Doc's playoffs rotation

[clover]

Doc says he's got the first seven players in his playoffs rotation set:

"Because the Celtics have been so undermanned the last few weeks, Rivers said he has not been able to set the playoff rotation, unlike most playoff-bound teams at this point.

Rivers said that rotation is at seven players but will increase. The only positive of having so many injured players, he said, was that the Celtics would get a better look at others who might fill out one or two of those playoff rotation spots.

“I just want to see them play,” Rivers said. “We know who we like, but they’ve got to do it every night.”"

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/2013/04/01/celtics-paul-pierce-sits-out-for-personal-reasons/e1Jc8NQyF7z0MdG11e4ZDK/story.html

We can presume KG, PP, JG, AB, BB, CL and JT as the first seven.

I'd guess that JC and CW are the next two that they like but want to see playing consistently.  But it looks like Shav and TW are both being given the chance to jostle for position if the other two fail.

Thoughts? 

1) Does CW play more minutes in the playoffs than Shav?

2) Does JC get more minutes than TW?

[slamtheking]

Doc's playoff rotations are always the same:
1. run the starters into the ground, especially the older players.
2. substitute smaller players as the game progresses. 
3. continue playing guys that are having an ineffective game to really dig a nice big hole for the team to climb out of.

[clover]

Doc's playoff rotations are always the same:
1. run the starters into the ground, especially the older players.
2. substitute smaller players as the game progresses. 
3. continue playing guys that are having an ineffective game to really dig a nice big hole for the team to climb out of.

Ha!  Somehow that does ring a bell...

So it sounds like your answer to CW or SR is Bass, and to JC or TW is more JET.

[Fafnir]

Doc's playoff rotations are always the same:
1. run the starters into the ground, especially the older players.
2. substitute smaller players as the game progresses. 
3. continue playing guys that are having an ineffective game to really dig a nice big hole for the team to climb out of.

Hyperbole clearly but not even close.

Doc goes to a 8/9 man rotation in the playoffs. Usually 8 in a given game. That's not "running the starters into the ground". He's not Mike D'Antoni or anything like that.

Plus he doesn't go small nearly as often as people kill him for. Especially when he's had the horses unlike recent games.

2007-2008
Paul Pierce   38.1
Kevin Garnett   38
Ray Allen   38
Rajon Rondo   32
Kendrick Perkins25.2
James Posey   22
P.J. Brown   13.6
Sam Cassell   12.6
Leon Powe   11.7
Glen Davis   8.1
Eddie House   7.9
Tony Allen   4.3

2008-2009
Paul Pierce   39.7
Ray Allen   40.4
Rajon Rondo   41.2
Glen Davis   36.4
Kendrick Perkins36.6
Eddie House   16.6
Brian Scalabrine20.5
Leon Powe   12
Stephon Marbury   11.9
Mikki Moore   6.6
Tony Allen   6
Bill Walker   2.5
Gabe Pruitt   2.8

2009-10
Paul Pierce   38.8
Ray Allen   38.5
Rajon Rondo   40.6
Kevin Garnett   33.3
Glen Davis   20.1
Rasheed Wallace   17.1
Kendrick Perkins25
Tony Allen   16.3
Nate Robinson   7.5
Shelden Williams7.1
Marquis Daniels   3.4
Michael Finley   6
Brian Scalabrine1

2011-2012
Paul Pierce   38.1
Ray Allen   40.1
Kevin Garnett   36.4
Rajon Rondo   38.3
Jeff Green   19.2
Delonte West   18.9
Jermaine O'Neal   21.9
Glen Davis   21.2
Nenad Krstic   8
Shaquille O'Neal6
Von Wafer   1.7
Troy Murphy   3

2011-2012
Kevin Garnett   36.9
Paul Pierce   38.9
Rajon Rondo   42.6
Brandon Bass   30.4
Ray Allen   34.2
Avery Bradley   24.8
Mickael Pietrus   19.7
Keyon Dooling   10.6
Marquis Daniels   6.1
Ryan Hollins   10
Greg Stiemsma   7.5
Sasha Pavlovic   4
E'Twaun Moore   2.3
Sean Williams   3

[Fafnir]

To the OPs questsions.

