Doc bashing

[Banner18now!]

I'm curious to all the Doc bashes what options does he really have?? This is a very flawed team right now. Some people act like if Shav was playing for 38 minutes a night he would average 20 boards.
He is good in spurts but don't fool yourself into thinking he would own the paint if he played the majority of the game there was a reason why he was playing in China.

This is a team in transistion without their best player and a good young player in Sullinger.
They are relying on two guys that are well into their 30's and player in Green who doesn't show up every night. Temper your expectations Doc is the least of this teams problems right now.

[Clench123]

Exactly how I feel but leave it to detractors to think he should just pull out a stunning magic out of his expensive suits.

Not looking at how terrible Jeff Green played tonight (his inconsistency ALL season long), how Terry has been a colossal disappointment ALL season long, how inconsistent Lee has been, and all the injury that has befell us ALL season, it's easy to just heap a huge amount of constant blame on Doc, who in my opinion has done a remarkable job in keeping the sinking ship going...

Man, I miss Rondo.

[Galeto]

Things I'd like for Doc to do:

1) Not dick around with Garnett's minutes.  He doesn't even do the 5x5 crap anymore.  It's 4.5 minutes, 9, 4.5, 10ish.  There is no evidence that distributing his minutes like so keeps him healthier because nobody in the history of the game has been used like that. 

It doesn't even make sense in theory.  How is playing Garnett for such a brief periods in the first and third quarters supposed to be good for his health?  All it does is keep this frenetic, intense player idling on the bench for at least 3 TV timeouts twice in a game.  Instead of trying to be smarter than everyone else, just use Garnett like he'd had always been used before and how every other coach uses their players and then go from there.

2) Run some pick and rolls.  If you're running pick and pops all the time, it leads to just shooting outside jumpers all the time.  Also, it keeps the bigs from being able even to attempt to offensive rebound.  This team needs to be forced to get into the paint and one way to do that is by having their bigs go to the basket once in a while.  This genius, Doc, said he didn't use Ray as a ballhandlers on picks because he didn't think he was good at them.  He didn't even give him an opportunity before shooting him down.  You know what, Ray has been really good handling off picks for Miami this year.  In their recent games, Ray has run beautiful pick and rolls with Chris freaking Anderson where Ray has gotten all the way to the basket for layups because the defense had to pay attention to Chris Freaking Anderson.  Why can't the Celtics run a simple pick and roll more than twice a game? 

What is Doc doing since he's been running the same plays for the past 4 seasons without changing anything?  Miami has added so many new plays and wrinkles since coming together.  What's stopping Doc from implementing even one new play?

[dinome18]

I'm curious to all the Doc bashes what options does he really have?? This is a very flawed team right now. Some people act like if Shav was playing for 38 minutes a night he would average 20 boards.
He is good in spurts but don't fool yourself into thinking he would own the paint if he played the majority of the game there was a reason why he was playing in China.

This is a team in transistion without their best player and a good young player in Sullinger.
They are relying on two guys that are well into their 30's and player in Green who doesn't show up every night. Temper your expectations Doc is the least of this teams problems right now.

If this team is in transition then their GM and ownership didn't do them any favors keeping PP and KG

[kgainez]

Docs management and rotations are awful.

His play calling has be average this year, and terrible in the final minutes of games. We couldve easily won some games had it not been for the dread PP iso. And I'm scared because I think he may just start calling a JG iso here and there (like the 43pt MIA game).

I def agree about the pick and rolls and going to the roll man. No one seems to do this. But pick and pop for a jumper is alive and well.

He's got to change his strategy for this team. He can't just copy and paste.

[Banner18now!]

I'm curious to all the Doc bashes what options does he really have?? This is a very flawed team right now. Some people act like if Shav was playing for 38 minutes a night he would average 20 boards.
He is good in spurts but don't fool yourself into thinking he would own the paint if he played the majority of the game there was a reason why he was playing in China.

This is a team in transistion without their best player and a good young player in Sullinger.
They are relying on two guys that are well into their 30's and player in Green who doesn't show up every night. Temper your expectations Doc is the least of this teams problems right now.

If this team is in transition then their GM and ownership didn't do them any favors keeping PP and KG

I agree with that statement but the problem was KG was not waving his clause and the Pierce deal wasn't worh it so they had no choice.

[Banner18now!]

Things I'd like for Doc to do:

1) Not dick around with Garnett's minutes.  He doesn't even do the 5x5 crap anymore.  It's 4.5 minutes, 9, 4.5, 10ish.  There is no evidence that distributing his minutes like so keeps him healthier because nobody in the history of the game has been used like that. 

