Would Josh Smith AND Big Al Be Enough?

[gpap]

Josh Smith and big Al? No.

And i echo the sentiments of the minority: what is the fascination with big Al indeed? if he wasn't a former Celtic, i doubt he'd be so highly thought of on this board. not denying he's a pretty good player, especially on the offensive end, but i don't think he's as franchise-changing as people think. I'd much rather have Josh Smith first before getting big Al actually.

Not everybody enjoys watching a team that, year after year, has no inside / post presence on offense and is terrible at rebounding.

Very well said. If anyone saw the Celtics/Knicks series, it should've taught us one thing. We are HORRIBLY weak inside.  It's like players can literally walk right through our defense without thinking twice about it. And, rebounding? Weren't we like in 28th place this year in rebounding?

Some need to let go of this myth that losing Rondo and Sully is what killed our chances because it didn't. It was because we had no size, whatsoever. Ainge should've replace Sully after his injury and he didn't.

what concerns me about having a team of Rondo, Smith and Jefferson is that the team (on paper) seems like it is still one player away. but in terms of resources (assuming the C's had resources), they'd need to spend it all to form that troika.

i say theyre still one player away because those 3 players are all still flawed. Look at the profile of real franchise players like KG, Pierce, Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Duncan, etc. They can do it all. Rondo can't consistently punish teams for playing off him and doubling his teammates (though i wish he'd make me eat my words). Josh Smith can't consistently make a jumpshot either and he has no playmaking ability. Big Al isn't a defender nor is he a playmaker either.

That said, Rondo is still the most complete of the 3 and thus, the best building block. It's very tricky to build around Rondo though because of his unique skill set.

Yup, no doubt the likes of Rondo and Smith are flawed. Which is why KG would be the last player I'd want to trade. First I'd deal Rondo and then I'd deal Pierce in that order. I would prefer to keep KG here to provide the experience needed to play alongside a Smith or Al Jeff.

[badshar]

I'd move Pierce in a sign and trade for Big Al or Millsap. Utah won't bite though, unless we could swing a third team like Clippers or Dallas in the equation.

Lol Badshar saying people wanna move Pierce just to 'move' him and not help the team. Moving him helps the team. We either get a better player for the future or some kind of asset.

Put Millsap and KG in the paint together and they'd be brutal on both ends. Millsap is extremely talented in the post as well.

I'd say we could get Millsap fro around 11-12 million. Would be interesting if we could move Terry+Lee+ a future pick for him before he walks from Utah. Although Utah can probably get way more for one of the games top 15 big men.

Perhaps you should think a little before laughing at my logic?

If you think Utah will give up Al so they can get Pierce, I don't even want to talk any further. Utah is not that stupid and they don't have a former Celtic managing the team.

Not only that, how exactly do you improve the team with Al? He is not a good defender. He is not a shooter. Sure he can play down low, but if the team needs KG to go down low, he willingly posts up and tries to do everything possible down low, which either ends up in a free-throw trip or easy points (thanks to his mastered turn-around jump shot).

I want Big Al just as much, but not for the price that people are willing to pay.

I do think that people want to trade Pierce for the heck of it.

Come on, how many times have we seen this? A player has a good game, people in these forums make 100 threads about how good and how underrated that player is. A player  has a good game, people in these forums immediately make 100 threads about how bad the player and how much he hurt us.

Also, if you and others are going to say Pierce did awful in game 6 due to his shooting percentage and he cost us the game, then why don't you people take a moment to look at everyone else in that game too?

In game 6, every player other than KG and Terry had a negative plus-minus:

Kevin Garnett: +1
Jason Terry: +4

Jeff Green -11
Brandon Bass -2
Paul Pierce -6
Avery Bradley -4
Terrence Williams -15
Courtney Lee -3
Jordan Crawford -4

Paul Pierce only had a minus 6. Jeff Green, who you guys want to replace Paul Pierce, had minus 11, which is worse than Pierce's minus 6, in case you didn't know.

Paul Pierce: 14 points, 5 rebounds, 7 assists.
Jeff Green: 21 points, 5 rebounds, 1 assist.

Clearly shows that Pierce took on the load of running the offense far more than anyone else and his 7 assists show that he was doing quite a decent job at it.

Almost everyone says we need to trade Pierce because he is old which was evident in game 6. Are you kidding me?! Green and Williams both had much worse +/-.

[lightspeed5]

big al is horrible. when you give up everything for a player, you want a superstar in return, not a psuedo-star who is a black hole on offense and non-existent on defense.

D12? yes

DMC? yes

 
big al? no.
gortat? no.

big al or gortat wouldnt even be close to pushing us over the top to contend.

[CelticConcourse]

I would gladly take Big Al... I don't want to give the max to JS

[LB3533]

Jazz had much better (and higher ranked) offense when they had Derron Williams, Boozer and a healthy Memhet Okur.