1. I'm not sure. If Wilcox continues his poor play while KG is out Randolph looks like he could take his spot. My guess is that both will get spot minutes and he'll play whomever seems to be doing better on D to him.

2. I think Crawford will get more minutes than Williams. Doc already had carved out a streaky scoring guard role for Barbosa, and I think he'll continue to let Crawford fill that slot. Williams will be more of a foul situation type sub.

[kozlodoev]

Doc's playoff rotations are always the same:
1. run the starters into the ground, especially the older players.
2. substitute smaller players as the game progresses. 
3. continue playing guys that are having an ineffective game to really dig a nice big hole for the team to climb out of.

Funny how those got him to two NBA finals. I guess playing with run-down, smaller players while in a hole is the way to go.

[slamtheking]

Doc's playoff rotations are always the same:
1. run the starters into the ground, especially the older players.
2. substitute smaller players as the game progresses. 
3. continue playing guys that are having an ineffective game to really dig a nice big hole for the team to climb out of.

Hyperbole clearly but not even close.

Doc goes to a 8/9 man rotation in the playoffs. Usually 8 in a given game. That's not "running the starters into the ground". He's not Mike D'Antoni or anything like that.

Plus he doesn't go small nearly as often as people kill him for. Especially when he's had the horses unlike recent games.

2007-2008
Paul Pierce   38.1
Kevin Garnett   38
Ray Allen   38
Rajon Rondo   32
Kendrick Perkins25.2
James Posey   22
P.J. Brown   13.6
Sam Cassell   12.6
Leon Powe   11.7
Glen Davis   8.1
Eddie House   7.9
Tony Allen   4.3

2008-2009
Paul Pierce   39.7
Ray Allen   40.4
Rajon Rondo   41.2
Glen Davis   36.4
Kendrick Perkins36.6
Eddie House   16.6
Brian Scalabrine20.5
Leon Powe   12
Stephon Marbury   11.9
Mikki Moore   6.6
Tony Allen   6
Bill Walker   2.5
Gabe Pruitt   2.8

2009-10
Paul Pierce   38.8
Ray Allen   38.5
Rajon Rondo   40.6
Kevin Garnett   33.3
Glen Davis   20.1
Rasheed Wallace   17.1
Kendrick Perkins25
Tony Allen   16.3
Nate Robinson   7.5
Shelden Williams7.1
Marquis Daniels   3.4
Michael Finley   6
Brian Scalabrine1

2011-2012
Paul Pierce   38.1
Ray Allen   40.1
Kevin Garnett   36.4
Rajon Rondo   38.3
Jeff Green   19.2
Delonte West   18.9
Jermaine O'Neal   21.9
Glen Davis   21.2
Nenad Krstic   8
Shaquille O'Neal6
Von Wafer   1.7
Troy Murphy   3

2011-2012
Kevin Garnett   36.9
Paul Pierce   38.9
Rajon Rondo   42.6
Brandon Bass   30.4
Ray Allen   34.2
Avery Bradley   24.8
Mickael Pietrus   19.7
Keyon Dooling   10.6
Marquis Daniels   6.1
Ryan Hollins   10
Greg Stiemsma   7.5
Sasha Pavlovic   4
E'Twaun Moore   2.3
Sean Williams   3

Actually, I think this helps make my point about the minutes.

[clover]

To the OPs questsions.

1. I'm not sure. If Wilcox continues his poor play while KG is out Randolph looks like he could take his spot. My guess is that both will get spot minutes and he'll play whomever seems to be doing better on D to him.

2. I think Crawford will get more minutes than Williams. Doc already had carved out a streaky scoring guard role for Barbosa, and I think he'll continue to let Crawford fill that slot. Williams will be more of a foul situation type sub.

That sounds about right, though Williams has had a couple of quietly very good games I doubt he'll have time to move ahead of Crawford this year.  Maybe next season.

[Fafnir]

How so slamtheking? Do you want Doc to still use a 10 man rotation in the playoffs?

On the average Paul played 4 minutes more, Rajon played 3 minutes more, Ray played 4 minutes more, and KG played 6 minutes more.

Do you really think such minute increases is running them into the ground?

Also go look at all the years, and you'll find that Doc doesn't go small all that often in the playoffs. The minutes bare this out.

