Author Topic: Building around Rajon Rondo. Who fits?  (Read 6599 times)

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Re: Building around Rajon Rondo. Who fits?
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2013, 06:32:51 PM »

Offline boscel33

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28 year old Garnett, Ray and Pierce.  :(

They ain't walking through that door.   ;D
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Re: Building around Rajon Rondo. Who fits?
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2013, 07:24:46 PM »

Offline traderondo

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When I came up with the name TradeRondo there were two main things that played into it.  At the time he was very overrated and had incredible value.  The other was built around this topic, that Rondo needs three GREAT shooters for their position around him. 

That being said I think Olynyk is a very good outside shooter for a 5.  Sullinger is as well for a 4/5.  Jeff Green is a good shooter but not great.  I agree with the statement that Bradley is more of a sixth man and that an upgrade at shooting guard would be ideal.  If we have 4 very good shooters instead of 3 all star shooters and banger in a center, we may have something.

If I were Ainge and rebuilding around Ainge, I would focus on getting an upgrade at shooting guard for a Reddick/Ray Allen  type of 3 pt shooter, best player he can manage with draft picks and anyone not already mentioned.   I think the same type of outside shooters that compliment Rondo will also help Jeff Green get open space to go one on one against inferior defenders the way Ray and KG did for PP.

Re: Building around Rajon Rondo. Who fits?
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2013, 07:46:12 PM »

Offline TeamGreen.dm

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Rajon Rondo
Steph Curry
Paul George
Blake Griffin
LaMarcus Aldridge


Make it happen Danny!

As much as i know this lineup is PURE FANTASY but i truly do believe that Lamarcus Aldridge would be the perfect fit for Rondo and in Boston. Especially after watching the Cs run 3 seven footers in a lineup(not sure if thats early signs of analytics or just giving minutes in Summer League)

Also we NEED too surround RR with 3pt shooters. Hopefully AB can step up and i do trusy Lees range. But how about snagging a Klay Thompson!!?!! I doubt him AND Harrison Barnes can both stay on that team together, especially with their new additions
"I am not going to back down from any challenge. Like I said, you are going to have to prove to me. I am a fighter; I will keep fighting and will never give up." Marcus Smart

Re: Building around Rajon Rondo. Who fits?
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2013, 07:46:42 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I think Oly and Sully fit, maybe Green if you keep Rondo though you need a Shooter at SG and not a defensive specialist.

Quote
If I were Ainge and rebuilding around Ainge, I would focus on getting an upgrade at shooting guard for a Reddick/Ray Allen  type of 3 pt shooter, best player he can manage with draft picks and anyone not already mentioned.   I think the same type of outside shooters that compliment Rondo will also help Jeff Green get open space to go one on one against inferior defenders the way Ray and KG did for PP.

I think Danny is a little old to build around, what he is he 50?

Re: Building around Rajon Rondo. Who fits?
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2013, 07:59:13 PM »

Offline TripleOT

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Rondo's a premiere set up man. Throw any four basketball players out there with him, and Rondo will figure out a way to get his team's offense going.

I'm looking forward to seeing Rondo on a scrub team for a while.  Will he take matters into his own hands and play iso or pick/roll ball a lot of the time, and either take layups or drive and kick to open shooters? 

One thing I really want to see out of RR is him taking a true leadership role and trying to put the pouting, ref-bumping, etc aside.   Pierce was able to shed his petulant image.  Let's hope Rondo can do the same. 

Re: Building around Rajon Rondo. Who fits?
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2013, 01:23:02 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Bradley, Green, and Olynyk are three guys that I'd really like to keep long term in a rebuild around Rondo.

DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Building around Rajon Rondo. Who fits?
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2013, 01:42:20 AM »

Offline LatterDayCelticsfan

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From my obdervations on this side of the world, Bradley style defender fits very well with him on D, a dead eye 3 point shooter that get open quickly would likely fit and to round it out at least one big who can dominate inside
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Re: Building around Rajon Rondo. Who fits?
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2013, 01:53:58 AM »

Offline syfy9

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Rajon Rondo
Steph Curry
Paul George
Blake Griffin
LaMarcus Aldridge


Make it happen Danny!

