The Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sullinger era

[KGs Knee]

I think  a lot of people look at our young core of Rondo, Bradley, Crawford, Lee, Green, Sully, Bass, Shav & Melo and say no way that team wins.

I look at that crop PLUS two Max level talents and think that team can "definitely" win.

Ainge is simply putting complimentary role players in place now. He knows when KG & Pierce go he is going to have to replace those two talents with two similar max level talents.

That's all.

There is no way the C's could possibly keep Rondo and Green, and add two max-contract FA's.  One is possible, two, no way.  To do so, however, we'll need to either wait for Bass and Terry's contracts to expire, or trade them this upcoming season for expiring contracts.  I'd say we have three seasons to accomplish this.  If by 2015 Ainge hasn't been able to add to Rondo, Rondo needs to go.

I see a few distinct possibilities:

Rondo + Green + Max FA

Rondo + traded player (for Green) + Max FA

Rondo + Max FA + Max FA (involves trading Green for expiring contracts)

or

Complete blow up = Trade everyone

[green7]

add dwight to that team and it's a championship

[gar]

Danny is collecting assets. Unfortunately Lee, Terry,
Wilcox, Williams have limited value, so you need to be wiling to trade Bass or Sullinger or Bradley or Crawford or Rondo.

[connor]

I love the kid but we ultimately may look to move Avery Bradley at some point. We probably need a bigger scoring threat at the 2 guard spot. Either that or we move Rondo for a scoring big like Cousins.
I'd actually like us to keep Rondo and move Bradley+Green for Cousins.

Make it the Rondo, Cousins, Sully era.
Put a nice free agent small forward and and shooting guard next to those guys.

Potential powerhouse.

So let me get this straight

You keep the guy who has a discipline problem, who lacks the offensive talent to carry a team, and whom we have already proven we can win just as well without (Rondo).

Then you move a guy who has just beat heart surgery, elevated his game to a whole other level, and proven he can carry a team offensively as a very efficient 20PPG+ scorer (as well as the occasional 30 and 40 point games to go with it) along with a guy who is statistically the best individual defender in the entire league...in return for a big man with a major attitude problem who also happens to be one of the most inefficient front-court scorers (and one of the worst front-court defenders) in the entire league.

What part of this makes sense?

Jeff Green came back from a surgery that he had last year, and look at how poorly he played when he first came back.  There was obviously a mental factor holding him back from going hard (at the risk of reinjuring himself) along with the physical limitations from being out so long, and the lack of rhythm to add to that.  Then once he started to get his wind and rhythm back he has exploded, averaging over 20 PPG on better than 50% shooting from the field and over 40% from three.  I've seen Paul Pierce defer to Green for an entire quarter because he has that much confidence in his ability to score seemingly at will...and the scariest part is that Green is doing it all while still playing very laid back.  Every night that he has scores 25 it looks like he could have scored 40 if he wanted to because he's just that efficient.  For the present we desperately need a bigtime scorer who can take pressure off Pierce, and Green is exactly that.  For the future we need a legit >20 PPG guy who can take over for Pierce as our #1 scorer, and Green has shown he has the potential to be that guy too..and if he realises that potential his contact will be the biggest steal in the league.  Not to mention the fact that he seems to consistently defend opposing star swingmen better than any other man in the NBA right now. The defense he has played on Carmello, Durant and Lebron has been out of this world.

This isn't a "Bash Rondo" post either...I love Rondo and there is nothing I'd love to see more than Rondo and Green learning to play together.  I want both of those guys here.  But the sad truth is we need Green more.  Lack of scoring is the greatest weakness we have, and in a league where the biggest scoring threats are mostly swingmen, a defensive stopper who can slow those guys is critical.  Rondo is a great passer and playmaker, without him we are still a great passing team. 

As for Bradley, look at how long it took Green to get back to form...Bradley is only 22 years old, so give him time.  He actually has a pretty nice jump shot, he just needs to find his confidence and those shots will start falling.  He still needs to get his rythm back, and once he does he'll be fine.

Cousins is not the answer.  I once thought he was, but he's not.  We really could use a talented ig, but that doesn't mean we should take the first flawed big man we can find that has talent.  Find a guy who fits the culture and the needs of the team...give it time and that guy will pop up for us.

Danny makes that trade in a heartbeat. He drives to Green's house with Bradley riding shotgun and takes them both to the airport before the Kings have a chance to change their mind.

