Jeff Green Pre/Post All Star Break

[Snakehead]

A few of the guys on that list come as a real suprise to me:

9 - Stephen Jackson
13 - Kyle Lowry
15 - Blake Griffin

I always saw those guys as scorers, never really saw them as defensive players.

Big shout out to my man Marquis!  He always did a great job for us defensively, and even to this day I still believe we really miss his presence sometimes.

I regard Lowry as an excellent defender, but Jackson and Griffin surprise me.  I knew Griffin had been getting a bit better, but I'm surprised by how high he's ranked.

I'm also surprised that Hansborough ranks as high as he does.

I just don't trust synergy numbers for individual defense.

Ray Allen having better numbers than Durant/LBJ last year when I looked at everything except post ups. This set off severe alarm bells in my head about teammate interactions still weighing heavily on them.

Ouch.

If Durant's numbers were close to LeBron's that's a big issue in itself.

[Fafnir]

A few of the guys on that list come as a real suprise to me:

9 - Stephen Jackson
13 - Kyle Lowry
15 - Blake Griffin

I always saw those guys as scorers, never really saw them as defensive players.

Big shout out to my man Marquis!  He always did a great job for us defensively, and even to this day I still believe we really miss his presence sometimes.

I regard Lowry as an excellent defender, but Jackson and Griffin surprise me.  I knew Griffin had been getting a bit better, but I'm surprised by how high he's ranked.

I'm also surprised that Hansborough ranks as high as he does.

I just don't trust synergy numbers for individual defense.

Ray Allen having better numbers than Durant/LBJ last year when I looked at everything except post ups. This set off severe alarm bells in my head about teammate interactions still weighing heavily on them.

Ouch.

If Durant's numbers were close to LeBron's that's a big issue in itself.

Durant's become a pretty good defender.

[Roy H.]

A few of the guys on that list come as a real suprise to me:

9 - Stephen Jackson
13 - Kyle Lowry
15 - Blake Griffin

I always saw those guys as scorers, never really saw them as defensive players.

Big shout out to my man Marquis!  He always did a great job for us defensively, and even to this day I still believe we really miss his presence sometimes.

I regard Lowry as an excellent defender, but Jackson and Griffin surprise me.  I knew Griffin had been getting a bit better, but I'm surprised by how high he's ranked.

I'm also surprised that Hansborough ranks as high as he does.

I just don't trust synergy numbers for individual defense.

Ray Allen having better numbers than Durant/LBJ last year when I looked at everything except post ups. This set off severe alarm bells in my head about teammate interactions still weighing heavily on them.

Yeah, Synergy controls for some teammate interactions -- i.e., not punishing a player for a teammate's defensive screw-up -- but it's never going to be perfect. 

If Jason Terry gets beat but KG comes over and defends the shot, Terry's mistake isn't held against him.  Meanwhile, if Kyrie Irving gets beat and Tyler Zeller allows a layup, that counts against Irving.  The exact same scenario, but Terry's better interior defense leaves him with a better PPP-allowed ranking.

[Snakehead]

A few of the guys on that list come as a real suprise to me:

9 - Stephen Jackson
13 - Kyle Lowry
15 - Blake Griffin

I always saw those guys as scorers, never really saw them as defensive players.

Big shout out to my man Marquis!  He always did a great job for us defensively, and even to this day I still believe we really miss his presence sometimes.

I regard Lowry as an excellent defender, but Jackson and Griffin surprise me.  I knew Griffin had been getting a bit better, but I'm surprised by how high he's ranked.

I'm also surprised that Hansborough ranks as high as he does.

I just don't trust synergy numbers for individual defense.

Ray Allen having better numbers than Durant/LBJ last year when I looked at everything except post ups. This set off severe alarm bells in my head about teammate interactions still weighing heavily on them.

Ouch.

If Durant's numbers were close to LeBron's that's a big issue in itself.

Durant's become a pretty good defender.

I'm not saying he's bad but he's no LeBron James.

[BudweiserCeltic]

A few of the guys on that list come as a real suprise to me:

9 - Stephen Jackson
13 - Kyle Lowry
15 - Blake Griffin

I always saw those guys as scorers, never really saw them as defensive players.

Big shout out to my man Marquis!  He always did a great job for us defensively, and even to this day I still believe we really miss his presence sometimes.

I regard Lowry as an excellent defender, but Jackson and Griffin surprise me.  I knew Griffin had been getting a bit better, but I'm surprised by how high he's ranked.

I'm also surprised that Hansborough ranks as high as he does.

I just don't trust synergy numbers for individual defense.

Ray Allen having better numbers than Durant/LBJ last year when I looked at everything except post ups. This set off severe alarm bells in my head about teammate interactions still weighing heavily on them.

Does the opponent points per possession above factor in when a defender gets beat, help defense from our bigs is forced to step up, leaving their big man assignment open?

If not, then don't see much use for this measure, particularly for PGs. Rondo and Terry were a big problem in the scenario above for much of the first 2 or 3 months.