I think having either Josh Smith and or Big Al would kill spacing on the floor and not allow Rondo to get to the rim as much as he could.

With the way the rules are designed, unless you build your team with shooters 1-4, then your 5 will have very little room and time to work to get quality scores.

Opposing defenses will double team, trap and the offense will be very stagnant, especially with the lack of quality perimeter shooting.

Also, outside of Rondo, we may have the worst personnel for post entry passes. We commit too many silly turnovers on these types of passes....I've also seen Rondo make these weird high lob passes to Pierce on the top of the key where, for some reason, we prefer to start our post position.

[bucknersrevenge]

Not sure that I'd want BOTH...but I'd take Big Al. I think Al's defense has improved this season. People who watch the Jazz on a regular basis have said so this year. Having a committed post up option to go to on a regular basis would open up things for other players. Clearly Al would help with our rebounding issues. He would help with getting easy hoops down low which this team really hasn't done much of since we had Shaq for that half a season.

Al would be a solid complement to Bass who played pretty solid defense in the 2nd half of the year. Having Rondo back and pushing AB back to his 2 spot along with Green at the 3, gives us a more solid perimeter defensive group which can help limit the exposure of Al in tougher situations. You add Sully coming back and I feel already better about that groups ability to actually get the board after having a good defensive possession. Doesn't matter if you play good defense if you don't get the rebound after the miss.

And I love KG for a lot of reasons but post play is NOT one of them. Having a guy that pther teams have to collapse down on opens up perimeter looks. It forces bad rotations leading to offensive rebounds. It slows the game down when necessary and creates opportunities for the fast break as well. So my team would be:

C- Al
PF- Bass
SF- Green
SG- AB
PG- RR

Bench: Sully, Lee, JET, TWill

Maybe sign a FA shooter(a la Korver) to help space the floor. Draft a big like Withey. I think Rondo could do a lot with a team like that offensively and on defense I really don't think they'd be nearly as bad as some people think. JMO

[TripleOT]

If the Cs move KG and PP, chances are the new team won't be a top contender. Taking the OP's premise, a team of RR, AB, Green, Smith and Big AL would be a 45-55 win team, assuming that Ainge could get some more shooting off the bench besides JET. 

However, having around $50M+ tied up in four players like Rondo, AL, Smith and Green would make it almost impossible to add the players this team would need to be a top contender, unless Ainge hits a home run in the draft. 

Both AL and Smith have top of the league skills in one area, but major flaws in their games.  AL's defense has gotten better, but Smith hasn't shown that he will consistently take good shots, which for him are shots in the paint. He hits only 30% of his shots outside of 10 feet- 420 points in 583 attempts, a pathetic .7 points per shot.  This guy shouldn't be taking shots out on the floor, a la DeAndre Jordan. If Smith ever accepted his limitations and just ran the floor, dunked, and took the ball to the rim on offense, along with his strong rebounding, shot blocking and defense, he'd be a much more effective player.       

[gpap]

If the Cs move KG and PP, chances are the new team won't be a top contender. Taking the OP's premise, a team of RR, AB, Green, Smith and Big AL would be a 45-55 win team, assuming that Ainge could get some more shooting off the bench besides JET. 

However, having around $50M+ tied up in four players like Rondo, AL, Smith and Green would make it almost impossible to add the players this team would need to be a top contender, unless Ainge hits a home run in the draft. 

Both AL and Smith have top of the league skills in one area, but major flaws in their games.  AL's defense has gotten better, but Smith hasn't shown that he will consistently take good shots, which for him are shots in the paint. He hits only 30% of his shots outside of 10 feet- 420 points in 583 attempts, a pathetic .7 points per shot.  This guy shouldn't be taking shots out on the floor, a la DeAndre Jordan. If Smith ever accepted his limitations and just ran the floor, dunked, and took the ball to the rim on offense, along with his strong rebounding, shot blocking and defense, he'd be a much more effective player.     

What's wrong with 45-55 wins? Didn't we only have 41 wins this year??

[Monkhouse]

If the Cs move KG and PP, chances are the new team won't be a top contender. Taking the OP's premise, a team of RR, AB, Green, Smith and Big AL would be a 45-55 win team, assuming that Ainge could get some more shooting off the bench besides JET. 

However, having around $50M+ tied up in four players like Rondo, AL, Smith and Green would make it almost impossible to add the players this team would need to be a top contender, unless Ainge hits a home run in the draft. 

Both AL and Smith have top of the league skills in one area, but major flaws in their games.  AL's defense has gotten better, but Smith hasn't shown that he will consistently take good shots, which for him are shots in the paint. He hits only 30% of his shots outside of 10 feet- 420 points in 583 attempts, a pathetic .7 points per shot.  This guy shouldn't be taking shots out on the floor, a la DeAndre Jordan. If Smith ever accepted his limitations and just ran the floor, dunked, and took the ball to the rim on offense, along with his strong rebounding, shot blocking and defense, he'd be a much more effective player.     