Cousins is a terribly inefficient big man, with some truly horrible shot selection, attitude problems and is incredible immature leading to difficulty coaching him.

He is also a guy who has average 18/10 for the last two years and has incredible physical tools to be the best big man in the game (size, strength, length, power). Has steadily increased his FG% and FT% the last 3 years, while still having a very poor shot selection. Can you imagine what kind of numbers he could be putting up if he stopped putting up 17 footers (a product of both his poor shot selection and the Kings being awful) and worked on being more efficient down low?

He has a very good mid-range jumper for a guy his size (he just needs to post up more), can score over both shoulders, rebounds extremely well and plays strong defense.

Oh and he is 22.

The sky is the limit with this kid if someone can get through to him and KG would be the guy at the top of the list to mentor him to reach all of his potential (Doc is probably second on that list).

He's only 22, he will quite literally (one hopes) mature over the next few years. A kid like that coming from a dominant Kentucky college team being relegated to play for the god-awful Kings is going to kick up a fuss. I'm not saying that he is going to turn into a model citizen, but winning and a veteran locker room can do wonders.

Combine him with fellow Kentucky alum Rondo and his shot selection and efficiency is going to improve drastically, not to mention what its going to do for Rondo's game by giving him a legitimate pick n' roll partner and a threat down low to pass to/draw defenders when he attacks the rim.

Green has done great for us in the second half and has tons of potential. He's been efficient, attacked the rim well and played great defense. He's also been extremely inconsistent, hasn't rebounded well and managed to completely disappear in some games, in particular when he is playing with other star talent. Green has shown he can be a great player on a bad team, but he hasn't been the same player with KG and PP on the court. He isn't even the best SF on our team.

Bradley has similarly done great things for the Celtics especially his defense. But I think he is a bench player at the end of the day. His defense is a tempo/game changer and he can be a lock down defender on some of the best players in the league, but his offense has limitations and unless he is paired with an extremely efficient scorer at the point the back court is going to struggle at times. Plus SG happens to be the only position on our roster that we actually have depth at. 

You say Green can be a 20ppg guy for the Celtics, well Cousins has already shown he IS that kind of player and he solves our other gaping hole with his rebounding ability. Cousins isn't as efficient as Green, but thats completely fixable and if he becomes more efficient he is going to be a top 3 center in this league. Green has shown flashes of being an absolute steal, but he has also shown the ability to turn invisible at times. If we can sell high on him and get back a legit big man with unbelievable potential you do it and don't look back.

Cousins would lift this team up far more with his inside presence and rebounding ability than Green and Bradley combined. He is a true building block for the future.

[dasani]

I love the kid but we ultimately may look to move Avery Bradley at some point. We probably need a bigger scoring threat at the 2 guard spot. Either that or we move Rondo for a scoring big like Cousins.
I'd actually like us to keep Rondo and move Bradley+Green for Cousins.

Make it the Rondo, Cousins, Sully era.
Put a nice free agent small forward and and shooting guard next to those guys.

Potential powerhouse.

So let me get this straight

You keep the guy who has a discipline problem, who lacks the offensive talent to carry a team, and whom we have already proven we can win just as well without (Rondo).

Then you move a guy who has just beat heart surgery, elevated his game to a whole other level, and proven he can carry a team offensively as a very efficient 20PPG+ scorer (as well as the occasional 30 and 40 point games to go with it) along with a guy who is statistically the best individual defender in the entire league...in return for a big man with a major attitude problem who also happens to be one of the most inefficient front-court scorers (and one of the worst front-court defenders) in the entire league.

What part of this makes sense?

Jeff Green came back from a surgery that he had last year, and look at how poorly he played when he first came back.  There was obviously a mental factor holding him back from going hard (at the risk of reinjuring himself) along with the physical limitations from being out so long, and the lack of rhythm to add to that.  Then once he started to get his wind and rhythm back he has exploded, averaging over 20 PPG on better than 50% shooting from the field and over 40% from three.  I've seen Paul Pierce defer to Green for an entire quarter because he has that much confidence in his ability to score seemingly at will...and the scariest part is that Green is doing it all while still playing very laid back.  Every night that he has scores 25 it looks like he could have scored 40 if he wanted to because he's just that efficient.  For the present we desperately need a bigtime scorer who can take pressure off Pierce, and Green is exactly that.  For the future we need a legit >20 PPG guy who can take over for Pierce as our #1 scorer, and Green has shown he has the potential to be that guy too..and if he realises that potential his contact will be the biggest steal in the league.  Not to mention the fact that he seems to consistently defend opposing star swingmen better than any other man in the NBA right now. The defense he has played on Carmello, Durant and Lebron has been out of this world.

