Ray's ankle may be an issue this season

[Interceptor]

He was a free agent he made the decision he felt was best for him. The Celtics were phasing him out and he didnt want to continue. Whats the problem again? Just as the Celtic organization does whats best for the Celtics, Ray did he felt is best for himself, some Celtic fans just cant handle it.

This is some good spin, but what actually happened is that Allen came back with an insulting/unworkable contract demand. The situation was complicated by this event, as now it's no longer a matter of a free agent simply moving on.

I apologize if I gave people the wrong impression of what this thread was about.

Not your fault. This is Perk Trade v2.0, everyone has an opinion and your thread will be hijacked by it, if it goes on long enough.

[yuckabuck]

I think people may have missed something important in Ray's response to KG.  "That’s a shame,” Allen said. “I’m a good person to talk to on the phone. … I’ve been in weird trade situations the last few years. You always felt you had one foot in and one foot out, so I can’t worry about it.”

Is this the first time he has spoken definitively about why he left?  In other words, it wasn't Rondo, it wasn't KG skipping promotional opportunities, it wasn't being relegated to the bench behind Avery Bradley, it wasn't because Ray thinks the Celtics aren't a contender or that their window is closed, it wasn't for more money, it wasn't because of Doc (who tried to take the blame for putting the ball in Rondo's hands), and it wasn't because he wanted more playing time or more shots.

It was because he was tired of feeling like he wasn't completely a part of the team. One foot in and one foot out. Obviously, Pat Riley told Ray what he wanted to hear, and it didn't really matter what Danny Ainge was going to say.

I think this gets at the truth, and it shows that Ray was not disrespecting the team. He didn't feel like he was part of the team anymore, and so he bolted.

I am fine if people want to consider Ray Allen the enemy because he is with Miami, but I have heard some of the craziest things said about him which make absolutely no sense at all on some Celtics websites. I'm not calling anyone out in particular, but this really seems to be a case of Ray's loyalty not being reciprocated and so he justifiably went to the team that told him that they wanted him as part of the team.

[CelticHooligan3]

Roy really embarrassed himself in this thread. How can a moderator say those kinds of thing and then try to justify himself on top it? 

Pot-Kettle-Black is darn right. Ugly ugly stuff from someone who's supposed to know better 

I'm not too worried about it.  If you feel as if you need to defend those who root for injury and who act ignorantly, boorishly, or with vitriol -- or if you feel like you yourself act in that manner and identify with that group -- then I'm not in the slightest upset to have offended you.

As I said in my original post and in the follow up, plenty of good fans are disappointed with Ray.  Only a small subset of those fans, however, act like entitled fake thugs.  To those people, I wish they'd become Knicks fans, because we don't need classless idiots in our fanbase.

Again, I didn't call out any poster, and I didn't call out people upset by Ray leaving.  I *did* call out the amorphous group of "fans" who act "entitled, ignorant, classless, boorish" and the "outright jerks, morons, meatheads and fake tough guys".  If you feel offended on behalf of people that meet those descriptions, perhaps you need to start hanging out with a better class of people.

Again Roy, i think your missing the point. Boston is a team and city of many "classes". When you start spewing off about telling people what type of "class" of people they need to hang out with it becomes pretty divisive. Who are you to say? Why should you be the judge? Ive been suspended on this site for far less my friend and it comes off pretty hypocritical.

You continue to throw these negative labels around with a holier than thou attitude and apparently its not just my feathers that have been ruffled.
I've been chastised many times for the whole questioning of others "fanhood". Why do you get a pass? Am i "ignorant" "classless" "entitled" and "boorish"? If i dont agree with you, then i guess so..

And for the record i never wished any physical harm on "that guy". I simply voiced my opinion that he gave our organization and fanbase the bird on his way out the door. He went out of his way to stick it to us. Why shouldnt we feel the right to stick it to him when he shows up here. That full page add in the globe didnt sit to well with me and many of my friends. We may be in a lower "class" but were not nieve.