It doesn't even make sense in theory.  How is playing Garnett for such a brief periods in the first and third quarters supposed to be good for his health?  All it does is keep this frenetic, intense player idling on the bench for at least 3 TV timeouts twice in a game.  Instead of trying to be smarter than everyone else, just use Garnett like he'd had always been used before and how every other coach uses their players and then go from there.

2) Run some pick and rolls.  If you're running pick and pops all the time, it leads to just shooting outside jumpers all the time.  Also, it keeps the bigs from being able even to attempt to offensive rebound.  This team needs to be forced to get into the paint and one way to do that is by having their bigs go to the basket once in a while.  This genius, Doc, said he didn't use Ray as a ballhandlers on picks because he didn't think he was good at them.  He didn't even give him an opportunity before shooting him down.  You know what, Ray has been really good handling off picks for Miami this year.  In their recent games, Ray has run beautiful pick and rolls with Chris freaking Anderson where Ray has gotten all the way to the basket for layups because the defense had to pay attention to Chris Freaking Anderson.  Why can't the Celtics run a simple pick and roll more than twice a game? 

What is Doc doing since he's been running the same plays for the past 4 seasons without changing anything?  Miami has added so many new plays and wrinkles since coming together.  What's stopping Doc from implementing even one new play?

Doc did a hell of job managing KG's minutes last year, KG was a beast for most of the playoffs because of less wear and tear through the regular season. He is trying to to duplicate last year.

[Celtics18]

I'm curious to all the Doc bashes what options does he really have?? This is a very flawed team right now. Some people act like if Shav was playing for 38 minutes a night he would average 20 boards.
He is good in spurts but don't fool yourself into thinking he would own the paint if he played the majority of the game there was a reason why he was playing in China.

This is a team in transistion without their best player and a good young player in Sullinger.
They are relying on two guys that are well into their 30's and player in Green who doesn't show up every night. Temper your expectations Doc is the least of this teams problems right now.

If this team is in transition then their GM and ownership didn't do them any favors keeping PP and KG

I agree with that statement but the problem was KG was not waving his clause and the Pierce deal wasn't worh it so they had no choice.

I disagree.  I think Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett are proving to be, and are going to continue to prove to be, a huge help in the transition of this team into the next phase of the Boston Celtics.

[Galeto]

Things I'd like for Doc to do:

1) Not dick around with Garnett's minutes.  He doesn't even do the 5x5 crap anymore.  It's 4.5 minutes, 9, 4.5, 10ish.  There is no evidence that distributing his minutes like so keeps him healthier because nobody in the history of the game has been used like that. 

It doesn't even make sense in theory.  How is playing Garnett for such a brief periods in the first and third quarters supposed to be good for his health?  All it does is keep this frenetic, intense player idling on the bench for at least 3 TV timeouts twice in a game.  Instead of trying to be smarter than everyone else, just use Garnett like he'd had always been used before and how every other coach uses their players and then go from there.

2) Run some pick and rolls.  If you're running pick and pops all the time, it leads to just shooting outside jumpers all the time.  Also, it keeps the bigs from being able even to attempt to offensive rebound.  This team needs to be forced to get into the paint and one way to do that is by having their bigs go to the basket once in a while.  This genius, Doc, said he didn't use Ray as a ballhandlers on picks because he didn't think he was good at them.  He didn't even give him an opportunity before shooting him down.  You know what, Ray has been really good handling off picks for Miami this year.  In their recent games, Ray has run beautiful pick and rolls with Chris freaking Anderson where Ray has gotten all the way to the basket for layups because the defense had to pay attention to Chris Freaking Anderson.  Why can't the Celtics run a simple pick and roll more than twice a game? 

What is Doc doing since he's been running the same plays for the past 4 seasons without changing anything?  Miami has added so many new plays and wrinkles since coming together.  What's stopping Doc from implementing even one new play?

Doc did a hell of job managing KG's minutes last year, KG was a beast for most of the playoffs because of less wear and tear through the regular season. He is trying to to duplicate last year.

How do you know that's the reason?  There is no way to prove it either way.  KG may have just been a "beast in the playoffs" because he's really good.  His average minutes per game have not changed since this "experiment" by Doc.  It was 31.3 in 2011 before this started and last season it was 31.1.  This season he's averaged 29.9 minutes, the same he did during the 2010 season. 

Maybe the following things aren't related but before Doc implemented this plan, the Celtics were an excellent regular season team as well as an excellent first quarter team.  The past two seasons have been full of infuriating, average basketball and lost first quarters.  Maybe that's just because the main guys have gotten older, that's certainly a possibility but it's possible playing KG for so little at a time has played a big part.  The Celtics trail so much during the game.  And then when they're trying to comeback, in say in the third quarter, KG leaves the game after he's barely played. 