[PhoSita]

The playoff rotation will be whoever is healthy.

Pierce will play 36+ minutes a game regardless of health.  KG will likely be limited to 25-30 minutes a game, and only at 60-70% effectiveness.

I imagine Green will play a ton of minutes.  Bass and Terry will play way more than we'd like them to.  T-Will, Crawford, Randolph etc will play 5-10 minutes if at all.

[Boris Badenov]

How so slamtheking? Do you want Doc to still use a 10 man rotation in the playoffs?

On the average Paul played 4 minutes more, Rajon played 3 minutes more, Ray played 4 minutes more, and KG played 6 minutes more.

Do you really think such minute increases is running them into the ground?

Also go look at all the years, and you'll find that Doc doesn't go small all that often in the playoffs. The minutes bare this out.

Yes on both points.

Most teams play their stars more in the playoffs, particularly older guys who get rest during the regular season. Go and look at regular season vs. playoff minutes over the last five years for Duncan, Parker and Ginobili. You will see the same thing.

And by my count, at least 3 out of the top 5 minute-getters off the bench in each year except 2011-2012 were PF/C - which is actually proportionally bigger, since those are only 2 out of the 5 positions on the court. Even if you add the actual minutes averaged you get more weight toward the big guys. (Though I didn't look at games played which would matter too).

Last year the problem was that Hollins and Stiemsma were just not very good.

These views about Doc - along with "Doc doesn't play rookies" and "Doc doesn't play new guys" are just myths. I have no idea where people get them.

[celticsleyte]

It looks like the playoff rotation is still unsettled as it has been for most of this recent era.  Some years Doc was trying to work in the new vets off the scrap heap and other years injuries to rotation players have opened up spots for others to audition for.  Looking at the historical minutes for Tony Allen it is not surprising he left the team.

Kristic is one guy who Doc just did not favor.  I think he was better than his minutes.  If Doc does not like your style of play you will not get much of a chance even if you have basketball skill.  It is his perogative as the coach but some guys seem to fall thru the cracks.

[Chief]

Doc's playoff rotations are always the same:
1. run the starters into the ground, especially the older players.
2. substitute smaller players as the game progresses. 
3. continue playing guys that are having an ineffective game to really dig a nice big hole for the team to climb out of.

So true!!! TP

[Chief]

It looks like the playoff rotation is still unsettled as it has been for most of this recent era.  Some years Doc was trying to work in the new vets off the scrap heap and other years injuries to rotation players have opened up spots for others to audition for.  Looking at the historical minutes for Tony Allen it is not surprising he left the team.

Kristic is one guy who Doc just did not favor.  I think he was better than his minutes.  If Doc does not like your style of play you will not get much of a chance even if you have basketball skill.  It is his perogative as the coach but some guys seem to fall thru the cracks.

Usually guys over 6'8.

[BballTim]

How so slamtheking? Do you want Doc to still use a 10 man rotation in the playoffs?

On the average Paul played 4 minutes more, Rajon played 3 minutes more, Ray played 4 minutes more, and KG played 6 minutes more.

Do you really think such minute increases is running them into the ground?

Also go look at all the years, and you'll find that Doc doesn't go small all that often in the playoffs. The minutes bare this out.

Yes on both points.

Most teams play their stars more in the playoffs, particularly older guys who get rest during the regular season. Go and look at regular season vs. playoff minutes over the last five years for Duncan, Parker and Ginobili. You will see the same thing.

And by my count, at least 3 out of the top 5 minute-getters off the bench in each year except 2011-2012 were PF/C - which is actually proportionally bigger, since those are only 2 out of the 5 positions on the court. Even if you add the actual minutes averaged you get more weight toward the big guys. (Though I didn't look at games played which would matter too).

Last year the problem was that Hollins and Stiemsma were just not very good.

These views about Doc - along with "Doc doesn't play rookies" and "Doc doesn't play new guys" are just myths. I have no idea where people get them.

  Doc's playoff rotations are ideally a backup big, a backup wing, a backup pg and a 4th big who gets 8-10 minutes a game. Obviously injuries can interfere with this, most notably in 2009 when our backups were House, Marbury and Scal.