Courtney Lee the Joe Johnson stopper

[BudweiserCeltic]

What I'm saying is that Joe Johnson just isn't THAT dominant offensively.  He's good, but he's not elite.  Johnson shot 37% against us in the playoffs last season when he primarilly being defended by Ray Allen (with bone spurs) and Paul Pierce (with a bad MCL).

Allen and Pierce also defended Wade and Lebron in the Miami series, and those guys shot 46% and 50% from the field respectively.

Boston's defense was very good against Brooklyn the other night, but when it comes to this matchup I think it was partly Lee's solid defense, and partly Joe Johnson struggling.

Also the averages represent pretty well.  Even if you take the Boston game out of the equation, Joe's numbers are still not that spectacular by preseason standards:

15.0 Pts (51% FG, 41% 3PT), 1.8 Reb, 3.6 Ass, 1.7 Stl, 2.0 TO

As opposed to the following if you DO include that game:

15.2 Pts (45% FG, 41% 3PT), 3.2 Ass, 2.4 Reb, 1.6 Stl, 1.9 TO

Include the Boston game or not, we still have 8 guys on our roster who have produced on par with JJ so far in the preseason.  I'm not buying the idea that Lee did something extra special against JJ that other guys haven't done.  I think he played good defense against JJ, but not the type of intense, suffocating D that we see from Bradley.

I think Lee did a solid job on Joe, but I think he also got some decent looks that he just didn't hit.

I still like the D I've seen from Lee though the last 3-4 games.  He's done a nice job and will fit in great on this team

See, much of what you're saying is true, I just don't agree with the methods used in your assessment. For example, the "it's preseason, X player should be destroying teams" just doesn't jive with me. Either a player is playing good or he isn't. And regardless of the venue, 51% FG% is very good through a stretch of games against NBA players, particularly from a wing.

What I'm saying is that Joe Johnson is shooting the ball well right now, that we held him to 22 percentage points lower than the rest of his opponents is a significant gap, and explaining it away with making it seem like Johnson is some sort of scrub (exaggeration I know) just doesn't fit what is going on currently.

Could it be that Johnson had a bad day? Sure, but the "diminishing" aspect of the argument is lost when you consider his performance in the games that surrounded it.

But more importantly, is the fact that the whole Nets team struggled in a game in which our defensive pressure was very evident.

That we have 8 people in our roster playing at this level should tell you how potentially special of a team we may have, it shouldn't take away of how Johnson is playing this season (so far).

The only real argument I've said is that there's no evidence of Johnson's game diminishing from what has been seen this season.

If you guys are interested in comparing playoff performances, etc., etc. then have at it. I'm really not interested in those sorts of speculations. I'd like to point out though that we've held much better superstars than Johnson during various playoff series in check. What I do know is that the Celtics had a very good defensive game, and that we indeed played Johnson well.

[crimson_stallion]

I agree that this team is special

I do think though that is is fair to expect great players to dominate more in the preseason then they do in the regular season. 

For example, in the regular season I don't expect:

* Terry to shoot > 60% from three
* Sullinger to shoot 55% from the field
* Bass to shoot > 66% from the field
* Pierce to average 34 points per 48 minutes

I believe that all of these numbers are skewed because those guys are often playing against 3rd tier and even D-league calibre players, rather than playing against 1sst and 2nd tier guys. 

Secondly because it's preseason and most teams do not play with the same defensive intensity when they know the game doesn't have any tangible meaning.

Thirdly because many teams have new faces and are still trying to get their head around defensive assignments, etc.

Still I absolutely do agree that we played some very nice defense against Brooklyn, and I think the added youth on our roster has given us newfound quickenss and I can see us rotating with Miami-like quickness once everyone buys in to the system.

Also I feel like Sullinger has been gradually improving on defense, and I really feel like he's going to be decent (if not good) by the time we are a couple of months into the season

[BudweiserCeltic]

I agree that this team is special

I do think though that is is fair to expect great players to dominate more in the preseason then they do in the regular season. 

