Wes Welker signs with Denver Broncos / Amendola to Pats (Merged)

[Roy H.]

I have seen a lot of plays where receivers get their hands on a ball through some sort of amazing effort, but don't complete the catch.  Acrobatic plays, twisting plays, diving plays, plays where they're crunched by two defenders.

Is the suggestion that if those player don't complete what would be an otherwise amazing catch, that they're somehow doing something wrong?  Is a receiver who isn't talented enough to get his hands on a ball somehow better than the receiver who makes a play on a poor pass, but who ultimately doesn't make the completion?

As Snakehead said above, that binary argument lacks any sort of context or realism.

Well, for what it's worth, Welker lead the NFL in dropped passes last season, and the second guy wasn't even close. Make of this what you will.

I'm curious what constitutes a "drop".  If they count that incompletion in the Super Bowl as one, then it's a meaningless statistic.

[kozlodoev]

I have seen a lot of plays where receivers get their hands on a ball through some sort of amazing effort, but don't complete the catch.  Acrobatic plays, twisting plays, diving plays, plays where they're crunched by two defenders.

Is the suggestion that if those player don't complete what would be an otherwise amazing catch, that they're somehow doing something wrong?  Is a receiver who isn't talented enough to get his hands on a ball somehow better than the receiver who makes a play on a poor pass, but who ultimately doesn't make the completion?

As Snakehead said above, that binary argument lacks any sort of context or realism.

Well, for what it's worth, Welker lead the NFL in dropped passes last season, and the second guy wasn't even close. Make of this what you will.

I'm curious what constitutes a "drop".  If they count that incompletion in the Super Bowl as one, then it's a meaningless statistic.

Decided to do a quick search, looks like what I was citing was a bit bogus. But found this:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/21/signature-stats-drop-rate-wide-receivers/

Bottom line is, Welker drops a lot of catchable balls. Amendola is the exact opposite.

[BleedGreen1989]

To get back on topic:

I wish Welker all the best in Denver (except when he plays the Patriots, of course), and I look forward to seeing what Amendola can do.

Moving on, what I care more about now, from a Patriots point of view, is the additional FA moves the team makes. I'm particularly interested in the D, as this was a clear weakness of the Pats (relative to other contenders).

Yea I agree. There's still some very solid defensive players out there and I can't help but wonder why the Pats are being so quiet right now. Denver finished off their day yesterday by adding Rogers-Cromati and Terrance Knighton on the cheap. Two guys very capable of starting and playing very well.

I get some teams are just waiting it out but I hate to think that the Pats will sit back while all the good players are taken. They don't even need to spend a ton of money as there are some very team-friendly deals being handed out.

[nickagneta]

I have seen a lot of plays where receivers get their hands on a ball through some sort of amazing effort, but don't complete the catch.  Acrobatic plays, twisting plays, diving plays, plays where they're crunched by two defenders.

Is the suggestion that if those player don't complete what would be an otherwise amazing catch, that they're somehow doing something wrong?  Is a receiver who isn't talented enough to get his hands on a ball somehow better than the receiver who makes a play on a poor pass, but who ultimately doesn't make the completion?

As Snakehead said above, that binary argument lacks any sort of context or realism.

Well, for what it's worth, Welker lead the NFL in dropped passes last season, and the second guy wasn't even close. Make of this what you will.

Thought I saw where Jimmy Graham led the league in dropped passes.

[kozlodoev]

Thought I saw where Jimmy Graham led the league in dropped passes.

I think the discussion was about WRs. In any case, looks like the Pats replaced someone who drops a lot of balls with someone who doesn't.

[Donoghus]

I have seen a lot of plays where receivers get their hands on a ball through some sort of amazing effort, but don't complete the catch.  Acrobatic plays, twisting plays, diving plays, plays where they're crunched by two defenders.

Is the suggestion that if those player don't complete what would be an otherwise amazing catch, that they're somehow doing something wrong?  Is a receiver who isn't talented enough to get his hands on a ball somehow better than the receiver who makes a play on a poor pass, but who ultimately doesn't make the completion?

As Snakehead said above, that binary argument lacks any sort of context or realism.

Well, for what it's worth, Welker lead the NFL in dropped passes last season, and the second guy wasn't even close. Make of this what you will.

I'm curious what constitutes a "drop".  If they count that incompletion in the Super Bowl as one, then it's a meaningless statistic.

I would actually call that an incompletion AND dropped pass.

[nickagneta]

Great line at the end of the article that koz provided( TP koz):

"Not all drops are created equal."

Very true. Like Roy mentioned above if a player is in full dive mode and a bullet hits his hands and he can not hold onto it. Its a drop, but no biggie. The expectations of that players' coaches and teammates would be "nice try". I guess the expectations of Welker's coaches and team mates and of Welker himself is he should have made that catch that it was not one of those "nice try" type of drops.

