Jackie Mac: Millsap plan A for C's?

[Boris Badenov]

Honestly, I think the only way we could make the numbers work, and put something attractive together, would be to include Green. Utah doesn't want any of our bad contracts, and without them or Green we can't send enough salary back.

But does replacing Bass with Millsap (which is a substantial upgrade, no doubt) offset the difference between Green and whatever other backup SF we could get?

Maybe there's a way to involve a third team who'd be willing to take some of our shrapnel (Lee, etc.) if we include the 16th pick? Even there it seems like there are more sellers than buyers of picks in this draft right now.

[hpantazo]

Honestly, I think the only way we could make the numbers work, and put something attractive together, would be to include Green. Utah doesn't want any of our bad contracts, and without them or Green we can't send enough salary back.

But does replacing Bass with Millsap (which is a substantial upgrade, no doubt) offset the difference between Green and whatever other backup SF we could get?

Maybe there's a way to involve a third team who'd be willing to take some of our shrapnel (Lee, etc.) if we include the 16th pick? Even there it seems like there are more sellers than buyers of picks in this draft right now.

If we trade Green, you have to assume Pierce is staying.

[Evantime34]

So, how would we get him here?  I'm not seeing a realistic sign-and-trade.

How about Lee a pick and our non guaranteed deals.

I don't give up Bradley Sully or Green, he isn't enough of an upgrade this year (or rather not enough of an upgrade to put us over the top) in order for us to sacrifice the future.

Someone on twitter said she also mentioned big Al, did anyone catch that part?

[Boris Badenov]

Honestly, I think the only way we could make the numbers work, and put something attractive together, would be to include Green. Utah doesn't want any of our bad contracts, and without them or Green we can't send enough salary back.

But does replacing Bass with Millsap (which is a substantial upgrade, no doubt) offset the difference between Green and whatever other backup SF we could get?

Maybe there's a way to involve a third team who'd be willing to take some of our shrapnel (Lee, etc.) if we include the 16th pick? Even there it seems like there are more sellers than buyers of picks in this draft right now.

If we trade Green, you have to assume Pierce is staying.

Yes. Then move parts (Bass, pick, Lee etc.) for a backup SF, if possible.

But like I said, maybe there's a way to hoodwink someone else into taking that flotsam and jetsam in a three-way, where we end up with Millsap. I don't see how, but Ainge is creative.

[Who]

I wonder if there is a three team trade with Pierce that makes sense.

Only thing I can think of is Pierce to Dallas for a trade exception with that trade exception going to Utah for Millsap. Jazz have a lot of cap space so a trade exception is fairly useless to them. Need to provide other incentive. Probably a first round pick. That might get it done. An asset for nothing (at no cost) if they are set to let Millsap leave anyway.

[Boris Badenov]

I wonder if there is a three team trade with Pierce that makes sense.

Only thing I can think of is Pierce to Dallas for a trade exception with that trade exception going to Utah for Millsap. Jazz have a lot of cap space so a trade exception is fairly useless to them. Need to provide other incentive. Probably a first round pick. That might get it done. An asset for nothing (at no cost) if they are set to let Millsap leave anyway.

I don't see why we'd work so hard to get Millsap if we are also letting Pierce go. Doesn't that kill our chances of contending?

[chambers]

I'm actually having second thoughts. I just looked at his stats and he's been on a decline for a while.  14 points and 7 rebounds per game on just over 32 minutes. I think this will make him much cheaper contract wise.
I'm assuming his decline has been from so many bigs at Utah been used in the paint but his minutes are still over 30 so I'm not sure. He shouldn't be on the decline because he's just reaching his prime. Did he have any injuries or ailments last season? I mean he's better than Bass but I'm actually disappointed after looking at his recent stats. Seems like he had a Courtney Lee type of year(good player on a poor year).
Did they change coaches recently again? Send like after Sloan left Utah Millsaps usage and numbers went down...very down.

[TheFlex]

So, how would we get him here?  I'm not seeing a realistic sign-and-trade.

Only option I see is Jeff Green. If Utah want him.

I would be all for that.

Bass and Bradley might work ? maybe we get a 2nd rd pick back?

I don't see Utah having any interest in Bass or having anywhere near enough interest in Avery Bradley to part with Paul Millsap.

I think Bass will be viewed as dead weight. They have three vastly superior big men who will eat up almost all of the available minutes. No need to pay your fourth big $7 million a year.

then how about Lee and Mel9?

No -- a bench guard / borderline starter on a multi-year contract and a third string project center for a top ten power forward?

Utah have cap space on the horizon. Only about $30 million on the books heading into next season. I expect they'd rather let Millsap walk away for free than take back Courtney Lee's contract. Spend their cash on a high quality free agent or two (or one FA and keep Big Al).

top 10 pf?

1)Aldridge
2)Love
3)Gasol
4)Randolph
5)Josh Smith
6)David West
7)Lebron or Bosh
8)Dirk
9)Blake Griffin
10)Ibaka
11)David Lee
12)Favors
13)Boozer
14)Faried
15)Anthony Davis
16)Drummond or Monroe

just off the top of my head.....

Seriously? Millsap is at least 10 on that list. You have to factor in circumstances. The biggest talent logjam on his team this year was at his position or adjacent position. While teams certainly benefit from having talent and depth, individual statistics usually suffer. Also, the best passer on the team was Mo Williams.

He's no Pau Gasol, but worse than Favors? Worse than Drummond? Really? Not yet. He's an extremely effective power forward who's still young and has a style that fits with Rondo.

