Randolph, T Will, Crawford = fail pickups

[Fafnir]

Again my point.

1. We lost Sully and Barbosa = pretty big impact for the team. One guy was starting and another great production off the bench

2. Yes we needed to fill out the roster. But our #1 needs were to somehow to replace all or some of the above guys productions.

3. T will is a passive , turnover prone player with an nba body. Crawford i agree to a point has done enough to prove he is not a total failure. But when i see some games, for example the last one vs the Bobcats and turnover after turnovers, wild play, it just makes me mad.

4. I think there is more talent out there such as a Dwyane Jones that is easily a better rebounder and defender than Randolph. Same for a guard, who can at least shoot or drive in and score once in a while than what T will can provide.

Our point.

Is that what you think are "better" options out there, aren't noticable better in most of our views. I don't think Dwayne Jones is a much better option, and I don't see any guards better than Crawford for a "spark plug" role. 

No player available to add is/was going to replace the productivity of Rondo/Sully. Instead we got some bodies and asked the other rotation players to step up.

[timobusa]

This whole thread is a "fail"

Again my point.

1. We lost Sully and Barbosa = pretty big impact for the team. One guy was starting and another great production off the bench

Sully was not starting, he started 5 games out of the 45 he played and Crawford is producing roughly the same amount as Barbosa

2. Yes we needed to fill out the roster. But our #1 needs were to somehow to replace all or some of the above guys productions.

Crawford = Barbosa. Shavlik/DJ White (tall big body rebounders) = Sully. and no one can replace Rondo, but T-will is a decent passer

3. T will is a passive , turnover prone player with an nba body. Crawford i agree to a point has done enough to prove he is not a total failure. But when i see some games, for example the last one vs the Bobcats and turnover after turnovers, wild play, it just makes me mad.

What do you expect? He's not a pure point guard, Danny and Doc thinks he can play point, which most of us do too, and he is changing his game to be a point guard

4. I think there is more talent out there such as a Dwyane Jones that is easily a better rebounder and defender than Randolph. Same for a guard, who can at least shoot or drive in and score once in a while than what T will can provide.

Not really, if there was Danny would have tried to get them. You talk like you know more about basketball than Danny Ainge or anybody in the Celtics Organization for that matter. If better players were available, they would have tried to get them, but they obviously wanted to go to teams with better records. Birdman to Miami and Martin to Knicks

[Celtics18]

8.  These guys have come into a completely different situation playing in some horrible conditions and inferior talent level in third world conditions (and also we got some guys from china ) to playing for the Celtics.  They are also not getting regular time to build up a rhythm.  I thought they have done rather well under the circumstance.

Great stuff.  I just wanted to let you know that somebody noticed that nugget of comedy.

TP.

[StartOrien]

What do you expect? He's not a pure point guard, Danny and Doc thinks he can play point, which most of us do too, and he is changing his game to be a point guard

I'm starting to think this is a bad idea. I think it's clear that Williams' psyche is damaged pretty badly, and while he's a talented passer he's clearly not comfortable in the role.

Things are only getting worse. He's not looking for his own shot at all, and making some really, really, really poor decision. Again, imo alarmingly similar to when Marbury came to the team.

The overall skills are clearly there still, I'd like to see him off the ball more often looking for a shot first.He's not a microwave scorer, but I'd like to see him take Crawford's minutes in the playoffs. Or at least given the opportunity to do so. 

[mkogav]

It's a little early to label these guys as failures. Plus, the bar is set pretty low for all 4 of these guys (White included).

Mk

[Tr1boy]

No i don't know more than the org. The Org also didn't know Randolph , White and T Will were going to be this below avg.

There is a reason its called a 10 day tryout.

But it doesn't mean you have to now sign them for the rest of the year. At least you can cut Randolph and get someone else.

[Fafnir]

No i don't know more than the org. The Org also didn't know Randolph , White and T Will were going to be this below avg.

There is a reason its called a 10 day tryout.

But it doesn't mean you have to now sign them for the rest of the year. At least you can cut Randolph and get someone else.

You're assuming expectations from the C's is that they'll be "average" players.

What do you mean by average? Average NBA players? Average rotation players? Or average D-league call ups and waiver guys.

Because they're in the third group for me and if the C's thought they were going to get an average player in the first two then they're delusional. Sometimes you strike lightning, but most of the time these guys don't have a impact other than eating some minutes.

I agree that the front office shouldn't hesitate to cut any of the guys they have on 10 day contracts if they'd like to try other options. But I honestly don't think any of our players have been "so bad" that they need to be cut immediately for the lackluster other options still out there.

The time to pick differently was long ago with Birdman/K-Mart/etc.... before other teams started picking players up.

[Boris Badenov]

No i don't know more than the org. The Org also didn't know Randolph , White and T Will were going to be this below avg.

There is a reason its called a 10 day tryout.

But it doesn't mean you have to now sign them for the rest of the year. At least you can cut Randolph and get someone else.

This is what you don't seem to be getting, despite the fact that it's been stated about 15 times in this thread.

It is in fact highly likely that the "org" knew exactly what they were getting (they are experts in evaluating NBA talent, after all).