Just ask the Brits how stareing down your nose at the petty Bostonians worked out Roy. It's a good story. 

[Roy H.]

Who are you to say? Why should you be the judge?

Each individual makes their own decision regarding what level of class that they find acceptable.  Additionally, society has another level regarding what is socially acceptable, and CelticsBlog has yet another set of standards. 

I personally get disgusted by people who exhibit the behaviors I identified.  I didn't figure that deriding those who act ignorantly, vitriolically, moronically, classlessly, with a sense of false entitlement, and/or like a fake thug would offend so many posters.  Who knew we had so many folks posting from the dregs of society (and proudly, too)?

Am i "ignorant" "classless" "entitled" and "boorish"? If i dont agree with you, then i guess so..

No, it has nothing to do with agreeing with me, which has now been pointed out four times.  (As an aside, I'd point out that for somebody who has an issue with it being "PC" around here, you sure do have the "false outrage" thing down, taking offense at things that have never been said.)  It's about how somebody behaves, and I don't recall ever saying that you fit into those categories.  You quickly seemed to self-identify with those groups, but I didn't put you in them.

[FatjohnReturns]

He was a free agent he made the decision he felt was best for him. The Celtics were phasing him out and he didnt want to continue. Whats the problem again? Just as the Celtic organization does whats best for the Celtics, Ray did he felt is best for himself, some Celtic fans just cant handle it.

This is some good spin, but what actually happened is that Allen came back with an insulting/unworkable contract demand. The situation was complicated by this event, as now it's no longer a matter of a free agent simply moving on.

Not spin. If its a problem when Allen comes back with a "insulting/unworkable contract demand" why isnt a problem when Ainge trys to trade him midseason to Memphis?
The door swings both ways.

He gave his best while he was here. He choose to leave when he could. He wanted more money to stay and it wasnt worth it to the Celtics.

Stop expecting players to have a emotional attachment to to fans and the organization . Its a buisness just ask Leon Powe.

[jimmehx]

It definitely will be. It was for us and will be for them. The warm air wont cure his old age.

Don't feel to bad about saying that either. 

[Roy H.]

Stop expecting players to have a emotional attachment to to fans and the organization . Its a buisness just ask Leon Powe.

I agree, but I'd add this caveat:  I think Ray did have an emotional attachment to the franchise.  I think he was genuinely hurt that the Celtics tried to trade him repeatedly.  My guess is that his preference would have been to stay in Boston for the rest of his career, but the Celts didn't reciprocate that, both by declining to offer him an extension during the season, and by trying to trade him repeatedly.

 

[j804]

I've got to say, to see how classless some Celtics fans are, it almost makes me wish the Heat win the championship.  Every negative stereotype of bad fans there are in the league -- entitled, ignorant, classless, boorish, etc. -- has come out loud and clear during the Ray Allen saga.

We have a ton of good fans, many of whom aren't big Ray Allen fans right now.  Unfortunately, we have some fans who are pretty crappy, too, and part of me wants to see those folks end up miserable.

(Again, they're a minority of Celtics fans -- probably a small percentage -- but they sure are vocal with their vitriol.)

Arent you the one always telling everyone not to question each others "fanhood". Dishing out warnings and suspensions and basically being the PC police Roy? Calling us "classless fans" is a little hypocritical no? We're "bad fans" if we don't agree with you. And good fan's if we do?

A lot of us here have a lot of animosity for the guy and how he showed us up by going to a rival we lost to in last years playoffs. You can spin it any way you want, but he gave this team, fanbase, and organization the bird on his way out the door. He took less money. Moved from his New England roots. Took the same role. Complained and pouted about his losing the starting spot. (Even though as a leader he should realize the move benefitted the team.)

Who are you to tell me how i should feel about that? And who are you to judge anyways? You need to take some of your own advice Roy and watch your inflammatory rhetoric. Calling fans "classless", "ignorant", "entitled", and "boorish", is pretty hypocritical. You get on posters for doing that all the time bro.