As for Sullinger -- I'm as big a Sully fan as anyone but he's coming off back surgery and wasn't all that slim to begin with, he'll need a lot of time to regain the basketball conditioning he once had. He's also still a rookie, and even at his peak last year I would have started Millsap over him. Development is definitely something you have to pay attention to, but if you're trying to convince KG that you're willing to give one more run at it, it's not a priority. If Derrick Favors can play a fair amount of minutes behind Jefferson and Millsap for a middle of the road team and still see progress, Sully can do the same with a potential contender.

Also, I'm beginning to see the "NBA is getting smaller" theory as a myth. A large majority of contenders and quasi-contenders in this year's league featured strong big man rotations. Almost every team not named the Heat that went deep in this year's playoffs relied heavily on their big men to play the often understated role of series x-factor. Ironically, the only game the heat blew out the Pacers in was game 3, in which LBJ dominated under the basket. There is no Shaq in today's NBA, but there are a lot of Jermaine O'Neals (of course still continuing with the early 2000s reference). Boasting Garnett, Millsap, Sully and backup center X can't hurt when going up against teams like Indy, Atlanta, San Antonio, Denver, Memphis, etc. At worst, he's a rich man's Brandon Bass. At best, he's David West or David Lee (who I think should be higher on your list as well). Either way, we have an improved rotation that we didn't have last year.

[Who]

I wonder if there is a three team trade with Pierce that makes sense.

Only thing I can think of is Pierce to Dallas for a trade exception with that trade exception going to Utah for Millsap. Jazz have a lot of cap space so a trade exception is fairly useless to them. Need to provide other incentive. Probably a first round pick. That might get it done. An asset for nothing (at no cost) if they are set to let Millsap leave anyway.

I don't see why we'd work so hard to get Millsap if we are also letting Pierce go. Doesn't that kill our chances of contending?

Depends on how you rate Pierce vs J.Green.

And maybe whether or not you feel J.Green and P.Millsap are part of the solution going forward. Whether they can be smaller building blocks (alongside Rondo) to the next Celtics team for the next 5+ years ... rather than 1+ years of Pierce.

I am not sure where I come down on it.

[Boris Badenov]

I'm actually having second thoughts. I just looked at his stats and he's been on a decline for a while.  14 points and 7 rebounds per game on just over 32 minutes. I think this will make him much cheaper contract wise.
I'm assuming his decline has been from so many bigs at Utah been used in the paint but his minutes are still over 30 so I'm not sure. He shouldn't be on the decline because he's just reaching his prime. Did he have any injuries or ailments last season? I mean he's better than Bass but I'm actually disappointed after looking at his recent stats. Seems like he had a Courtney Lee type of year(poor).

His numbers per-36 do show a slight decline, you're right. From 18/9 to 17/8, roughly. Free throws and blocks were up though, which is usually not what you see from someone who's declining athletically. And, his assists were up too.

[Boris Badenov]

I wonder if there is a three team trade with Pierce that makes sense.

Only thing I can think of is Pierce to Dallas for a trade exception with that trade exception going to Utah for Millsap. Jazz have a lot of cap space so a trade exception is fairly useless to them. Need to provide other incentive. Probably a first round pick. That might get it done. An asset for nothing (at no cost) if they are set to let Millsap leave anyway.

I don't see why we'd work so hard to get Millsap if we are also letting Pierce go. Doesn't that kill our chances of contending?

Depends on how you rate Pierce vs J.Green.

And maybe whether or not you feel J.Green and P.Millsap are part of the solution going forward. Whether they can be smaller building blocks (alongside Rondo) to the next Celtics team for the next 5+ years ... rather than 1+ years of Pierce.

I am not sure where I come down on it.

Right. I think if you believe that there's a realistic shot at winning it all next year, you keep Pierce. If not, you keep Green and you have Rondo/AB/Green/Millsap/Sully.

Depends on what Danny thinks, but I think everyone is looking at Miami as more vulnerable right now than it appeared a month ago.

Millsap is only 28. Younger than I thought.

[KGs Knee]

I'd be ecstatic if we could land Millsap.  Not a superstar, probably not quite an all-star, but very solid.  Probably worthy of a contract in the $10-12m/year range.

Question is, where do we come up with the salary to acquire him in a S&T?  Even $10m would be extremely difficult.  As it currently stands, the C's will be hard pressed to pull off any S&T, being that they are in line to be right at the apron as the roster currently stands.  Essentially, the C's would have to send out at least as much salary as coming back.

The only way I could see it working is by sending out Green, or some complicated three-team deal.

[chambers]

So this is my third post in this thread and I've gone from very excited to somewhat disappointed. My own ignorance had Millsap at a regular 15 and 10 guy in the NBA. he's no where near that.
His best stats ever were 17.3 and 7.2 in 2010.
His recent playoff numbers are no better.
People are saying the number of bugs at Utah has affected him but his minutes are the same and his stats have gotten slightly worse.

I actually think Sully could do better with 30 mins a game at 14 and 7.
Unless he's cheap I'd rather tank. Makes us slightly better but he'll want a long deal and I can't see Danny committing to him with these declining stats. Maybe if we does Bass's dealing meh..I stand corrected by myself.

[Celtics4ever]

Bradley and Bass works for the numbers for Milsap.  I would assume the 16th is included and we get perhaps 46 their second rounder.  I doubt this gets it done though.

I actually think Sully could do better with 30 mins a game at 14 and 7.

We all know thoughts are never wrong.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sullija01.html

The 36 PER, which I do not like, shows Sully at 10.6 PPG and 10.7 RPG.   Less points but more boards.  But your 15/10 seems way off on the scoring but kudos for being spot on the boards.

[PhoSita]

Having a hard time envisioning a realistic scenario that involves Millsap going to the Celtics.