This isn't a "Bash Rondo" post either...I love Rondo and there is nothing I'd love to see more than Rondo and Green learning to play together.  I want both of those guys here.  But the sad truth is we need Green more.  Lack of scoring is the greatest weakness we have, and in a league where the biggest scoring threats are mostly swingmen, a defensive stopper who can slow those guys is critical.  Rondo is a great passer and playmaker, without him we are still a great passing team. 

As for Bradley, look at how long it took Green to get back to form...Bradley is only 22 years old, so give him time.  He actually has a pretty nice jump shot, he just needs to find his confidence and those shots will start falling.  He still needs to get his rythm back, and once he does he'll be fine.

Cousins is not the answer.  I once thought he was, but he's not.  We really could use a talented ig, but that doesn't mean we should take the first flawed big man we can find that has talent.  Find a guy who fits the culture and the needs of the team...give it time and that guy will pop up for us.

Danny makes that trade in a heartbeat. He drives to Green's house with Bradley riding shotgun and takes them both to the airport before the Kings have a chance to change their mind.

Cousins is a terribly inefficient big man, with some truly horrible shot selection, attitude problems and is incredible immature leading to difficulty coaching him.

He is also a guy who has average 18/10 for the last two years and has incredible physical tools to be the best big man in the game (size, strength, length, power). Has steadily increased his FG% and FT% the last 3 years, while still having a very poor shot selection. Can you imagine what kind of numbers he could be putting up if he stopped putting up 17 footers (a product of both his poor shot selection and the Kings being awful) and worked on being more efficient down low?

He has a very good mid-range jumper for a guy his size (he just needs to post up more), can score over both shoulders, rebounds extremely well and plays strong defense.

Oh and he is 22.

The sky is the limit with this kid if someone can get through to him and KG would be the guy at the top of the list to mentor him to reach all of his potential (Doc is probably second on that list).

He's only 22, he will quite literally (one hopes) mature over the next few years. A kid like that coming from a dominant Kentucky college team being relegated to play for the god-awful Kings is going to kick up a fuss. I'm not saying that he is going to turn into a model citizen, but winning and a veteran locker room can do wonders.

Combine him with fellow Kentucky alum Rondo and his shot selection and efficiency is going to improve drastically, not to mention what its going to do for Rondo's game by giving him a legitimate pick n' roll partner and a threat down low to pass to/draw defenders when he attacks the rim.

Green has done great for us in the second half and has tons of potential. He's been efficient, attacked the rim well and played great defense. He's also been extremely inconsistent, hasn't rebounded well and managed to completely disappear in some games, in particular when he is playing with other star talent. Green has shown he can be a great player on a bad team, but he hasn't been the same player with KG and PP on the court. He isn't even the best SF on our team.

Bradley has similarly done great things for the Celtics especially his defense. But I think he is a bench player at the end of the day. His defense is a tempo/game changer and he can be a lock down defender on some of the best players in the league, but his offense has limitations and unless he is paired with an extremely efficient scorer at the point the back court is going to struggle at times. Plus SG happens to be the only position on our roster that we actually have depth at. 

You say Green can be a 20ppg guy for the Celtics, well Cousins has already shown he IS that kind of player and he solves our other gaping hole with his rebounding ability. Cousins isn't as efficient as Green, but thats completely fixable and if he becomes more efficient he is going to be a top 3 center in this league. Green has shown flashes of being an absolute steal, but he has also shown the ability to turn invisible at times. If we can sell high on him and get back a legit big man with unbelievable potential you do it and don't look back.

Cousins would lift this team up far more with his inside presence and rebounding ability than Green and Bradley combined. He is a true building block for the future.

Agreed Cousin/Rondo>>>>>>>>Green as a future star. I'm sorry I like him (Green) but don't see him as a the star people are making him out to be. He's a glorified role player and has yet to win without Pierce or KG next to him. He is just slightly above average. If you can pull of a decent trade for him this off season (something like a Cousins deal) you go for it.

[vjcsmoke]

What part of this makes sense?

