Schroeder or Muhammad?

[Snakehead]

You can't rack up assists when you're sitting on the bench, which is what Schroeder will be doing as soon as Rondo is healthy.  Frankly, given the big men and scoring 2 guards that will likely be available at #16, it would be foolish to draft someone who won't come in and start on a rebuilding Celtic squad.

I thought I remembered something about FIBA accounting for assists differently based on whether it was a pass towards the basket or just passing the ball around the perimeter, but I can't find this right now, so it may be bogus.

But I do think FIBA scorers are way more strict in applying assist rules (see page 42 of this document for instructions of how to score assists: http://www.fiba.com/asp_includes/download.asp?file_id=554).

I'm not sure about the perimeter part, but it's just different and assist totals are lower.  I think they are stingier, plus also PGs aren't allowed to dominate the ball as much.

As I said earlier in this thread, Rubio averaged only 4.1 APG the year before he came over.

[Tr1boy]

Muhammad was not even interviewed nor brought in for  workout. Danny wants nothing to do with him imo

[Fafnir]

Muhammad was not even interviewed nor brought in for  workout. Danny wants nothing to do with him imo

Danny has selected players without bringing them in for a workout or interview before.

[Tr1boy]

Muhammad was not even interviewed nor brought in for  workout. Danny wants nothing to do with him imo

Danny has selected players without bringing them in for a workout or interview before.

Thats when it was a guy who they thought they had no chance of getting. Celts know as everyone in the league that muhammad is dropping like crazy, likely past lottery

[lightspeed5]

Muhammad was not even interviewed nor brought in for  workout. Danny wants nothing to do with him imo

Danny has selected players without bringing them in for a workout or interview before.

Thats when it was a guy who they thought they had no chance of getting. Celts know as everyone in the league that muhammad is dropping like crazy, likely past lottery

danny hides his interest in guys very well

[Fafnir]

Muhammad was not even interviewed nor brought in for  workout. Danny wants nothing to do with him imo

Danny has selected players without bringing them in for a workout or interview before.

Thats when it was a guy who they thought they had no chance of getting. Celts know as everyone in the league that muhammad is dropping like crazy, likely past lottery

danny hides his interest in guys very well

Yup, he has also let the C's name float out there as having "promised" players for whom other teams have promised. Just to cloud what way he's going in the draft.

[fantankerous]

Muhammad was not even interviewed nor brought in for  workout. Danny wants nothing to do with him imo

Danny has selected players without bringing them in for a workout or interview before.

Thats when it was a guy who they thought they had no chance of getting. Celts know as everyone in the league that muhammad is dropping like crazy, likely past lottery

danny hides his interest in guys very well

Yup, he has also let the C's name float out there as having "promised" players for whom other teams have promised. Just to cloud what way he's going in the draft.

Chad Ford has historically been pretty reliable with inside info on the Celtics draft plans.  So we can't simply dismiss his story that the Celtics would pass on Muhammad at 16 as Danny's smokescreen. 

I admit that I hope Chad Ford's info is correct.  Muhammad's game will not translate well in the NBA.

The more I learn about this draft, the more I hope we trade out altogether.  I think an empty roster spot has more potential than any player available at 16.

[Sully7]

Whomever we draft...they won't be on this team in 3 years anyway (if things go well).  We're trying to build assets.  Muhammed would be a better asset then Shroeder...unless we move Rondo. 

All the Shabazz haters certainly haven't watch him play many games.  He would easily help us right now.  Solid mid range game, can catch and shoot, and crashes the offensive boards.  Some might argue he fits better with Rondo then Green who needs to pound the ball a little before scoring. 

If the clip with him pi$$ed off is bothering you...Kobe would've done the same thing...you can add Pierce, Anthony, Wade, Jordan and Bird all to that list at one point or another on that list.  I have no problem with players who want to kill the other team...isn't that the knock on Queen James all the time.  Shabazz is a kid...19 turning 20...younger than Mcklemore and Olidipo. 

[RyNye]

All the Shabazz haters certainly haven't watch him play many games.  He would easily help us right now.  Solid mid range game, can catch and shoot, and crashes the offensive boards.  Some might argue he fits better with Rondo then Green who needs to pound the ball a little before scoring. 

I really hate it when people say things like this. It's so condescending. "Oh, your opinion isn't the same as mine? You MUST simply be misinformed!"

Did it occur to you that we watched him play and didn't like what we see?

