in NBA history. The non green glasses odds of there NOT being a better player are about 1 out of 15 at the most. Less than 10%.

1.  Rondo will be in the Hall-of-Fame.
2.  You misunderstood the statement.  The chances that anyONE in this draft will be better than Rondo is low.  But there are 60 people drafted which increases the odds. 
3.  I like Wiggins, but Shabazz Mohammed was considered the next Lebron James last year.  Let's hold our horses.
4.  Tanking doesn't ensure we will have the worst record.  Having the worst record doesn't ensure we will get the number one pick.  Getting number one pick doesn't ensure we will get the best player. 

Look at Greg Oden.  We tanked, got the worst record, got the number 5th pick.  The team that got the number one pick got nothing out of it.  Tanking is a dangerous and unpleasant game. 

[crimson_stallion]

It's really funny.  Tanking sounds great now to a lot of people because they see Wiggins as some kind of savior. Losing game after game is horrible.  And losing the lottery after that is even worse.  You think people would remember from 2007, but I guess a championship erases all those memories. 

The chance that anyone in next years draft would be as good as Rondo is highly unlikely.

You might wanna think about that statement. Go poll with that question on an NBA general forum & seenwhat peo ppl e think.  Rondo off ACL surgery vs one of the most loaded drafts in NBA history. The non green glasses odds of there NOT being a better player are about 1 out of 15 at the most. Less than 10%.

1.  Rondo will be in the Hall-of-Fame.
2.  You misunderstood the statement.  The chances that anyONE in this draft will be better than Rondo is low.  But there are 60 people drafted which increases the odds. 
3.  I like Wiggins, but Shabazz Mohammed was considered the next Lebron James last year.  Let's hold our horses.
4.  Tanking doesn't ensure we will have the worst record.  Having the worst record doesn't ensure we will get the number one pick.  Getting number one pick doesn't ensure we will get the best player. 

Look at Greg Oden.  We tanked, got the worst record, got the number 5th pick.  The team that got the number one pick got nothing out of it.  Tanking is a dangerous and unpleasant game.

Thank you!! Why does nobody else get this???

Question for the tankers...

Take a look at all the team's from the past 10 years who got top-3 draft picks during that time.  How many of those teams have won titles?  I can think of one - Miami (Wade).

How many of those teams have made the finals?  I can think of two - Miami and OKC.

For all of the remaining teams on that liat, where are they now?

Even with consecutive years of incredible draft success (Green, Durant, Westbrook, Harden,  Ibaka) OKC still have no championships and only one finals appearance.  Cleveland were hailed as the favorite during LeBron entire time there, but no ring.  Instead who has won? Spurs, Heat, Mavericks, Lakers, Celtics.  All either old teams or teams who won due to major trades, adding new pieces to existing stars.

You need an absolute miracle to become a legit contender via the draft alone, and an even bigger miracle to win in all that way).  History has proven though that adding additional stars to an already existing star (Gasol to Kobe, Ray and KG to Pierce, Chandler to Dirk and Jet, LeBron and Bosh to Wade) is a very good approach to building a championship content.

We already have that first star in Rondo.  Instead of trying to ditch him for unproven rookies who we HOPE may one day become stars, how about we just bring in some PROVEN stars ?

[Celtics4ever]

  Tanking is a dangerous and unpleasant game.

How else do you propose we get better?   Because tanking got us assets that allowed us to get players like Larry Bird in 78 and directly got us players that we traded for the Big Three.  There is no big three without Jeff Green and Randy Foye and the young assets traded.

What is the plan in the fantasy land you live in?  Is the draft fairy going to help us?   Lucky going to whisk us in free agents to a Cold Weather city?  Your named after a Hanna Barberra Character right?  Is Gazoo from the Flintstones going to make Olynyk into the next Larry?

Just playing it out leads to mediocrity.   Look at teams that do not tank they are mired in mediocrity each year.   I know the draft is risky but Ainge has a history or getting assets in the draft and trading them and not really taking that risk.  Green and Foye did not suit up for us and were trade off.   I realize Green is here now.   But what risk is there to getting a high pick and moving it for a proven asset?


Still tanking but it's how Ainge mitigated the risk on tanking in 07-08.   

[Casperian]

Too often these days people who rage against the "tank lovers" or whatever conflate any argument in favor of building through the draft and prioritizing something other than winning this season with a "tank for a top 3 pick at all costs" mentality.

These days? Are you new around here?

Conflating arguments or picking out extremes and presenting them as consensus under some catchy label is exactly how many people on here like to spend their free time.

Some god-fearing folks always need witches to demonize.

Fortunately, our FO is pretty darn smart and taking care of business.

[BballTim]

It's really funny.  Tanking sounds great now to a lot of people because they see Wiggins as some kind of savior. Losing game after game is horrible.  And losing the lottery after that is even worse.  You think people would remember from 2007, but I guess a championship erases all those memories. 

The chance that anyone in next years draft would be as good as Rondo is highly unlikely.

You might wanna think about that statement. Go make a poll with that question on an NBA general forum & seenwhat peo ppl e think.  Rondo off ACL surgery vs one of the most loaded drafts in NBA history. The non green glasses odds of there NOT being a better player are about 1 out of 15 at the most. Less than 10%.

  What value is there in polling a bunch of yahoos? If you've been on this blog long enough you'll realize that there's little to no relationship between most people agreeing on something and whether it's correct. Spend less time on most other message boards referenced here and you should come to the same conclusion.