The part where you keep Rondo, the much better player, and get rid of the player, Green, that is showing flashes that when he is a number one option on a bad team he can produce but when he is a role player on a contender he disappears.

Rondo is a proven playoff commodity. Green can light it up if his team stinks. I want the playoff commodity.

Honestly, they can both be traded as far as I am concerned if it brings in a singular talent that could become a superduperstar and lead the team to another title.

And where has Green proven that he can't 'get it done' in the playoffs and only on a team that stinks?  A lot of assumptions being made here on your part.

The Celtics show that they can win without Rondo.  But I'm not confident they can win without PP and KG.  But lets face it both of those players are retiring pretty soon.

The only compensation we get is that salary space back.  Because they will veto any trades.  It's going to be hard to improve this team without moving a major piece and I think Rondo is the most valuable trade asset that we have.  Teams can win with mediocre point guards.  Just look at the Heat.

[ianboyextreme]

Hope you're not banking on this era ever even happening

Hope youre not banking on it NOT happening cause it will be.

[TheTruthFot18]

Then again Al Jefferson would also fill that empty spot.

No thanks. And it won't happen in the draft either.

The only way they get a decent center or one with potential is through a trade

[CelticConcourse]

I'll take Big Al's 40

[connor]

What part of this makes sense?

The part where you keep Rondo, the much better player, and get rid of the player, Green, that is showing flashes that when he is a number one option on a bad team he can produce but when he is a role player on a contender he disappears.

Rondo is a proven playoff commodity. Green can light it up if his team stinks. I want the playoff commodity.

Honestly, they can both be traded as far as I am concerned if it brings in a singular talent that could become a superduperstar and lead the team to another title.

And where has Green proven that he can't 'get it done' in the playoffs and only on a team that stinks?  A lot of assumptions being made here on your part.

The Celtics show that they can win without Rondo.  But I'm not confident they can win without PP and KG.  But lets face it both of those players are retiring pretty soon.

The only compensation we get is that salary space back.  Because they will veto any trades.  It's going to be hard to improve this team without moving a major piece and I think Rondo is the most valuable trade asset that we have.  Teams can win with mediocre point guards.  Just look at the Heat.

When has Green shown he can "get it done" in the playoffs? He hasn't yet. He hasn't really had the opportunity fully yet, but Rondo has and he has done unbelievably well throughout his career in the playoffs. Its a rare quality to be able to put an entire team on your back and carry them when playing against the toughest competition out there and Rondo has shown he has that. Green hasn't. This year he has the opportunity to be that kind of a series changing player, but until he actually shows that ability Rondo has a significant edge.

Furthermore whether you like him or not Rondo has been a consistent factor on this team offensively and defensively, whereas Green has come up big and disappeared regularly playing a very inconsistent quality of basketball. To say the Celtics have shown that they can win without Rondo I think is a gross overstatement. Yes they went on a very nice little run when Rondo was out, but we've regressed back to basically a .500 ball club. There were so many things going wrong at the start of the season its a cop out to place the entirety of blame on Rondo.

And to say that the only compensation we can get back is salary relief is a mischaracterization of the situation. Danny was heavily shopping KG this season and he wouldn't have done that if he didn't have some sort of inclination that KG might consider being moved. Moreover there was also a deal that was close with Dallas for Pierce, so both could potentially be moved. And even if they retire they would probably be willing to let us move their contracts to a team needing salary cap relief before they sign their papers.

Rondo is our major trade piece, but in the deal being referenced we would be able to move Bradley and Green to get a game changing center for our rebuild efforts and next season. You make that deal. Even if you still want to move Rondo, you make that deal and then move Rondo for other pieces, but thats great value.

[ScoobyDoo]

We had KG, Pierce and Ray - why couldn't we go Rondo plus two max guys again?

Add Green -

Fill in your bench with guys like Sully, Wilcox, Shavlik , Crawford & Vet min guys...   

[nickagneta]

We had KG, Pierce and Ray - why couldn't we go Rondo plus two max guys again?

Add Green -

Fill in your bench with guys like Sully, Wilcox, Shavlik , Crawford & Vet min guys...   

Contractual realities of the current collective bargaining agreement make keeping both Rondo and Green after KG and Pierce retire an impossibility to sign one max free agent, never mind two. One of them will have to go for that to happen.

After the Bass, terry and Lee contracts expire, then another might be able to be signed, depending on what Danny does the next couple of years to fill the roster.