He's not a good defender, looks lost on that end of the court, even on the college level. That does not bode well for the next level.

He isn't even that great of a scorer ... he can get the 3-ball, but his shooting splits are not very good for someone who doesn't make up for it on the boards or on D. And his assist to turnover ratio is abysmal ... as in he gets 2 turnovers for every assist ...

He's not a very intelligent or even a terribly skillful player. As his scouting report says,

"At 6'6 and 220 pounds with a 6'11 wingspan, he's an undersized small forward who's an average to below-average athlete for his position in the NBA. A player with his physical profile and one-dimensional game has little chance of being a star at the next level."

"Muhammad is a pure scorer who is most effective near his paint, where he uses his physicality to create looks at the basket. The question is how effective he can be at the next level if he has to score over the top of bigger and better athletes at the small forward position."

I honestly don't even see why people are so excited about him at all. He is a one-dimensional player, who isn't even that great at that one-dimension, oh and by the way it happens to be the one dimension of basketball that, historically, doesn't always translate well from college to the pros (unlike defense and passing and other skills, which tend to translate more consistently).

Seriously, Shabazz is going to be a bust. I just about guarantee it, and I rarely feel very strongly about prospects because I realize how inexact of a science drafting is. But I would put money on Shabazz being a bust, and I hope Danny goes nowhere near him.

[syfy9]

Love Schroeder, but if Muhammad is there, you gotta take him.

He has Tourette's, which is a very misunderstood condition. That's one of the reasons that he gets a bad rap re "immaturity".

His talent and fire are undeniable. He is a closer. He will be a bargain at 16 and  I would even try to move up a couple of slots to get him.

Royce White?

All the more reason to avoid him.

[syfy9]

All the Shabazz haters certainly haven't watch him play many games.  He would easily help us right now.  Solid mid range game, can catch and shoot, and crashes the offensive boards.  Some might argue he fits better with Rondo then Green who needs to pound the ball a little before scoring. 

I really hate it when people say things like this. It's so condescending. "Oh, your opinion isn't the same as mine? You MUST simply be misinformed!"

Did it occur to you that we watched him play and didn't like what we see?

He's not a good defender, looks lost on that end of the court, even on the college level. That does not bode well for the next level.

He isn't even that great of a scorer ... he can get the 3-ball, but his shooting splits are not very good for someone who doesn't make up for it on the boards or on D. And his assist to turnover ratio is abysmal ... as in he gets 2 turnovers for every assist ...

He's not a very intelligent or even a terribly skillful player. As his scouting report says,

"At 6'6 and 220 pounds with a 6'11 wingspan, he's an undersized small forward who's an average to below-average athlete for his position in the NBA. A player with his physical profile and one-dimensional game has little chance of being a star at the next level."

"Muhammad is a pure scorer who is most effective near his paint, where he uses his physicality to create looks at the basket. The question is how effective he can be at the next level if he has to score over the top of bigger and better athletes at the small forward position."

I honestly don't even see why people are so excited about him at all. He is a one-dimensional player, who isn't even that great at that one-dimension, oh and by the way it happens to be the one dimension of basketball that, historically, doesn't always translate well from college to the pros (unlike defense and passing and other skills, which tend to translate more consistently).

Seriously, Shabazz is going to be a bust. I just about guarantee it, and I rarely feel very strongly about prospects because I realize how inexact of a science drafting is. But I would put money on Shabazz being a bust, and I hope Danny goes nowhere near him.

Yup. To me, Shabazz has an incredibly little chance to be an elite player.

Elite players can perform and do everything at at least an average level.
 
Shabazz has one above average skill, and that is scoring. He is pitiful in passing, defense, (average on the boards), and overall influence to a team.


If you prefer Shabazz: Go to page one of this thread and read the post I made about him (with the video), and maybe you'll change your mind.

[Sully7]

All the Shabazz haters certainly haven't watch him play many games.  He would easily help us right now.  Solid mid range game, can catch and shoot, and crashes the offensive boards.  Some might argue he fits better with Rondo then Green who needs to pound the ball a little before scoring. 

I really hate it when people say things like this. It's so condescending. "Oh, your opinion isn't the same as mine? You MUST simply be misinformed!"

Did it occur to you that we watched him play and didn't like what we see?

He's not a good defender, looks lost on that end of the court, even on the college level. That does not bode well for the next level.