[Galeto]

There's far more to it but basketball is a game of runs and playing the right combination of teammates.  Since KG is so important to this team, sitting him after such brief stints has to have a negative effect on team rhythm and going on runs.  What is also does is keep KG and Pierce from playing together a lot.  KG might only play half his minutes with Pierce and vice versa.  How is that optimal for this team?

Doc is a master at shortcuiting runs or possible runs, playing your backups against starters, closing out the last  possessions of a quarter with your best players on the bench and subtoptimal teammate groupings.  The guy is a mess.

[CelticConcourse]

There's far more to it but basketball is a game of runs and playing the right combination of teammates.  Since KG is so important to this team, sitting him after such brief stints has to have a negative effect on team rhythm and going on runs.  What is also does is keep KG and Pierce from playing together a lot.  KG might only play half his minutes with Pierce and vice versa.  How is that optimal for this team?

Reg season is almost over, I'm just curious as to how he's played in the Playoffs. After all, this is what we've been saving him for, all along.... don't screw this up Doc.

[Banner18now!]

Things I'd like for Doc to do:

1) Not dick around with Garnett's minutes.  He doesn't even do the 5x5 crap anymore.  It's 4.5 minutes, 9, 4.5, 10ish.  There is no evidence that distributing his minutes like so keeps him healthier because nobody in the history of the game has been used like that. 

It doesn't even make sense in theory.  How is playing Garnett for such a brief periods in the first and third quarters supposed to be good for his health?  All it does is keep this frenetic, intense player idling on the bench for at least 3 TV timeouts twice in a game.  Instead of trying to be smarter than everyone else, just use Garnett like he'd had always been used before and how every other coach uses their players and then go from there.

2) Run some pick and rolls.  If you're running pick and pops all the time, it leads to just shooting outside jumpers all the time.  Also, it keeps the bigs from being able even to attempt to offensive rebound.  This team needs to be forced to get into the paint and one way to do that is by having their bigs go to the basket once in a while.  This genius, Doc, said he didn't use Ray as a ballhandlers on picks because he didn't think he was good at them.  He didn't even give him an opportunity before shooting him down.  You know what, Ray has been really good handling off picks for Miami this year.  In their recent games, Ray has run beautiful pick and rolls with Chris freaking Anderson where Ray has gotten all the way to the basket for layups because the defense had to pay attention to Chris Freaking Anderson.  Why can't the Celtics run a simple pick and roll more than twice a game? 

What is Doc doing since he's been running the same plays for the past 4 seasons without changing anything?  Miami has added so many new plays and wrinkles since coming together.  What's stopping Doc from implementing even one new play?

Doc did a hell of job managing KG's minutes last year, KG was a beast for most of the playoffs because of less wear and tear through the regular season. He is trying to to duplicate last year.

How do you know that's the reason?  There is no way to prove it either way.  KG may have just been a "beast in the playoffs" because he's really good.  His average minutes per game have not changed since this "experiment" by Doc.  It was 31.3 in 2011 before this started and last season it was 31.1.  This season he's averaged 29.9 minutes, the same he did during the 2010 season. 

Maybe the following things aren't related but before Doc implemented this plan, the Celtics were an excellent regular season team as well as an excellent first quarter team.  The past two seasons have been full of infuriating, average basketball and lost first quarters.  Maybe that's just because the main guys have gotten older, that's certainly a possibility but it's possible playing KG for so little at a time has played a big part.  The Celtics trail so much during the game.  And then when they're trying to comeback, in say in the third quarter, KG leaves the game after he's barely played.

You really think managing his minutes in a 82 game season didn't effect his play in the playoffs?

If KG was paying 38 to 40 minutes a night he would have been just as fresh?

I will ask you how do you know that wasn't a big reason why he played so well in the playoffs at age 36?

[Galeto]

Things I'd like for Doc to do:

1) Not dick around with Garnett's minutes.  He doesn't even do the 5x5 crap anymore.  It's 4.5 minutes, 9, 4.5, 10ish.  There is no evidence that distributing his minutes like so keeps him healthier because nobody in the history of the game has been used like that. 

It doesn't even make sense in theory.  How is playing Garnett for such a brief periods in the first and third quarters supposed to be good for his health?  All it does is keep this frenetic, intense player idling on the bench for at least 3 TV timeouts twice in a game.  Instead of trying to be smarter than everyone else, just use Garnett like he'd had always been used before and how every other coach uses their players and then go from there.

