Ray's ankle may be an issue this season

[GreenFaith1819]

I've got to say, to see how classless some Celtics fans are, it almost makes me wish the Heat win the championship.  Every negative stereotype of bad fans there are in the league -- entitled, ignorant, classless, boorish, etc. -- has come out loud and clear during the Ray Allen saga.

We have a ton of good fans, many of whom aren't big Ray Allen fans right now.  Unfortunately, we have some fans who are pretty crappy, too, and part of me wants to see those folks end up miserable.

(Again, they're a minority of Celtics fans -- probably a small percentage -- but they sure are vocal with their vitriol.)

Arent you the one always telling everyone not to question each others "fanhood". Dishing out warnings and suspensions and basically being the PC police Roy? Calling us "classless fans" is a little hypocritical no? We're "bad fans" if we don't agree with you. And good fan's if we do?

A lot of us here have a lot of animosity for the guy and how he showed us up by going to a rival we lost to in last years playoffs. You can spin it any way you want, but he gave this team, fanbase, and organization the bird on his way out the door. He took less money. Moved from his New England roots. Took the same role. Complained and pouted about his losing the starting spot. (Even though as a leader he should realize the move benefitted the team.)

Who are you to tell me how i should feel about that? And who are you to judge anyways? You need to take some of your own advice Roy and watch your inflammatory rhetoric. Calling fans "classless", "ignorant", "entitled", and "boorish", is pretty hypocritical. You get on posters for doing that all the time bro.

I didn't label any poster, or call anybody out by name.  If you want to self-label yourself and categorize yourself as one of the minority of fans I was talking about who are "entitled, ignorant, classless, boorish", that's on you, not me.

As I said, there are plenty of good fans who don't support Ray right now.  I've got no issue with them.  It's the outright jerks, morons, meatheads and fake tough guys that I take exception to.  If you consider yourself to be in that category then frankly, I pity you.  Bro.

Pity me all you want Roy. You clearly see yourself as the bigger person. You never called out any individuals by name, but you threw all of us who don't agree with you into those catergories. I just find it highly hypocritical from a MOD who is on here regularly coming down on ppl for doing the same exact thing. That's all.

CH3 - This whole Ray Allen thing is bringing out the worst in us BOS fans.

Take it from one who has visited other blogs and chatted with other fan bases.

Besides the Perk trade and the divisiveness that caused us, THIS event here is certainly bringing out the worst in us.

We don't see it all the time, but trust me - we aren't looking good right now.

The blessing of technology is that we can now communicate with each other from anywhere in the world - as an "old-head", you couldn't have told me that THIS would be possible 15 years ago or so.

The flipside with this technology is that I'm sure OTHERS see what we type..."OTHERS" meaning potential draftees, other players from around the league, etc, etc -

KG has even mentioned that he reads the blog.

All I'm saying is this: We're bickering back and forth with each other about this thing, but man we're being disrespectful, upset, and a bit hateful towards each other and RAY ALLEN.

Whatever ppl feel about him leaving is their right, but we also have to realize that he's a human being, too - with a family, and with young kids.

To this day, I don't like Ray Allen's decision. But I respect it and probably would've bolted too - if I was under "Trade Watch" for the last two years.

PLEASE, Man - we aren't looking that good as a fanbase right now. All because some of us are downright upset that Ray Allen has attempted to secure some certainty in his future.

I wish him (and his family) the best.

[esel1000]

He left to pursue a better opportunity.

Let's go through this again.

1.  If Ray had left for a team paying him more money, no one would have been thrilled with it but I think the majority of Celtics fans would understand.

2.  If Ray had left for a team where he was going to play a larger role than in Boston, no one would have been thrilled with it but I think the vast majority of Celtics fans would understand.

3.  Ray actually left for less money to go to a team where there's not only less of a role for him than in Boston but a team that has beaten Boston the last two seasons and remains its biggest obstacle to winning another title.