He isn't even that great of a scorer ... he can get the 3-ball, but his shooting splits are not very good for someone who doesn't make up for it on the boards or on D. And his assist to turnover ratio is abysmal ... as in he gets 2 turnovers for every assist ...

He's not a very intelligent or even a terribly skillful player. As his scouting report says,

"At 6'6 and 220 pounds with a 6'11 wingspan, he's an undersized small forward who's an average to below-average athlete for his position in the NBA. A player with his physical profile and one-dimensional game has little chance of being a star at the next level."

"Muhammad is a pure scorer who is most effective near his paint, where he uses his physicality to create looks at the basket. The question is how effective he can be at the next level if he has to score over the top of bigger and better athletes at the small forward position."

I honestly don't even see why people are so excited about him at all. He is a one-dimensional player, who isn't even that great at that one-dimension, oh and by the way it happens to be the one dimension of basketball that, historically, doesn't always translate well from college to the pros (unlike defense and passing and other skills, which tend to translate more consistently).

Seriously, Shabazz is going to be a bust. I just about guarantee it, and I rarely feel very strongly about prospects because I realize how inexact of a science drafting is. But I would put money on Shabazz being a bust, and I hope Danny goes nowhere near him.

Not "so excited" about Shabazz.  I do think it's interesting however when group think enters any board.  Re-read all 5 pages of threads and notice the criticism of Muhammed...its often unrelated to basketball and clearly from people who have watched that one highlight linked and nothing more.  Chad Ford says if this guy falls to 16 "it's just getting ridiculous"

He's tweener and I and many others see him at 2 guard.  His base line jumper, a shot open in modern NBA basketball, is solid.  He is a great scorer at almost 20 a game in a system that didn't really complement his playing style. 

I'm not here it insult anyone and if thats how the statement was perceived I apologize, I do however stand by my opinion.  Muhammed might not be a great player, he might not ever pan out, but he also has one of the higher ceilings in this draft.

NBADRAFT.net:
 Shabazz is afflicted with Tourette's Syndrome, though has seemingly dealt with it quite well. Still there are side effects sometimes associated with Tourettes that must be considered (depression, OCD, ADD) ... Some say there may be character issues, especially after finding out his father misled the media regarding his age ... While the question marks surrounding his age are legitimate, he was always a proficient scorer at any level playing against his own age group and even against older competition ... Wings with his ability to score the basketball, as well as possessing his athleticism, length and energy are still a relatively rare commodity in the NBA ... Despite going through a long process in gaining eligibility in the NCAA, Shabazz only had one single digit scoring game and did not miss any games after his early season three game suspension ... Despite a decline in his draft stock from his early season standing as a top 3 pick, Shabazz is still a desirable prospect and should be taken in the top 10 in a weak draft class. If he falls much further than 10, teams could ultimately regret it ...

[lightspeed5]

I agree, every critic of shabazz seems to have just seen that small clip of him pouting after the win, as if that is his entire character and as if he's never put the ball in the hoop before.

[celticinorlando]

I'd gladly take Shabazz over some back up point guard from Germany.

Me too. Schroeder looks to be a poor man's rondo...he is not a good shooter but great and setting others up..problem is he won't have anyone really to set up once KG and PP get shipped out..And will Danny try to stash him in Europe for a few more years? If Boston is looking to rebuild...get guys that you can develop with the big club

I think Boston does need a #2 PG..but I prefer Larkin

[RyNye]

I do think it's interesting however when group think enters any board.  Re-read all 5 pages of threads and notice the criticism of Muhammed...its often unrelated to basketball and clearly from people who have watched that one highlight linked and nothing more.

Um ... I literally just wrote 3 paragraphs criticizing Muhammad based EXCLUSIVELY on basketball reasons, and your response is to say that the criticism of Muhammad is unrelated to basketball? Did you even read my post?

I'm not here it insult anyone and if thats how the statement was perceived I apologize, I do however stand by my opinion.

Oh, I know you weren't trying to insult anyone. I didn't take it personally or anything, I was just saying generically it bothers me when people use that "Well, you just didn't watch him play!" line.

  Muhammed might not be a great player, he might not ever pan out, but he also has one of the higher ceilings in this draft.

See, I disagree. I think his ceiling is extremely constrained by the complete lack of any skill set besides scoring down low. He is a decent, but not great, mid-range shooter - most of his scoring comes in the paint against smaller defenders. That is literally his only basketball skill - he can't defend, rebound, pass, dribble, or anything else at an elite level. One-dimensional players do NOT have high ceilings as a rule.