[wahz]

Rebounds are a lost cause, or 'it is what it is'. But the scoring numbers are so encouraging. 16 pts, 4.5 rebounds, 48+% shooting, 35% from range in 30 minutes. That's the production Id call ideal.

He blocks out, and let's other guys get the ball. He tips the rebounds over to his teammates. I feel like this stat won't ever accurately reflect how he plays around the boards. Perhaps an advanced stat with how the team rebounds with him in the game vs. not in. I suspect there isn't a rebounding drop off with him in.

[BballTim]

A few of the guys on that list come as a real suprise to me:

9 - Stephen Jackson
13 - Kyle Lowry
15 - Blake Griffin

I always saw those guys as scorers, never really saw them as defensive players.

Big shout out to my man Marquis!  He always did a great job for us defensively, and even to this day I still believe we really miss his presence sometimes.

I regard Lowry as an excellent defender, but Jackson and Griffin surprise me.  I knew Griffin had been getting a bit better, but I'm surprised by how high he's ranked.

I'm also surprised that Hansborough ranks as high as he does.

I just don't trust synergy numbers for individual defense.

Ray Allen having better numbers than Durant/LBJ last year when I looked at everything except post ups. This set off severe alarm bells in my head about teammate interactions still weighing heavily on them.

Does the opponent points per possession above factor in when a defender gets beat, help defense from our bigs is forced to step up, leaving their big man assignment open?

If not, then don't see much use for this measure, particularly for PGs. Rondo and Terry were a big problem in the scenario above for much of the first 2 or 3 months.

  The bigger issue for the first 2-3 months was missed rotations. If a big helps out on a drive someone else should slide over and help on the player that's open. That wasn't happening at all.

[Evantime34]

Rebounds are a lost cause, or 'it is what it is'. But the scoring numbers are so encouraging. 16 pts, 4.5 rebounds, 48+% shooting, 35% from range in 30 minutes. That's the production Id call ideal.

He blocks out, and let's other guys get the ball. He tips the rebounds over to his teammates. I feel like this stat won't ever accurately reflect how he plays around the boards. Perhaps an advanced stat with how the team rebounds with him in the game vs. not in. I suspect there isn't a rebounding drop off with him in.

I think him blitzing on pick and rolls, along with often guarding against corner 3's is a reason Green and (to a lesser extent) Bass might not get as many rebounding opportunities as the average pf.

[kozlodoev]

Along with contributing offensively at a consistent and efficient level, his defense has been truly stellar, beyond my wildest dreams.  I had just hoped that he would in time become an average defender and not get lost or fail to complete his responsibilities in the team defense too often.  More than being average, his defense has been All-NBA caliber against perimeter players of all sizes, including defending Curry extremely well a few games ago.  I really like watching this version of Green play.

Agreed. I knew his defense was improving, but I was pretty surprised when I found out he was 18th in the league in opponent points per possession.

And according to Synergy, the Celtics have four of the top 20 defenders in the NBA this season:
https://twitter.com/ESPNForsberg/status/308646138255396864/photo/1

The fact that Marquis Daniels is topping this chart tells me we should take it with a grain of salt.

Also, this chart is highly dependent on who you're matched up against (i.e. biased against players that draw the toughest defensive assignment each night, i.e. the Ron Artests and Tony Allens of the NBA).

A better way to slice is to look at how the PPP of the "basket" of players defended compares at how they do against the rest of the league (i.e. if the players you've defended score less PPP against you than against the rest of the league, you're probably a decent defender).

[ItStaysYang]

I'm trusting him more and more each game. I'm still cautiously waiting for him to go back to having no shows and disappearing again.

So you're waiting for him to fail again before you can have a positive outlook on him?

Hahaha seriously. "I'm still cautiously waiting for him to go back to having no shows and disappearing again" - how cool are you?

[BballTim]

Along with contributing offensively at a consistent and efficient level, his defense has been truly stellar, beyond my wildest dreams.  I had just hoped that he would in time become an average defender and not get lost or fail to complete his responsibilities in the team defense too often.  More than being average, his defense has been All-NBA caliber against perimeter players of all sizes, including defending Curry extremely well a few games ago.  I really like watching this version of Green play.

Agreed. I knew his defense was improving, but I was pretty surprised when I found out he was 18th in the league in opponent points per possession.

And according to Synergy, the Celtics have four of the top 20 defenders in the NBA this season:
https://twitter.com/ESPNForsberg/status/308646138255396864/photo/1

The fact that Marquis Daniels is topping this chart tells me we should take it with a grain of salt.

Also, this chart is highly dependent on who you're matched up against (i.e. biased against players that draw the toughest defensive assignment each night, i.e. the Ron Artests and Tony Allens of the NBA).

A better way to slice is to look at how the PPP of the "basket" of players defended compares at how they do against the rest of the league (i.e. if the players you've defended score less PPP against you than against the rest of the league, you're probably a decent defender).

  Unfortunately I think fans like us (or at least me) are a long way from having access to numbers like that.

[LB3533]

You can play awesome D and the offensive opponent can still score.

Hats off.

Stats don't weigh that in.