I didn't label any poster, or call anybody out by name.  If you want to self-label yourself and categorize yourself as one of the minority of fans I was talking about who are "entitled, ignorant, classless, boorish", that's on you, not me.

As I said, there are plenty of good fans who don't support Ray right now.  I've got no issue with them.  It's the outright jerks, morons, meatheads and fake tough guys that I take exception to.  If you consider yourself to be in that category then frankly, I pity you.  Bro.

Pity me all you want Roy. You clearly see yourself as the bigger person. You never called out any individuals by name, but you threw all of us who don't agree with you into those catergories. I just find it highly hypocritical from a MOD who is on here regularly coming down on ppl for doing the same exact thing. That's all.

CH3 - This whole Ray Allen thing is bringing out the worst in us BOS fans.

Take it from one who has visited other blogs and chatted with other fan bases.

Besides the Perk trade and the divisiveness that caused us, THIS event here is certainly bringing out the worst in us.

We don't see it all the time, but trust me - we aren't looking good right now.

The blessing of technology is that we can now communicate with each other from anywhere in the world - as an "old-head", you couldn't have told me that THIS would be possible 15 years ago or so.

The flipside with this technology is that I'm sure OTHERS see what we type..."OTHERS" meaning potential draftees, other players from around the league, etc, etc -

KG has even mentioned that he reads the blog.

All I'm saying is this: We're bickering back and forth with each other about this thing, but man we're being disrespectful, upset, and a bit hateful towards each other and RAY ALLEN.

Whatever ppl feel about him leaving is their right, but we also have to realize that he's a human being, too - with a family, and with young kids.

To this day, I don't like Ray Allen's decision. But I respect it and probably would've bolted too - if I was under "Trade Watch" for the last two years.

PLEASE, Man - we aren't looking that good as a fanbase right now. All because some of us are downright upset that Ray Allen has attempted to secure some certainty in his future.

I wish him (and his family) the best.

wait what he hell did I just read, KG reads Celtics Blog? lol

[CelticHooligan3]

Who are you to say? Why should you be the judge?

Each individual makes their own decision regarding what level of class that they find acceptable.  Additionally, society has another level regarding what is socially acceptable, and CelticsBlog has yet another set of standards. 

I personally get disgusted by people who exhibit the behaviors I identified.  I didn't figure that deriding those who act ignorantly, vitriolically, moronically, classlessly, with a sense of false entitlement, and/or like a fake thug would offend so many posters.  Who knew we had so many folks posting from the dregs of society (and proudly, too)?

Am i "ignorant" "classless" "entitled" and "boorish"? If i dont agree with you, then i guess so..

No, it has nothing to do with agreeing with me, which has now been pointed out four times.  (As an aside, I'd point out that for somebody who has an issue with it being "PC" around here, you sure do have the "false outrage" thing down, taking offense at things that have never been said.)  It's about how somebody behaves, and I don't recall ever saying that you fit into those categories.  You quickly seemed to self-identify with those groups, but I didn't put you in them.

I think your opinion of what qualfies a person as "the dregs of society" may differ from mine Roy.

When you start thumbing your nose and making comments like, "perhaps you need to hang out with a better class of people" your the one who sounds ignorant.

And as a poster who's been suspended for divisive issues and questioning other fans "fanhood", i will ask again why there seems to be a double standard here at Celticsblog.

[Roy H.]

Who are you to say? Why should you be the judge?

Each individual makes their own decision regarding what level of class that they find acceptable.  Additionally, society has another level regarding what is socially acceptable, and CelticsBlog has yet another set of standards. 

I personally get disgusted by people who exhibit the behaviors I identified.  I didn't figure that deriding those who act ignorantly, vitriolically, moronically, classlessly, with a sense of false entitlement, and/or like a fake thug would offend so many posters.  Who knew we had so many folks posting from the dregs of society (and proudly, too)?