4.  Let me repeat that.  Boston was willing to pay Ray MORE money and unless you think Doc was going to completely change his coaching style in Boston, Ray was still going to play ALL the time.  Even with Avery Bradley last year, Ray averaged 34 minutes a game during the regular season.  Does that sound like a guy who has to worry about being "eased out" of the rotation?  Compare that to playing in Miami behind Wade at the 2, Chalmers at point and with Miller, Battier, Lewis and Jones all competing with Ray for the same role on the team.

Given those 4 things, Celtics fans are totally, utterly and entirely entitled to be ticked off at Ray.  Yes, no one should be wishing an injury on him.  However, this serf-like attitude that we're all just supposed to tug our forelocks and say "Good day, milord" at Ray's actions is ridiculous.

Mike

tp

[Chris]

Given those 4 things, Celtics fans are totally, utterly and entirely entitled to be ticked off at Ray.  Yes, no one should be wishing an injury on him.  However, this serf-like attitude that we're all just supposed to tug our forelocks and say "Good day, milord" at Ray's actions is ridiculous.

OK, I agree completely with the first sentence.  C's fans are certainly entitled to be ticked off at Ray. 

What I don't agree with is this characterization that people who think it is appropriate to thank Ray for his time with his team, and who don't really have that much of an issue with how he left, as "serfs" bowing to their "lord".

And from a personal standpoint, I am perfectly fine with Ray leaving, because I think it was time for him to leave.  They needed to get younger, and that was the best position for it.  And once he is no longer in green, I just don't care about him.  But I would still thank him for his time in green. 

[Clench123]

PLEASE stop with some of these posts on here - celebrating Ray's injury?

Seriously?

After Feb 19, 2009 and June 15, 2010 - I don't think we should be celebrating ANYONE's injuries....

Perk and KG going down probably cost BOS AT LEAST two rings.

Sorry but some of us aren't that "nice" and shouldn't be.  Nobody here is wishing him a serious injury but anything to make this guy realize he left a knife in our backs.  I really hope his run on the Heat is one big FAIL.  Call me heartless but that's the way it is

How can we forget all that he has done to make the Celtics relevant again? Seems like we've completely neglected the fact that Ray helped us raise 18, hit countless clutch baskets, and took a back seat for the development of Avery Bradley. The man did all he could for the Celtics and unfortunately we couldn't digress from developing Bradley and we brought in Jet. Ray had to go.

I don't want this to turn into a defending Ray's decision post. But I am just shocked at how people can hold a grudge against a player that has contributed so much to our team's success in the past 5 years, and extend it to the degree of wishing him bad health. He left to pursue a better opportunity. Does the single act of leaving for the Heat completely negate all the good he has done?

Please, do not rip on Ray anymore, because doing so makes us Celtics fans look like spoiled brats.

That disqualified everything you said.  He didn't leave for a better opportunity.  We offered him the better opportunity.  He left for a worse opportunity than the one we offered him.  He did it because of his ego.  He did it because of Ray Allen.  He did it to stick it to us.  He did it because he couldn't accept that he's way past his prime. 

And please, let's quit these "he helped us raise banner 17" stuff.  You guys are acting like he did it all by himself.  As a matter of fact, his contribution that year was little.  So stop it.  KG, Pierce, Rondo, Perkins, and others had has much impact on bringing the championship home if not more.  It's time to let it go.  This was a TEAM effort...something a lot of Ray Allen's apologist is forgetting.  Ray Allen didn't bring the championship, the WHOLE TEAM did it.  And when it was time for us to stick together as a TEAM again, the guy turned his back on the franchize that did as much for him as he did for it.  So stop this he brought us championship stuff.  It's crock of nonsense

[Interceptor]

I didn't label any poster, or call anybody out by name.

Seems like a distinction without a difference to me. Why should it suddenly not matter if the statement is weasel-worded? It's still inflammatory, isn't it?

Anyway, I find your reaction a little bit ironic. While I agree that people wishing harm on Judas are going too far, your "end up miserable" wish is basically what the jilted Ray fans project at him. I'd think that this would give you some sympathy for where people are coming from, even if they are out of line, because it's fundamentally the same emotion. You're frustrated at Ray haters and want him to rub it in their faces, Ray haters are frustrated at Ray and want every corner three to hit the side of the backboard.