As much as i know this lineup is PURE FANTASY but i truly do believe that Lamarcus Aldridge would be the perfect fit for Rondo and in Boston. Especially after watching the Cs run 3 seven footers in a lineup(not sure if thats early signs of analytics or just giving minutes in Summer League)

Also we NEED too surround RR with 3pt shooters. Hopefully AB can step up and i do trusy Lees range. But how about snagging a Klay Thompson!!?!! I doubt him AND Harrison Barnes can both stay on that team together, especially with their new additions

Yeah, I think so too. Him or Blake, if he develops a decent mid-range jumper.

The ability to excel both in pick n pops and pick n rolls are characteristics Rondo would enjoy. That's the ultimate dynamic, and few bigs are capable of doing both at an elite level. Rondo has never had a player like this - KG was amazing at popping out, but just wasn't the finisher Rondo would've enjoyed.

Remember in 2010 when we had the KG and Shaq dynamic? Back then, Rondo had both elite pick n pop and pick n roll players. That was arguably the best roster we've had in the Big 3 Era - when healthy.
I like Marcus Smart

Re: Building around Rajon Rondo. Who fits?
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2013, 02:12:55 AM »

Offline More Banners

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Bradley, Green, and Olynyk are three guys that I'd really like to keep long term in a rebuild around Rondo.

I'm higher on Sully as an all-around player than I am Bradley, but I'd try to keep Bradley as 3rd guard if I think the rest is coming together (which it seems to be).

But yeah, I'm seeing a nice future starting 5 coming together at the present, if we could live with Bradley at starting SG.

Would Brooks fit better (or similar type player) than Bradley as a starter?

Re: Building around Rajon Rondo. Who fits?
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2013, 02:33:01 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Would Brooks fit better (or similar type player) than Bradley as a starter?

I think a no-defense chucker who isn't a good three-point shooter probably doesn't fit the kind of team the Celtics are trying to build.  Bradley has potential as a catch-and-shoot guy and that's the kind of SG I think they want.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Building around Rajon Rondo. Who fits?
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2013, 02:42:58 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Bradley, Green, and Olynyk are three guys that I'd really like to keep long term in a rebuild around Rondo.

Often, I just agree with what he says.

Edit: Add Sully. Doubt he will have a healthy career, but think he'd add a lot over the next few years.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 02:54:01 AM by tarheelsxxiii »
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Re: Building around Rajon Rondo. Who fits?
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2013, 03:04:02 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I'm not an expert so don't take my word as the gospel.  I'm just giving you my interpretation of what others have said over the years. 

Rondo's biggest weakness has been that he's somewhat of a liability on offense if he doesn't have the ball.  He's a below average shooter.  Prior to his injury he seemed to be improving, but defenders don't respect his shot... they often slack off him entirely.  But back before his injury, Rondo was really good at penetrating with his quickness/athleticism and finishing in the lane.   So it seemed to me that there had been a push to surround Rondo with shooters.  You can't pack the lane with low post players, because it prevents Rondo from penetrating.  If there are low post players in the lane, that mean's there are post defenders in the lane... and thus it's difficult for Rondo to drive without getting swatted. 

So the idea had been to get big men who could shoot mid-range shots.  That's KG's game.  KG wasn't a post player.  He knocked down mid-range shots.  Having a center who pulled defenders out of the paint was great for Rondo.   Meanwhile, we invested a ton of time in teaching Glen Davis how to knock down mid-range shots for that very reason... and when Davis proved to be inconsistent, we traded for Brandon Bass.  The one thing Brandon Bass does well is knock down mid-range shots.  We also obviously benefited from having arguably the most dangerous shooter in the world out there with Rondo... Ray Allen.  Having Ray spread the floor was great for Rondo.   Paul Pierce was a "jack of all trades" on offense and commanded attention at all times.