Am i "ignorant" "classless" "entitled" and "boorish"? If i dont agree with you, then i guess so..

No, it has nothing to do with agreeing with me, which has now been pointed out four times.  (As an aside, I'd point out that for somebody who has an issue with it being "PC" around here, you sure do have the "false outrage" thing down, taking offense at things that have never been said.)  It's about how somebody behaves, and I don't recall ever saying that you fit into those categories.  You quickly seemed to self-identify with those groups, but I didn't put you in them.

I think your opinion of what qualfies a person as "the dregs of society" may differ from mine Roy.

When you start thumbing your nose and making comments like, "perhaps you need to hang out with a better class of people" your the one who sounds ignorant.

And as a poster who's been suspended for divisive issues and questioning other fans "fanhood", i will ask again why there seems to be a double standard here at Celticsblog.

Fair enough.  If you feel like surrounding yourself with the ignorant, boorish, classless, falsely entitled, outright jerks, morons, meatheads and fake tough guys, you're certainly allowed to.  Have fun with that.

[GreenFaith1819]

I've got to say, to see how classless some Celtics fans are, it almost makes me wish the Heat win the championship.  Every negative stereotype of bad fans there are in the league -- entitled, ignorant, classless, boorish, etc. -- has come out loud and clear during the Ray Allen saga.

We have a ton of good fans, many of whom aren't big Ray Allen fans right now.  Unfortunately, we have some fans who are pretty crappy, too, and part of me wants to see those folks end up miserable.

(Again, they're a minority of Celtics fans -- probably a small percentage -- but they sure are vocal with their vitriol.)

Arent you the one always telling everyone not to question each others "fanhood". Dishing out warnings and suspensions and basically being the PC police Roy? Calling us "classless fans" is a little hypocritical no? We're "bad fans" if we don't agree with you. And good fan's if we do?

A lot of us here have a lot of animosity for the guy and how he showed us up by going to a rival we lost to in last years playoffs. You can spin it any way you want, but he gave this team, fanbase, and organization the bird on his way out the door. He took less money. Moved from his New England roots. Took the same role. Complained and pouted about his losing the starting spot. (Even though as a leader he should realize the move benefitted the team.)

Who are you to tell me how i should feel about that? And who are you to judge anyways? You need to take some of your own advice Roy and watch your inflammatory rhetoric. Calling fans "classless", "ignorant", "entitled", and "boorish", is pretty hypocritical. You get on posters for doing that all the time bro.

I didn't label any poster, or call anybody out by name.  If you want to self-label yourself and categorize yourself as one of the minority of fans I was talking about who are "entitled, ignorant, classless, boorish", that's on you, not me.

As I said, there are plenty of good fans who don't support Ray right now.  I've got no issue with them.  It's the outright jerks, morons, meatheads and fake tough guys that I take exception to.  If you consider yourself to be in that category then frankly, I pity you.  Bro.

Pity me all you want Roy. You clearly see yourself as the bigger person. You never called out any individuals by name, but you threw all of us who don't agree with you into those catergories. I just find it highly hypocritical from a MOD who is on here regularly coming down on ppl for doing the same exact thing. That's all.

CH3 - This whole Ray Allen thing is bringing out the worst in us BOS fans.

Take it from one who has visited other blogs and chatted with other fan bases.

Besides the Perk trade and the divisiveness that caused us, THIS event here is certainly bringing out the worst in us.

We don't see it all the time, but trust me - we aren't looking good right now.

The blessing of technology is that we can now communicate with each other from anywhere in the world - as an "old-head", you couldn't have told me that THIS would be possible 15 years ago or so.

The flipside with this technology is that I'm sure OTHERS see what we type..."OTHERS" meaning potential draftees, other players from around the league, etc, etc -

KG has even mentioned that he reads the blog.

All I'm saying is this: We're bickering back and forth with each other about this thing, but man we're being disrespectful, upset, and a bit hateful towards each other and RAY ALLEN.