The issue is that these guys were the best talent available, and still are.

So far your one big counter-example is Dwayne Jones, who hasn't played in an NBA game since 2010. Even then he played in a whopping 2 games for a total of 7 minutes. There is no evidence at all that he is capable of contributing more than White or Randolph.

[mkogav]

1. We lost Sully and Barbosa = pretty big impact for the team. One guy was starting and another great production off the bench

2. Yes we needed to fill out the roster. But our #1 needs were to somehow to replace all or some of the above guys productions.

Nope. That is not what these signing & Crawford trade were about. If the Cs really wanted to replace the production of those players then Danny would have brought in some vets, not 3 ex-CBL players and a washout from the Wizards.

These 4 guys are on Spring tryouts.

It's obvious Danny is planning for the future and these 4 guys are players that he has had past interest in. Last fall the Cs were one of the teams who were interested in signing TWill before he went to camp with the Pistons.

Two months of watching these 4 guys practice and some actual game time will help Danny judge to see if any of these guys are real assets going forward.

At the very worst, White and Randolph are not invited to camp, TWill is cut before the 13/14 season starts, and Crawford is an expiring contract.

At best, the Cs develop a cheap asset or two. Danny can then keep or use them as chips in other trades.

Mk

[timobusa]

No i don't know more than the org. The Org also didn't know Randolph , White and T Will were going to be this below avg.

There is a reason its called a 10 day tryout.

But it doesn't mean you have to now sign them for the rest of the year. At least you can cut Randolph and get someone else.

My response to this was deleted somehow.

I'd rather not repeat myself.

I know this is your opinion, but dang man, get some air, read a book, your reasoning are for lack of a better word, un-educated.

Only T-will is signed for the rest of the year. Not White, Not Randolph.
Who else can you get in this market? Renaldo Balkman? Good luck on that one, hope he doesn't choke anybody.

Below Average players?
They are NBA players, not great players, but service-able end of bench guys.
Below Average players are Me and You who are not in the League or any Professional Basketball Leagues else where..

[Fafnir]

No i don't know more than the org. The Org also didn't know Randolph , White and T Will were going to be this below avg.

There is a reason its called a 10 day tryout.

But it doesn't mean you have to now sign them for the rest of the year. At least you can cut Randolph and get someone else.

My response to this was deleted somehow.

I'd rather not repeat myself.

That's good because you violated multiple CBlog rules in your initial post and come close in your follow up. Don't attack other posters or accuse them of trolling.

[Tr1boy]

No i don't know more than the org. The Org also didn't know Randolph , White and T Will were going to be this below avg.

There is a reason its called a 10 day tryout.

But it doesn't mean you have to now sign them for the rest of the year. At least you can cut Randolph and get someone else.

This is what you don't seem to be getting, despite the fact that it's been stated about 15 times in this thread.

It is in fact highly likely that the "org" knew exactly what they were getting (they are experts in evaluating NBA talent, after all).

The issue is that these guys were the best talent available, and still are.

So far your one big counter-example is Dwayne Jones, who hasn't played in an NBA game since 2010. Even then he played in a whopping 2 games for a total of 7 minutes. There is no evidence at all that he is capable of contributing more than White or Randolph.

So basically what you are assuming is , you lose two key guys and replace them with nobodies? or practice bodies?

How does that help us maintain or move forward? Is the goal not to win it all?

I know realistically there is limitations of what we could of got during trade time , as we don't have much attractive assets and cant afford to lose anyone else on the team, but also if you look hard enough you could get more productive players. At least ones that make enough noise in practice to get consistent 5 minutes on the court. Doc at times i'm sure is worrying that Bass is not getting the rebounds , wilcox is not focused and would like to bring someone in from the bench that can just plain out get you rebounds. Give you a different look, maybe shoot jumpers, have some post skill etc.

Randolph has none of these qualities, outside of being an embarressment on court. DJ White prob hasn't shown enough in pratice to warrant time on court. Same said for T Will. Its no rocket science, you can see out there, he is losing balls left and right.

So the solution i have is, keep looking. Cut Randolph and/or White, plus if i were the celts i would waive T will and get a few players that can bring something to the table.  Last time i checked NBDL is a more advance league than the China league. Dwayne Jones is pulling down 12 plus rebounds a game , being a decent presence in the paint and scoring garbage buckets.

[CelticConcourse]

Yeah. Where's the 15/12 guy we wanted? White sucks! Shav sucks! TWill was supposed to be a good passer, I don't see enough 15-assist games!

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Failed pick up, as supposed to who?

It's not like we are paying them a lot of money, or give up a ton to acquire them.

[LooseCannon]

4. I think there is more talent out there such as a Dwyane Jones that is easily a better rebounder and defender than Randolph. Same for a guard, who can at least shoot or drive in and score once in a while than what T will can provide.

I'm not convinced Dwayne Jones is a better player.  More importantly, I'm not convinced he's a better fit.  He could be useful on certain teams, but I think the Celtics are better off with bigs who are more comfortable away from the basket on both offense and defense.  I don't know how he is on defense, but what I have read suggests he is likely to be the kind of guy who is better off if the team doesn't ask him to stray far from the basket.