Really then, if you were building a perfect team around Rondo, you'd want a star shooter like Ray, a star offensive player like Pierce... and two bigs who could pull defenders out of the paint (KG and Bass).  That allowed Rondo to control the ball most of the time, and if the offense was moving correctly he'd always have a weapon to kick the ball to for an open shot.  Tons of assists.  If defenders were sticking with their man, Rondo had the option of burning his defender and going into the paint... which was open thanks to his big men shooters.

I seem to think that was what draft experts were referring to when they said that Ainge drafting Kelly Olynyk signals that Boston is leaning towards keeping Rondo.   Olynyk is a poor defender, but he projects to be a 7 footer who can knock down shots from any range.  That fits in well with the kind of player Rondo needs to be successful. 

It was interesting that last year prior to his injury, Boston was actually below .500.  I don't know how much of that you can blame on losing Ray... but it's interesting to note that guys like Jason Terry need the ball in order to be successful.  If Terry had the ball, nobody is respecting Rondo enough to open up space for Terry.  This just goes back to the idea that Rondo is kind of a liability if he isn't holding the ball at all times.  And this is partially why I was concerned that Rondo and Jeff Green wouldn't really work that well since Jeff Green seemed to be at his best when he was allowed to create for himself and penetrate into the lane.   It might be an overblown concern, but it's not like ROndo would be a serious threat to knock down a three if Green kicked it out to him. 

This all forms the crux of why I don't think you can build a team around Rondo as the best player.  He's a very good player who often has amazing games... but he's a little overrated and might be a bit of a product of the players he has had around him.  We'll see what happens, I guess.

The counter-argument to this is that our offense looked it's very best with a lineup of Rondo, Ray, Pierce, KG and Shaq.  But even at Shaq's age, Shaq was still Shaq.  It was impossible for that guy not to get into the low post.

The second counter-argument to this is, "yah, but what about when we had Perk, etc"... but those teams were never really "Rondo" teams.  We weren't successful because of our offense... we were successful, because we had the best defense in the league.  A defense built around Kevin Garnett. 
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 03:11:17 AM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Building around Rajon Rondo. Who fits?
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2013, 03:30:35 AM »

Offline More Banners

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I'm not an expert so don't take my word as the gospel.  I'm just giving you my interpretation of what others have said over the years. 

Rondo's biggest weakness has been that he's somewhat of a liability on offense if he doesn't have the ball.  He's a below average shooter.  Prior to his injury he seemed to be improving, but defenders don't respect his shot... they often slack off him entirely.  But back before his injury, Rondo was really good at penetrating with his quickness/athleticism and finishing in the lane.   So it seemed to me that there had been a push to surround Rondo with shooters.  You can't pack the lane with low post players, because it prevents Rondo from penetrating.  If there are low post players in the lane, that mean's there are post defenders in the lane... and thus it's difficult for Rondo to drive without getting swatted. 

So the idea had been to get big men who could shoot mid-range shots.  That's KG's game.  KG wasn't a post player.  He knocked down mid-range shots.  Having a center who pulled defenders out of the paint was great for Rondo.   Meanwhile, we invested a ton of time in teaching Glen Davis how to knock down mid-range shots for that very reason... and when Davis proved to be inconsistent, we traded for Brandon Bass.  The one thing Brandon Bass does well is knock down mid-range shots.  We also obviously benefited from having arguably the most dangerous shooter in the world out there with Rondo... Ray Allen.  Having Ray spread the floor was great for Rondo.   Paul Pierce was a "jack of all trades" on offense and commanded attention at all times.

Really then, if you were building a perfect team around Rondo, you'd want a star shooter like Ray, a star offensive player like Pierce... and two bigs who could pull defenders out of the paint (KG and Bass).  That allowed Rondo to control the ball most of the time, and if the offense was moving correctly he'd always have a weapon to kick the ball to for an open shot.  Tons of assists.  If defenders were sticking with their man, Rondo had the option of burning his defender and going into the paint... which was open thanks to his big men shooters.