2) Run some pick and rolls.  If you're running pick and pops all the time, it leads to just shooting outside jumpers all the time.  Also, it keeps the bigs from being able even to attempt to offensive rebound.  This team needs to be forced to get into the paint and one way to do that is by having their bigs go to the basket once in a while.  This genius, Doc, said he didn't use Ray as a ballhandlers on picks because he didn't think he was good at them.  He didn't even give him an opportunity before shooting him down.  You know what, Ray has been really good handling off picks for Miami this year.  In their recent games, Ray has run beautiful pick and rolls with Chris freaking Anderson where Ray has gotten all the way to the basket for layups because the defense had to pay attention to Chris Freaking Anderson.  Why can't the Celtics run a simple pick and roll more than twice a game? 

What is Doc doing since he's been running the same plays for the past 4 seasons without changing anything?  Miami has added so many new plays and wrinkles since coming together.  What's stopping Doc from implementing even one new play?

Doc did a hell of job managing KG's minutes last year, KG was a beast for most of the playoffs because of less wear and tear through the regular season. He is trying to to duplicate last year.

How do you know that's the reason?  There is no way to prove it either way.  KG may have just been a "beast in the playoffs" because he's really good.  His average minutes per game have not changed since this "experiment" by Doc.  It was 31.3 in 2011 before this started and last season it was 31.1.  This season he's averaged 29.9 minutes, the same he did during the 2010 season. 

Maybe the following things aren't related but before Doc implemented this plan, the Celtics were an excellent regular season team as well as an excellent first quarter team.  The past two seasons have been full of infuriating, average basketball and lost first quarters.  Maybe that's just because the main guys have gotten older, that's certainly a possibility but it's possible playing KG for so little at a time has played a big part.  The Celtics trail so much during the game.  And then when they're trying to comeback, in say in the third quarter, KG leaves the game after he's barely played.

You really think managing his minutes in a 82 game season didn't effect his play in the playoffs?

If KG was paying 38 to 40 minutes a night he would have been just as fresh?

I will ask you how do you know that wasn't a big reason why he played so well in the playoffs at age 36?

Did I say he should be playing 38 minutes a game?  Again, his average and total minutes have not changed.  How is playing him for a little bit in the first and third quarters and a lot more in the third and fourth quarters supposed to be so good for him physically.  I don't understand the logic.  He's playing nearly the same minutes, except they're usually from behind while he's doing it.  Rather than keeping him healthier, I think it just screws this team up in myriad ways.

[dinome18]

I'm curious to all the Doc bashes what options does he really have?? This is a very flawed team right now. Some people act like if Shav was playing for 38 minutes a night he would average 20 boards.
He is good in spurts but don't fool yourself into thinking he would own the paint if he played the majority of the game there was a reason why he was playing in China.

This is a team in transistion without their best player and a good young player in Sullinger.
They are relying on two guys that are well into their 30's and player in Green who doesn't show up every night. Temper your expectations Doc is the least of this teams problems right now.

If this team is in transition then their GM and ownership didn't do them any favors keeping PP and KG

I agree with that statement but the problem was KG was not waving his clause and the Pierce deal wasn't worh it so they had no choice.

I disagree.  I think Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett are proving to be, and are going to continue to prove to be, a huge help in the transition of this team into the next phase of the Boston Celtics.

If this is the energy and work habits that have been instilled by PP and KG to the YG's as KG likes to call them.. how are they being a huge help? This team consistently loses to very bad teams when either KG or PP don't play. Where is the data for this?

[Celtics18]

I'm curious to all the Doc bashes what options does he really have?? This is a very flawed team right now. Some people act like if Shav was playing for 38 minutes a night he would average 20 boards.
He is good in spurts but don't fool yourself into thinking he would own the paint if he played the majority of the game there was a reason why he was playing in China.

This is a team in transistion without their best player and a good young player in Sullinger.
They are relying on two guys that are well into their 30's and player in Green who doesn't show up every night. Temper your expectations Doc is the least of this teams problems right now.

If this team is in transition then their GM and ownership didn't do them any favors keeping PP and KG

I agree with that statement but the problem was KG was not waving his clause and the Pierce deal wasn't worh it so they had no choice.

I disagree.  I think Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett are proving to be, and are going to continue to prove to be, a huge help in the transition of this team into the next phase of the Boston Celtics.

If this is the energy and work habits that have been instilled by PP and KG to the YG's as KG likes to call them.. how are they being a huge help? This team consistently loses to very bad teams when either KG or PP don't play. Where is the data for this?

You're asking me for the data to back up your claim?  Shouldn't you be finding that yourself?

I'm just saying.