[indeedproceed]

I have seen a lot of plays where receivers get their hands on a ball through some sort of amazing effort, but don't complete the catch.  Acrobatic plays, twisting plays, diving plays, plays where they're crunched by two defenders.

Is the suggestion that if those player don't complete what would be an otherwise amazing catch, that they're somehow doing something wrong?  Is a receiver who isn't talented enough to get his hands on a ball somehow better than the receiver who makes a play on a poor pass, but who ultimately doesn't make the completion?

As Snakehead said above, that binary argument lacks any sort of context or realism.

Well, for what it's worth, Welker lead the NFL in dropped passes last season, and the second guy wasn't even close. Make of this what you will.

He was also among the leaders in targets. Drops isn't the important number. Drop ratio is the important number.

[Donoghus]

Great line at the end of the article that koz provided( TP koz):

"Not all drops are created equal."

Very true. Like Roy mentioned above if a player is in full dive mode and a bullet hits his hands and he can not hold onto it. Its a drop, but no biggie. The expectations of that players' coaches and teammates would be "nice try". I guess the expectations of Welker's coaches and team mates and of Welker himself is he should have made that catch that it was not one of those "nice try" type of drops.

I think his reaction after that play kinda sums it up too.

[kozlodoev]

He was also among the leaders in targets. Drops isn't the important number. Drop ratio is the important number.

I understand this -- my main point is that Amendola is a discernable upgrade in terms of drop ratio.

[KGs Knee]

I guess the best way to settle the debate about the dropped pass in the SB, and who's fault it was, is to say this; it was what was supposed to happen.

"Supposed to happen", in that, by the pass going incomplete, and the Giants winning the Super Bowl, all was right in the world.  The good guys won, the bad guys lost.  It was meant to happen.  So, blame it on the "football gods".   

[KGs Knee]

I hate to derail this absolutely riveting discussion about what our coaches told us in high school, and how that relates to a play involving the best QB/receiver tandem in the game in the Super Bowl, but to me it seems possible that Belichick et al. felt that Welker:

(a) Might have made the Patriots a little to easy to game-plan when he is the first option on the field, in part because of how much Brady looks for him in the clutch;
(b) Might not be the best fit (compared to a top-tier outside threat) when Gronk and Hernandez are on the field;
(c) Is about to suffer a decline in playing ability.

These are really the only explanations I can think of that makes football sense.

I'm not sure any of these explanations are accurate.

A)  Even if it did make the Pats "too easy to gameplan", the correct solution isn't geting rid of the player, the correct solution is changing your own gameplan to counteact this.

B)  This doesn't seem to apply.  The Pats didn't decide to replace Welker with a different type of reciever (outside threat).  They replaced him with "Welker-lite".

C)  Probably.  The Pats seem to be fairly consistent in what they're willing to pay older players.  I just think they're wrong this time.  I don't see Welker's play declining within the next two years.  And when you consider Brady only has a limited number of years left, himself, it makes this even more befuddling.

[Lightskinsmurf]

I have seen a lot of plays where receivers get their hands on a ball through some sort of amazing effort, but don't complete the catch.  Acrobatic plays, twisting plays, diving plays, plays where they're crunched by two defenders.

Is the suggestion that if those player don't complete what would be an otherwise amazing catch, that they're somehow doing something wrong?  Is a receiver who isn't talented enough to get his hands on a ball somehow better than the receiver who makes a play on a poor pass, but who ultimately doesn't make the completion?

As Snakehead said above, that binary argument lacks any sort of context or realism.

Well, for what it's worth, Welker lead the NFL in dropped passes last season, and the second guy wasn't even close. Make of this what you will.

I'm curious what constitutes a "drop".  If they count that incompletion in the Super Bowl as one, then it's a meaningless statistic.

Lol oh man, Sometimes I wonder if we're looking at the same play. There's no way that catch was anywhere near as tough as you're desperately trying to make it out to be. It would have been a good catch but a catch he SHOULD have made.

As someone else said, that's what makes great players great. They catch balls that are right in their hands with no defender near them in the superbowl. Not make excuses because the ball wasn't perfectly thrown..

[kozlodoev]

A)  Even if it did make the Pats "too easy to gameplan", the correct solution isn't geting rid of the player, the correct solution is changing your own gameplan to counteact this.

Maybe, but Brady will throw where Brady wants to throw. And when he has Amendola instead of Welker in the slot, he may be less inclined to go there. As great as TB12 is, there is clear favoritism in where he delivers the ball.

[Lightskinsmurf]

I guess the best way to settle the debate about the dropped pass in the SB, and who's fault it was, is to say this; it was what was supposed to happen.

"Supposed to happen", in that, by the pass going incomplete, and the Giants winning the Super Bowl, all was right in the world.  The good guys won, the bad guys lost.  It was meant to happen.  So, blame it on the "football gods".   

Oh god really man? Who do you root for?