The whole Allen situation is all about the dog that didn't bark. There are basically four kinds of people here:

1) Those that are thankful to Allen for a championship, and five good years on the team.
2) Those who consider him a traitor for leaving under the circumstances that he did.
3) Allen apologists who dress down group #2 for calling Allen out.
4) Allen haters who mock group #1 for appreciating Allen's contributions.

Just kidding, nobody from group #4 actually exists. This is entirely a one-way feud on the part of the apologists. I think that Allen is a scumbag, but I don't care to argue or disagree with people who want to thank him for the good things that he did, either for the team or various charities in the area.

Yet I have to deal with people constantly implying all sorts of unsavory things about me on the subject of Ray Allen.

[Clench123]

I've got to say, to see how classless some Celtics fans are, it almost makes me wish the Heat win the championship.  Every negative stereotype of bad fans there are in the league -- entitled, ignorant, classless, boorish, etc. -- has come out loud and clear during the Ray Allen saga.

We have a ton of good fans, many of whom aren't big Ray Allen fans right now.  Unfortunately, we have some fans who are pretty crappy, too, and part of me wants to see those folks end up miserable.

(Again, they're a minority of Celtics fans -- probably a small percentage -- but they sure are vocal with their vitriol.)

If that isn't a pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is.  That post has much hate as anyone here has towards Ray.  Thing is ppl have every right to react to Ray Allen's move as they want.  That's the true meaning of being a fan in every sense.  Being hateful and patronizing about it in the guise of trying to be the "classy fan" is hypocritical in my opinion.  Downright ridiculous

[Roy H.]

I've got to say, to see how classless some Celtics fans are, it almost makes me wish the Heat win the championship.  Every negative stereotype of bad fans there are in the league -- entitled, ignorant, classless, boorish, etc. -- has come out loud and clear during the Ray Allen saga.

We have a ton of good fans, many of whom aren't big Ray Allen fans right now.  Unfortunately, we have some fans who are pretty crappy, too, and part of me wants to see those folks end up miserable.

(Again, they're a minority of Celtics fans -- probably a small percentage -- but they sure are vocal with their vitriol.)

If that isn't a pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is.  That post has much hate as anyone here has towards Ray.  Thing is ppl have every right to react to Ray Allen's move as they want.  That's the true meaning of being a fan in every sense.  Being hateful and patronizing about it in the guise of trying to be the "classy fan" is hypocritical in my opinion.  Downright ridiculous

Yes, what a terrible, hypocritical, "hateful" post of mine, saying that I take exception to those who are vitriolic and classless. 

Personally, I'd rather hang out with Lakers and Heat fans than fans who root for injury and/or behave in a classless, entitled manner. 

[guava_wrench]

PLEASE stop with some of these posts on here - celebrating Ray's injury?

Seriously?

After Feb 19, 2009 and June 15, 2010 - I don't think we should be celebrating ANYONE's injuries....

Perk and KG going down probably cost BOS AT LEAST two rings.

Sorry but some of us aren't that "nice" and shouldn't be.  Nobody here is wishing him a serious injury but anything to make this guy realize he left a knife in our backs.  I really hope his run on the Heat is one big FAIL.  Call me heartless but that's the way it is

But it makes us look petty when we stoop to the level of wishing bad on another player - especially regarding his health.

Maybe we are petty.

I like Ray Allen a lot. Yet, I was happy to hear the ankle issue news. The reality is that Ray is old. His body might not recover from some ailments. I want to beat the Heat and Ray being over the hill would help that. It would also make losing him a great move for us.

I think there is a difference between hoping someone gets injured and feeling relief over hearing someone will continue to have a nagging injury in their old age. I am not one for pretending that we don't react that way, especially when these players make the choice to sacrifice their bodies to play longer. Similarly, I don't feel sorry when extreme sports lovers lose limbs or die while risking their lives for a rush.