Whatever ppl feel about him leaving is their right, but we also have to realize that he's a human being, too - with a family, and with young kids.

To this day, I don't like Ray Allen's decision. But I respect it and probably would've bolted too - if I was under "Trade Watch" for the last two years.

PLEASE, Man - we aren't looking that good as a fanbase right now. All because some of us are downright upset that Ray Allen has attempted to secure some certainty in his future.

I wish him (and his family) the best.

wait what he hell did I just read, KG reads Celtics Blog? lol

I thought it was funny, too.

I remember him making a reference to CelticsBlog during the playoffs - may have been the ATL series.

Of course he was bouncing off the walls during that time, too - because of the Hawks Co-owner comments about the Celtics Age.

[GreenFaith1819]

PLEASE stop with some of these posts on here - celebrating Ray's injury?

Seriously?

After Feb 19, 2009 and June 15, 2010 - I don't think we should be celebrating ANYONE's injuries....

Perk and KG going down probably cost BOS AT LEAST two rings.

Sorry but some of us aren't that "nice" and shouldn't be.  Nobody here is wishing him a serious injury but anything to make this guy realize he left a knife in our backs.  I really hope his run on the Heat is one big FAIL.  Call me heartless but that's the way it is

But it makes us look petty when we stoop to the level of wishing bad on another player - especially regarding his health.

Maybe we are petty.

I like Ray Allen a lot. Yet, I was happy to hear the ankle issue news. The reality is that Ray is old. His body might not recover from some ailments. I want to beat the Heat and Ray being over the hill would help that. It would also make losing him a great move for us.

I think there is a difference between hoping someone gets injured and feeling relief over hearing someone will continue to have a nagging injury in their old age. I am not one for pretending that we don't react that way, especially when these players make the choice to sacrifice their bodies to play longer. Similarly, I don't feel sorry when extreme sports lovers lose limbs or die while risking their lives for a rush.

I still like Ray but I will be happy to see him ineffective all season due to failing ankles. Let's be real about this. We aren't talking about someone who won't be able to walk normal for the rest of his life. We are just talking about someone whose ankles can't handle the intense strain of professional basketball. It might be no worse in the long run than the aches some of us have in our joints from playing basketball for free.

You DO realize that we as BOS fans are depending upon KG and Paul Pierce, both of whom are OLD, too - right?

We lose either of them, and Rajon Rondo can average a triple double this season and we aren't getting out of the 1st round.

2008-09 all over again.

  We *did* get out of the first round in 2009. That's with a bigs rotation of Perk, Baby and Scal and all of the backup 1-2-3 minutes going to House and Marbury. If Powe hadn't hurt his knee we'd have probably gone to the conference final.

Thanks for the correction - memory failed me a bit, there.

But even with the standards we've come to expect from BOS lately, even getting to "Just" the conference finals would've eventually been considered a bust, unfortunately.

This is Title Town.

[Interceptor]

Not spin. If its a problem when Allen comes back with a "insulting/unworkable contract demand" why isnt a problem when Ainge trys to trade him midseason to Memphis?
The door swings both ways.

Why can't both things be true? Ainge has nothing to do with it, he's said before that anyone can be traded. Paul Pierce has been on the trading block before, so has Rondo. They appear to have gotten over it. Pierce even jokes about it.

[GreenFaith1819]

PLEASE stop with some of these posts on here - celebrating Ray's injury?

Seriously?

After Feb 19, 2009 and June 15, 2010 - I don't think we should be celebrating ANYONE's injuries....

Perk and KG going down probably cost BOS AT LEAST two rings.

Sorry but some of us aren't that "nice" and shouldn't be.  Nobody here is wishing him a serious injury but anything to make this guy realize he left a knife in our backs.  I really hope his run on the Heat is one big FAIL.  Call me heartless but that's the way it is

But it makes us look petty when we stoop to the level of wishing bad on another player - especially regarding his health.

Maybe we are petty.