For example, in the regular season I don't expect:

* Terry to shoot > 60% from three
* Sullinger to shoot 55% from the field
* Bass to shoot > 66% from the field
* Pierce to average 34 points per 48 minutes

I believe that all of these numbers are skewed because those guys are often playing against 3rd tier and even D-league calibre players, rather than playing against 1sst and 2nd tier guys. 

Secondly because it's preseason and most teams do not play with the same defensive intensity when they know the game doesn't have any tangible meaning.

Thirdly because many teams have new faces and are still trying to get their head around defensive assignments, etc.

Still I absolutely do agree that we played some very nice defense against Brooklyn, and I think the added youth on our roster has given us newfound quickenss and I can see us rotating with Miami-like quickness once everyone buys in to the system.

Also I feel like Sullinger has been gradually improving on defense, and I really feel like he's going to be decent (if not good) by the time we are a couple of months into the season

The problem finding arbitrary percentages to apply in the pre-season of what constitutes good shooting ignores that the competition is not the only component that affect performance.

Also, I don't agree with the "often playing against 3rd tier" aspect of it. At least not for the starters. Starters more often than not play against other starters, heighten by the fact that they play less minutes than they would see during the regular season, so that limits the time spent playing against these 3rd tier players.

As for defense, other than defensive oriented teams, they usually suck anyways

Philly played good defense on us if not mistaken, a bit of a blur that game now.

But our team is an odd specimen right now, and it'll be tough to stop us.

Miami's perimeter offense will be very dangerous this year. I'm more worried about Mike Miller being healthy than anyone else not named LeBron and Wade.

I think we stop their 3-point game, and have someone manning the middle to help on penetration, and Miami will be restrained. And no turnovers.

[fitzhickey]

I agree that this team is special

I do think though that is is fair to expect great players to dominate more in the preseason then they do in the regular season. 

For example, in the regular season I don't expect:

* Terry to shoot > 60% from three
* Sullinger to shoot 55% from the field
* Bass to shoot > 66% from the field
* Pierce to average 34 points per 48 minutes

I believe that all of these numbers are skewed because those guys are often playing against 3rd tier and even D-league calibre players, rather than playing against 1sst and 2nd tier guys. 

Secondly because it's preseason and most teams do not play with the same defensive intensity when they know the game doesn't have any tangible meaning.

Thirdly because many teams have new faces and are still trying to get their head around defensive assignments, etc.

Still I absolutely do agree that we played some very nice defense against Brooklyn, and I think the added youth on our roster has given us newfound quickenss and I can see us rotating with Miami-like quickness once everyone buys in to the system.

Also I feel like Sullinger has been gradually improving on defense, and I really feel like he's going to be decent (if not good) by the time we are a couple of months into the season

If pierce averaged that we would have #18 in he bag

[Kwhit10]

While JJ is not some elite scorer in my opinion, he does have the size against a lot of SGs in the league which is to his advantage.  Lee has the size to take that away which I why I think he is pretty effective playing opposite him.

[cman88]

I agree that this team is special

I do think though that is is fair to expect great players to dominate more in the preseason then they do in the regular season. 

For example, in the regular season I don't expect:

* Terry to shoot > 60% from three
* Sullinger to shoot 55% from the field
* Bass to shoot > 66% from the field
* Pierce to average 34 points per 48 minutes

I believe that all of these numbers are skewed because those guys are often playing against 3rd tier and even D-league calibre players, rather than playing against 1sst and 2nd tier guys. 

Secondly because it's preseason and most teams do not play with the same defensive intensity when they know the game doesn't have any tangible meaning.

Thirdly because many teams have new faces and are still trying to get their head around defensive assignments, etc.

Still I absolutely do agree that we played some very nice defense against Brooklyn, and I think the added youth on our roster has given us newfound quickenss and I can see us rotating with Miami-like quickness once everyone buys in to the system.

Also I feel like Sullinger has been gradually improving on defense, and I really feel like he's going to be decent (if not good) by the time we are a couple of months into the season

I could see Sullinger shooting 55% considering he operates alot in the paint with layups