The All-Broke team

[FatKidsDad]

Save a seat on the bench for Vin Baker

[Eja117]

...  the sad thing is, you could do a lot more than an All-Star team.  Seems like you could populate a thirty-team squad, 12-man deep, with former NBA players who have squandered their millions.

The stuff I read said 60% of players are broke in 5 years. On some level their agents have to be held accountable for this. My understanding is it's very common for things to happen like the agent says "I need you to look good off the court. You need to go to get like 5 sports jackets from so and so. It's already paid for so you just gotta pick it up" (This would be easier to do and also more important with the new dress code rules). Player goes to get jackets. Doesn't realize they're like 2K each and that so and so is in the agent's pocket getting a kickback.  Obviously the player shouldn't have given any of his account info or anything like that to the agent, but the agent shouldn't have asked for it or defrauded him.

I don't think it's the agent's fault for the most part (although there are many cases where the agent does defraud the player, I think this is a small % overall). The player is an adult.  If the players not watching his money, that’s the player’s fault, not the agents (not talking about agents who defraud players, but regular agents).  And again I’m sure a lot of agents tell their players, you need to budget, you need to invest, you need to put money aside, but ultimately it’s up to the player.  If I was an agent and told a multi-million dollar athlete he can’t spend his own money on what he wants, he could just fire me and then spend his money on whatever he pleases.  A lot of players want yes men as their agents.  The agent can point the player in the right direction, but it’s up to the player to get there himself.  How many of us don’t listen to our doctor or dentist or even our own financial advisors, and don't double check our own finances? A whole lot of us I imagine.

It’s an agents job to get the player the best deal from teams and endorsements, I don’t believe it’s the agents job to manage a player’s money.  You need to hire a separate accountant or financial advisor or even both for that.  I bet most agents tell their players to get those and even recommend guys, but I wonder how many listen and follow through.

I think this is the usual situation with most players:

I have X years in this league, and Y more contracts and I’m going to play till I’m 35-36.  From stars to scrubs I bet this is a major problem. Guys like Antoine and Marbury and Iverson I’m sure thought they’d be playing till they were at least 35.  Every first rounder probably thinks they’ll sign at least another 2-3 contracts after their rookie deal.  They think I can spend a lot of money now, but I’ll be sure to save and spend wisely during my next contract.  They think retirement is a far way off.  Not just athletes, most people don’t properly plan for retirement, I bet most people on this board aren’t making sufficient contributions to retirement (IRA’s, 401k’s etc.).  Just like athletes, they’ll worry about it later, and they won’t be ready.

If 60% of NBAers go broke after 5 years, I bet just as many don’t know when they get paid.  Do they get paid weekly, bi-weekly, semi-monthly, monthly?  I bet they don’t know.  Are their paychecks structured so they get paid all year round or just during the NBA season?  I bet most of them can’t answer that question.  On top of that, I bet they don’t know how much they pay in taxes: federal, state, property, I bet they have no clue.  But I think a lot of regular people don’t really know either.  Ask a normal person what they paid 3 years ago in taxes, and what they expect to pay in 2 years, they probably have no clue (especially if you have a significant other that takes care of it for you).  Just because somebody takes care of it for you, doesn’t mean you should be completely ignorant about it.

And then it’s just poor math skills.  Something that hits most everybody, not just athletes.   A young player with a $5m salary, probably thinks they have $5m to spend. I’ll buy a $1m house for me, and I’ll buy a $1m house for my mom, I’ll spend about $500k-$1m on toys for me (cars, jewelry, being Santa Claus for 50-100 of you closest friends and family members), and I’ll still have $2m left to pay my bills. Well federal taxes will take 35%, and NBA players get state taxes from 20 different states (look up jock tax, it 's crazy), as well as any foreign country you play in, plus agent fees and accountant fees, they’ll be lucky to take home half their salary.  So maybe they only have $2.5m, but they already spent $3m because they thought they have $5m.  A lot of people fall victim to this mentality, not just athletes, even though there are people telling them not to spend that much.