I like Ray Allen a lot. Yet, I was happy to hear the ankle issue news. The reality is that Ray is old. His body might not recover from some ailments. I want to beat the Heat and Ray being over the hill would help that. It would also make losing him a great move for us.

I think there is a difference between hoping someone gets injured and feeling relief over hearing someone will continue to have a nagging injury in their old age. I am not one for pretending that we don't react that way, especially when these players make the choice to sacrifice their bodies to play longer. Similarly, I don't feel sorry when extreme sports lovers lose limbs or die while risking their lives for a rush.

I still like Ray but I will be happy to see him ineffective all season due to failing ankles. Let's be real about this. We aren't talking about someone who won't be able to walk normal for the rest of his life. We are just talking about someone whose ankles can't handle the intense strain of professional basketball. It might be no worse in the long run than the aches some of us have in our joints from playing basketball for free.

You DO realize that we as BOS fans are depending upon KG and Paul Pierce, both of whom are OLD, too - right?

Why wouldn't I realize that? What is your point? Obviously, I want players on my team to be at peak performance levels. I don't get how this is supposed to relate to my point.

The reality is actually worse than I mentioned. A lot of these players will end up with serious arthritis in joints. It is expected of a long NBA career. It is part of the costs of doing what you enjoy and making millions. Ray and KG are at the point where they are choosing pain over retirement. Non-Celtics fans likely hope that KG's physical condition makes him ineffective at playing NBA basketball. Many Celtics fans are hoping that Ray's age and condition make him ineffective. This is quite different from hoping a second year player tears his ACL or hoping that DRose doesn't heal properly (a la Grant Hill, who lost years of his career due to complications from injuries that should not have been so dire).

Even as someone who is hoping that Ray is washed up physically now that he is on the Heat, I don't want to see him end like Dikembe did, which is always possible when guy decide to battle the undefeated Father Time.

Well, I see your point, guava, but for me I just stop short of hoping to see Ray Allen, or anyone for that matter - becoming physically unable to perform.

It just doesn't sound good, to me.

BOS has had its fair(?) share of injuries, maladies, etc - over the last few yrs so for me I just draw the line right there.

BOS, out of perhaps any "contender" out there - needs to have SO MANY things happen for us to win the title this year or next. Good health from KG, Rondo and Paul is essential to that contender status.

KG and Paul, because of their age - perhaps have a much shorter "window" than most.

Danny's done an OUTSTANDING job shoring up our "new" Big Three, but I still consider us having an outside shot at winning it all.

In BOS, though - I realize that all you often need is that "Outside Shot", thankfully. Past history (1969), has proven that to me.

[GreenFaith1819]

WOW - you REALLY think we can win without Paul Pierce?

I'm one of the most optimistic fans on here - possibly to the point of ridicule, admittedly - and even I don't believe we can win anything without Paul Pierce.

Or KG, for that matter.

We're cooked without KG, that I would agree. I think that Jeff Green can fake Pierce well enough for us to get by without him, though. We're not going to depend on PP to score for us this year like in years past. Rondo showed us that this past year in the playoffs when PP fouled out. We have JET, too.

It will be nice having a bench.

Wow - TP for your optimism about Jeff Green. I love the guy too, and I'm glad that he's finally healthy, but for him to "fake" Paul Pierce, like you said - means (IMO) that he will have to be more aggressive, average 10-12 pts off the bench, 4-5 rebs, 3-4 assists, perhaps 0.6 blocks and roughly a steal.

Plus, I'd be happy with about 45% FG% and 36-38% from deep.

If Jeff Green can do THAT, then IMO he could fake Paul Pierce.

But even with that, I'd STILL be hard-pressed to see us getting far without Paul Pierce. That's just me.

I mean - this is The Truth we're talking about. Jeff Green will REALLY have to step up his game....I am optimistic that he CAN do it.

But WILL he?

He has the opportunity, I think.

EDIT: Jeff Green would also have to become a defensive pest, too - using that length and athleticism to bother our opponents.