I still like Ray but I will be happy to see him ineffective all season due to failing ankles. Let's be real about this. We aren't talking about someone who won't be able to walk normal for the rest of his life. We are just talking about someone whose ankles can't handle the intense strain of professional basketball. It might be no worse in the long run than the aches some of us have in our joints from playing basketball for free.

[guava_wrench]

Short version of my point in a longer post:

Ray's ankles are NOT a big deal. He is not in danger of not being able to walk. He is just in danger of not being able to play at the NBA level because he has old joints. Many of us have this so we have decided to play less basketball.

[Interceptor]

And please, let's quit these "he helped us raise banner 17" stuff.  You guys are acting like he did it all by himself.  As a matter of fact, his contribution that year was little.

Well, thanks for undermining my point.    I feel like you are understating how big of a part of the team that he was.

[guava_wrench]

And please, let's quit these "he helped us raise banner 17" stuff.  You guys are acting like he did it all by himself.  As a matter of fact, his contribution that year was little.

Well, thanks for undermining my point.    I feel like you are understating how big of a part of the team that he was.

He sure was vital in the game 5 comeback with the ridiculous reverse and then taking Sasha to school on a blow by at a crucial point.

[Clench123]

And please, let's quit these "he helped us raise banner 17" stuff.  You guys are acting like he did it all by himself.  As a matter of fact, his contribution that year was little.

Well, thanks for undermining my point.    I feel like you are understating how big of a part of the team that he was.

Nah...trust me, I know how big he was for us.  He came through for us many times but I'm going to be cautious in going overboard with his contribution to our last banner.  Just like a puzzle, he was just a piece we needed but there's a reason he's always the 3rd or forth most important player on the team

[GreenFaith1819]

PLEASE stop with some of these posts on here - celebrating Ray's injury?

Seriously?

After Feb 19, 2009 and June 15, 2010 - I don't think we should be celebrating ANYONE's injuries....

Perk and KG going down probably cost BOS AT LEAST two rings.

Sorry but some of us aren't that "nice" and shouldn't be.  Nobody here is wishing him a serious injury but anything to make this guy realize he left a knife in our backs.  I really hope his run on the Heat is one big FAIL.  Call me heartless but that's the way it is

But it makes us look petty when we stoop to the level of wishing bad on another player - especially regarding his health.

Maybe we are petty.

I like Ray Allen a lot. Yet, I was happy to hear the ankle issue news. The reality is that Ray is old. His body might not recover from some ailments. I want to beat the Heat and Ray being over the hill would help that. It would also make losing him a great move for us.

I think there is a difference between hoping someone gets injured and feeling relief over hearing someone will continue to have a nagging injury in their old age. I am not one for pretending that we don't react that way, especially when these players make the choice to sacrifice their bodies to play longer. Similarly, I don't feel sorry when extreme sports lovers lose limbs or die while risking their lives for a rush.

I still like Ray but I will be happy to see him ineffective all season due to failing ankles. Let's be real about this. We aren't talking about someone who won't be able to walk normal for the rest of his life. We are just talking about someone whose ankles can't handle the intense strain of professional basketball. It might be no worse in the long run than the aches some of us have in our joints from playing basketball for free.

You DO realize that we as BOS fans are depending upon KG and Paul Pierce, both of whom are OLD, too - right?

We lose either of them, and Rajon Rondo can average a triple double this season and we aren't getting out of the 1st round.

2008-09 all over again.

To be honest, I think BOS fans should be tossing their dislike towards LeBron James instead of Ray Allen. After all, it was LeBron that ran roughshod over our team single-handledly in that decisive game 6.

Why are we literally wishing bad health on Ray Allen when BOS is a KG injury or Paul Pierce Knee from Danny going into instant rebuild mode?

Let's not kid ourselves that KG, even though I LOVE the man - will play like he did last year. Or Paul Pierce.

Our window is closing. Danny did a great job this summer propping it open for a bit, but it IS in fact closing.

I'm not wishing anything bad on no one - Ray Allen, LeBron, etc.

[moiso]

PLEASE stop with some of these posts on here - celebrating Ray's injury?

Seriously?

After Feb 19, 2009 and June 15, 2010 - I don't think we should be celebrating ANYONE's injuries....