I seem to think that was what draft experts were referring to when they said that Ainge drafting Kelly Olynyk signals that Boston is leaning towards keeping Rondo.   Olynyk is a poor defender, but he projects to be a 7 footer who can knock down shots from any range.  That fits in well with the kind of player Rondo needs to be successful. 

It was interesting that last year prior to his injury, Boston was actually below .500.  I don't know how much of that you can blame on losing Ray... but it's interesting to note that guys like Jason Terry need the ball in order to be successful.  If Terry had the ball, nobody is respecting Rondo enough to open up space for Terry.  This just goes back to the idea that Rondo is kind of a liability if he isn't holding the ball at all times.  And this is partially why I was concerned that Rondo and Jeff Green wouldn't really work that well since Jeff Green seemed to be at his best when he was allowed to create for himself and penetrate into the lane.   It might be an overblown concern, but it's not like ROndo would be a serious threat to knock down a three if Green kicked it out to him. 

This all forms the crux of why I don't think you can build a team around Rondo as the best player.  He's a very good player who often has amazing games... but he's a little overrated and might be a bit of a product of the players he has had around him.  We'll see what happens, I guess.

The counter-argument to this is that our offense looked it's very best with a lineup of Rondo, Ray, Pierce, KG and Shaq.  But even at Shaq's age, Shaq was still Shaq.  It was impossible for that guy not to get into the low post.

The second counter-argument to this is, "yah, but what about when we had Perk, etc"... but those teams were never really "Rondo" teams.  We weren't successful because of our offense... we were successful, because we had the best defense in the league.  A defense built around Kevin Garnett.

Nice.

The other side of the whole thing, though, is that Rondo is just too darn good, and it shouldn't be that hard to get 3-and-D guys to put around him, and small ball-type pick-and-pop guys like Bass (or any face-up Eurobig, right?) will probably look pretty good, so long as they don't have hands like Melo, Blount, Kwame Brown, etc.

In 08, Ray, Pierce, and KG were too good to not score if they shared and cared and got along, which they did.  That group could get away with non-scoring Rondo and Perk (but went with Posey instead of Perk at the end quite often).

So here we are talking giddy about the prospects and talent 2-3 years from now, while we have an allstar starter in Rondo, a re-budding star in JGreen who now has plenty of headroom to do as much as he can (no Durant/Pierce ahead of him).  Crash seems like the perfect new Posey; so what if he's overpaid and has 3 years; he might be the perfect fit...could be, at least.

Green isn't a ballhandler, but can thrive at those infamous "one dribble drives" that pierce used to use from the elbow when he used to be explosive off the bounce, and Rondo can surely get it to him at the elbow moving off a screen from KO or Sully, just like they play they ran for Pierce for 9 years, right?

So we have an allstar PG, 1st team defense SG, budding star SF, supersub 6th man swing F in Crash, great pick/pop PF in Bass, all-around talent and double-double machine in Sully, and 7th man scoring threat in KO, plus spare parts, going into camp,

AND PEOPLE ARE TALKING LOTTERY INSTEAD OF PLAYOFFS?


IN JULY???

Re: Building around Rajon Rondo. Who fits?
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2013, 03:48:29 AM »

Offline LatterDayCelticsfan

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Would I be wrong in tossing in the suggestion that Rondo`s offence would be helped immensely by screen setting big in the Jason Collins mold?
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Re: Building around Rajon Rondo. Who fits?
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2013, 12:02:48 AM »

Offline smiggity

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I think playing for a bad team for a year or two ultimately could be the best thing for Rondo. With the exception of his first year in the league, Rondo has played on a veteran, championship contending team. The high standards demanded by the Pierce/Garnett/Allen triumvirate was undoubtedly good for Rondo's development in some respects. There is an argument to be made, however, that the environment was not conducive to his growth as an offensive player. Rondo never had the opportunity to experiment and develop an offensive game without the pressure of competing for a championship. This year, when he returns, Rondo will have to take on a heavier scoring burden. He might struggle with that at first, but ultimately, conquering that challenge is the only way he will evolve into the top-tier, elite, build your team around him point guard that we all hope he can be.