[Greenback]

Rondo won't be able to do squat without the Big 3. 

Playing him full time will help us tank.

We will finally see how bad he is.

The Emperor has no clothes.

[SHAQATTACK]

would have rather had Pierce and KG stick around one more year, even knowing a banner is a very long shot, just to watch my favorite two players.

but.......now that DA decided to rebuild or trade them off  ,  I 'm ready to do what is necessary to get top talent back on  the court.

If that means being the worst team to get a chance at Wiggins , so be it.   A chance is better than No Chance to get the next great player.  Boston just doesn't have the attraction to bring in James or Howard .....maybe one day .......so rather dwell in the basement of 7 or 8 seeds forever ...... go for what you can .

I'm for playing the odds of drafting a great player or three .    I see no other way of getting championship caliber players on the Celtics ....

I  do believe we should keep Rondo ,  and he'll be asked to sit near the end of the season , if it comes down to a couple wins determining whether we get a better pick or not.

ya do what s necessary , and never admit it to get better.

[Celtics18]

I'm definitely not a tanking advocate, and I do think Rondo's going to present an impediment to the goal of losing.

[ChainSmokingLikeDino]

We will finally see how bad he is.

The Emperor has no clothes.

 

[BballTim]

Rondo won't be able to do squat without the Big 3. 

Playing him full time will help us tank.

We will finally see how bad he is.

The Emperor has no clothes.

  You might see how bad the team is but if Rondo's healthy he'll play well. We've already seen the equivalent  of what you're looking for, in the first half of the strike-shortened season when PP and KG were playing like garbage and JO was the starting center. Rondo was "bad" enough to make the all-star team that year and attracted a fair amount of votes for the all-nba team. Sorry to say it, but the last 7 years weren't an illusion.

  Early prediction: most of the people who fall over themselves in a rush to to defend the lack of success that other players have by pointing out the weak rosters around them will smugly claim that any issues the post KG/PP Celts have are proof that Rondo can't lead a team anywhere.

[Celtics18]

Rondo won't be able to do squat without the Big 3. 

Playing him full time will help us tank.

We will finally see how bad he is.

The Emperor has no clothes.

  You might see how bad the team is but if Rondo's healthy he'll play well. We've already seen the equivalent  of what you're looking for, in the first half of the strike-shortened season when PP and KG were playing like garbage and JO was the starting center. Rondo was "bad" enough to make the all-star team that year and attracted a fair amount of votes for the all-nba team. Sorry to say it, but the last 7 years weren't an illusion.

  Early prediction: most of the people who fall over themselves in a rush to to defend the lack of success that other players have by pointing out the weak rosters around them will smugly claim that any issues the post KG/PP Celts have are proof that Rondo can't lead a team anywhere.

Rondo's going to need to be an an all-star and lead the team to a record hovering around .500 for many to be satisfied.  I happen to think he can do it.

Of course, at that point there will be fans who say; "wow!! I didn't know Jeff Green, Jared Sullinger, and Avery Bradley were that good.  They are carrying Rondo.  He would never be able to do what he does if he wasn't surrounded by NBA players who can make open shots."

[Yogi]

  Tanking is a dangerous and unpleasant game.

How else do you propose we get better?   

Very simple, if a little boring.  Draft, Develop, Deal.

1.  Draft:  Danny has drafted Rondo, Bradley, Sullinger, Olynyk, Melo, Iverson.

2.  Develop:  Rondo is one of the best players in the league and a recruiter.  He is the piece you build around.  Bradley is already an all NBA defender and an elite athlete at just 22.  As he develops an offensive game he will become a star in the league.  Sullinger is an efficient scorer and a monster rebounder already in his freshman year.  Sky is the limit for this kid as his usage increases.  Olynyk is a promising rookie.  Melo and Iverson at the very least are young 7fts.  They aren't that common in the league so they will always have value. 

3. Deal:  Danny has the luxury of several first round picks in addition to the young talent.  He can wait until the right deal comes up to cash in his assets, or continue to add pieces through the draft. 

That is how smart franchises are run.  When we get cap space next year, the right free agent might choose to join Rondo and the talented young Celtics like Dwight Howard did.  Or an opportunity to trade for a transcendental player might come up.  Tanking is for the desperate panicking GMs who are not good at their jobs.  It's not something for Danny Ainge.   

[Moranis]

why on earth would Boston amnesty their best player and their best asset?  And even if Rondo had a no trade clause, why on earth would he want to ride out this horrible roster and not go some place better?  I mean it is one thing to veto a trade to Toronto, but NY, Chicago, Houston, etc., I just can't see it.

Totally ridiculous thread.

[scaryjerry]

This would be one of  the worst moves in the history of basketball, my god.

[PhoSita]

Too often these days people who rage against the "tank lovers" or whatever conflate any argument in favor of building through the draft and prioritizing something other than winning this season with a "tank for a top 3 pick at all costs" mentality.

These days? Are you new around here?

Conflating arguments or picking out extremes and presenting them as consensus under some catchy label is exactly how many people on here like to spend their free time.

Some god-fearing folks always need witches to demonize.

Fortunately, our FO is pretty darn smart and taking care of business.

I know it's kind of the MO around here, but I think it's become far more noticeable this summer because instead of arguing about whether or not Rondo is the best player on the team, or if we can contend with Pierce and Garnett, we're arguing about what direction the franchise should take for the next 5+ years.  The stakes are higher and the positions more directly opposed.