Jefferson has improved his defense. Courtney Lee should work on carving his role. Doc Rivers need to realize what roles are to be given so players can follow that role.

Josh Smith is still one of the most consistent players, his numbers have either been down by a little bit, or exceeded his earlier season years.

A team of Rajon Rondo, Smith, Green, and Bradley will be nothing but fast breaks, and alley oops. Not to mention T-Will can also be inserted into SG or SF.

I'm not saying that PP/KG can't help us win a championship, but their getting too old to even become those players that can. At this point we need someone to be the defensive anchor, and blocker near the paint. If we could keep KG, and have Jefferson that would be great. The only conflict would be KG can't guard or do as well at PF anymore. Jefferson needs to thrive in the Center spot.

At this point trading Pierce for Josh Smith seems like a better idea. If KG stays or leaves, then we should try to get Jefferson with some trades, and see if we can get Dieng. Look to work on with Lee so he can be the starting SG.

I'm not even impressed with the 2014 draft unless we somehow suck enough to land in the 1-15 pick.

Either way after next year, Terry will come off the books, and we can look to explore other veteran options.

For other 3pt shooters, we can look to enlist Pietrus, and try to get Dalembert for cheap if we wanted to run it back.

[CelticG1]

Not even close. Woyldnt be a good wbough team and woyldnt want them even for entertainment purposes.

J smith was playing with Horford and joe johnson among others and hasn't done anything

[pearljammer10]

Hmm, good question. I'd like to have either Al or Josh ALONG with KG.

I'd hate to lose KG because he provides the experience/intensity of the team and I think his presence would only help either Smith or Al.

Yeah this is the biggest thing for me too. They need another piece, specifically a defensive minded piece to anchor the middle. I know Smith is an incredible defensive player but can he quarterback an entire team in the paint the way KG can? Maybe, but I lean towards maybe not. Jefferson certainly cant.

A core of Rondo, Green, Smith, and Jefferson looks amazing on paper. It would all depend on who else we could get to provide the roles behind this core.

Say we had:

Rondo/Terry
Bradley/Lee
Green
Smith/Sully
Jefferson/Defensive minded big man on the cheap

I could see that lineup being contending in the East. I still would prefer a better more defensive minded player over Jefferson. Jefferson just doesnt have that winning edge after continuously being on losing teams year after year. He has always suffered from good numbers on poor teams syndrome and has always player on terrible teams with the exception of maybe one or two years with the Jazz where they were just mediocre.

[LilRip]

A core of Rondo, Green, Smith, and Jefferson looks amazing on paper. It would all depend on who else we could get to provide the roles behind this core.

I disagree. it looks like a great regular season team and an average playoff team. One that might get past the first round. In short, it looks like a brooklyn nets team (or was i the only one who thought that the nets weren't real contenders when they formed their core of Deron-Johnson-Wallace-Lopez?)

[pearljammer10]

A core of Rondo, Green, Smith, and Jefferson looks amazing on paper. It would all depend on who else we could get to provide the roles behind this core.

I disagree. it looks like a great regular season team and an average playoff team. One that might get past the first round. In short, it looks like a brooklyn nets team (or was i the only one who thought that the nets weren't real contenders when they formed their core of Deron-Johnson-Wallace-Lopez?)

No but I was completely with you on the Nets, never bought into them...

However, in comparing that foursome to this Celtics core we are looking at.

Rondo > Williams
Green > Johnson
Smith > Wallace
Jefferson > Lopez

So again, depending on the role players put around these guys could they be contenders? I think so easily.

[SHAQATTACK]

big al is horrible. when you give up everything for a player, you want a superstar in return, not a psuedo-star who is a black hole on offense and non-existent on defense.

D12? yes

DMC? yes

 
big al? no.
gortat? no.

big al or gortat wouldnt even be close to pushing us over the top to contend.

right on. +1

[Monkhouse]

A core of Rondo, Green, Smith, and Jefferson looks amazing on paper. It would all depend on who else we could get to provide the roles behind this core.

I disagree. it looks like a great regular season team and an average playoff team. One that might get past the first round. In short, it looks like a brooklyn nets team (or was i the only one who thought that the nets weren't real contenders when they formed their core of Deron-Johnson-Wallace-Lopez?)

Did you seriously compare that team to the Nets?

Deron is still one of the best point guards, but Rondo is easily the better one in the post season, and in grabbing more open looks for his teammates. Johnson is falling off steadily, and his contract is RIDICULOUS! Wallace is washed up. Lopez is probably one of the best offensive Centers, but struggles at time trying to post up other Centers...

Josh Smith is way more athletic than Wallace, and isn't a detriment on rebounds/blocking, or scoring points. Rondo can lead a team to a championship if he has the right pieces.

A team of Josh Smith, Green, Wallace, Rondo is definitely way more younger/athletic than the team posted up.

Lopez/Deron being the only two you can build your team around.