Perk and KG going down probably cost BOS AT LEAST two rings.

Sorry but some of us aren't that "nice" and shouldn't be.  Nobody here is wishing him a serious injury but anything to make this guy realize he left a knife in our backs.  I really hope his run on the Heat is one big FAIL.  Call me heartless but that's the way it is

But it makes us look petty when we stoop to the level of wishing bad on another player - especially regarding his health.

Maybe we are petty.

I like Ray Allen a lot. Yet, I was happy to hear the ankle issue news. The reality is that Ray is old. His body might not recover from some ailments. I want to beat the Heat and Ray being over the hill would help that. It would also make losing him a great move for us.

I think there is a difference between hoping someone gets injured and feeling relief over hearing someone will continue to have a nagging injury in their old age. I am not one for pretending that we don't react that way, especially when these players make the choice to sacrifice their bodies to play longer. Similarly, I don't feel sorry when extreme sports lovers lose limbs or die while risking their lives for a rush.

I still like Ray but I will be happy to see him ineffective all season due to failing ankles. Let's be real about this. We aren't talking about someone who won't be able to walk normal for the rest of his life. We are just talking about someone whose ankles can't handle the intense strain of professional basketball. It might be no worse in the long run than the aches some of us have in our joints from playing basketball for free.

You DO realize that we as BOS fans are depending upon KG and Paul Pierce, both of whom are OLD, too - right?

We lose either of them, and Rajon Rondo can average a triple double this season and we aren't getting out of the 1st round.

2008-09 all over again.

To be honest, I think BOS fans should be tossing their dislike towards LeBron James instead of Ray Allen. After all, it was LeBron that ran roughshod over our team single-handledly in that decisive game 6.

Why are we literally wishing bad health on Ray Allen when BOS is a KG injury or Paul Pierce Knee from Danny going into instant rebuild mode?

Let's not kid ourselves that KG, even though I LOVE the man - will play like he did last year. Or Paul Pierce.

Our window is closing. Danny did a great job this summer propping it open for a bit, but it IS in fact closing.

I'm not wishing anything bad on no one - Ray Allen, LeBron, etc.

We can win without Paul. 

[guava_wrench]

I've got to say, to see how classless some Celtics fans are, it almost makes me wish the Heat win the championship.  Every negative stereotype of bad fans there are in the league -- entitled, ignorant, classless, boorish, etc. -- has come out loud and clear during the Ray Allen saga.

We have a ton of good fans, many of whom aren't big Ray Allen fans right now.  Unfortunately, we have some fans who are pretty crappy, too, and part of me wants to see those folks end up miserable.

(Again, they're a minority of Celtics fans -- probably a small percentage -- but they sure are vocal with their vitriol.)

If that isn't a pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is.  That post has much hate as anyone here has towards Ray.  Thing is ppl have every right to react to Ray Allen's move as they want.  That's the true meaning of being a fan in every sense.  Being hateful and patronizing about it in the guise of trying to be the "classy fan" is hypocritical in my opinion.  Downright ridiculous

I thought he made a valid critique. I think you also have the right to have a different perspective.

I side with Roy on the over-the-top tribal fan reactions. But some people have strong us-versus-them feelings and in gets manifested in their sports. We can see people who believe these fantastic narratives about how morally deficient players on other teams are and how virtuous our players are. This does not make them better or worse fans than those of us who don't do that. It just makes them stronger supporters of in-group thinking. This allows them to completely change their views on Ray Allen in the course of a single month. This allows them to ignore slights against Ray over the last few years while focusing only on slights to the Celtics franchise, the group they are loyal to.

I think Roy's critique is similar to my feelings on the issue, though it is possible I have misinterpreted his view. I am completely loyal to the sports teams that I have root for since I was a kid. I have no 'second favorite' teams. If my team is horrible, the sport might as well not exist. But I am not tribal or groupist about it. I do not villainize those outside the Celtics or those who dislike the Celtics. I can understand those who are more groupist, but it can be scary to think how easily strong hate can be induced in people over sport.