Not really the agents fault unless the agents are supposed to act like parents.

My point is just that if agents etc are acting in good faith then they have nothing to worry about. I have serious doubts that they are. I'm sure each guy is a complicated story unto themselves.

[bdm860]

My point is just that if agents etc are acting in good faith then they have nothing to worry about. I have serious doubts that they are. I'm sure each guy is a complicated story unto themselves.

I think they are acting in good faith though, there's only like a few agents/agency that control like 90% of the NBA.  While there's a huge supply of agents, only a few are actually working.  I think you got to be good for the players to last in the business.  The agents that screw players don't last long.

Telling a player to buy some expensive suits that the player purchased is not failing to act in good faith.

What did David Falk do to make Antoine and Iverson broke, while at the same time other Falk clients are buying franchises (Jordan) or building multi-million dollar hospitals (Mutombo)?

Definitely not the agent's fault in those cases.

Most people are bad with money, whether a million dollar athlete or the average Joe Schmo.  Agents can't save players from themselves.

[Eja117]

My point is just that if agents etc are acting in good faith then they have nothing to worry about. I have serious doubts that they are. I'm sure each guy is a complicated story unto themselves.

I think they are acting in good faith though, there's only like a few agents/agency that control like 90% of the NBA.  While there's a huge supply of agents, only a few are actually working.  I think you got to be good for the players to last in the business.  The agents that screw players don't last long.

Telling a player to buy some expensive suits that the player purchased is not failing to act in good faith.

What did David Falk do to make Antoine and Iverson broke, while at the same time other Falk clients are buying franchises (Jordan) or building multi-million dollar hospitals (Mutombo)?

Definitely not the agent's fault in those cases.

Most people are bad with money, whether a million dollar athlete or the average Joe Schmo.  Agents can save players from themselves.

basketball may not be a great example as there are only 15 guys per team, whereas football and baseball have a lot more players.

I'm pretty sure Faulk is probably in the clear and if you're a guy that makes it rain in a club or gambles 100K in a night the suit story won't cut it, however in the example I gave I do think the agent didn't act in good faith at all. Buying them at exorbitant prices and getting a kick back for it is nothing like saying "Go shopping for some suits."  If an agent has the power to do that and then does do it with all his purchasing decisions that could get horrid quick and there's no excuse for it. I doubt a Faulk resorts to bush league stuff like that.

[Chris]

My point is just that if agents etc are acting in good faith then they have nothing to worry about. I have serious doubts that they are. I'm sure each guy is a complicated story unto themselves.

I think they are acting in good faith though, there's only like a few agents/agency that control like 90% of the NBA.  While there's a huge supply of agents, only a few are actually working.  I think you got to be good for the players to last in the business.  The agents that screw players don't last long.

Telling a player to buy some expensive suits that the player purchased is not failing to act in good faith.

What did David Falk do to make Antoine and Iverson broke, while at the same time other Falk clients are buying franchises (Jordan) or building multi-million dollar hospitals (Mutombo)?

Definitely not the agent's fault in those cases.

Most people are bad with money, whether a million dollar athlete or the average Joe Schmo.  Agents can save players from themselves.

basketball may not be a great example as there are only 15 guys per team, whereas football and baseball have a lot more players.

I'm pretty sure Faulk is probably in the clear and if you're a guy that makes it rain in a club or gambles 100K in a night the suit story won't cut it, however in the example I gave I do think the agent didn't act in good faith at all. Buying them at exorbitant prices and getting a kick back for it is nothing like saying "Go shopping for some suits."  If an agent has the power to do that and then does do it with all his purchasing decisions that could get horrid quick and there's no excuse for it. I doubt a Faulk resorts to bush league stuff like that.

Wait, now are we talking about agents actually making a commission, and suit salesmen jacking up prices for specific players as part of a scheme?  Or are we talking about an agent recommending a certain tailor, who happens to give the agent free suits of his own for referring others?

The way you describe it, it sounds like some mob type setup, but in reality, I think it is just a pretty standard referal system, where the agent is recommending a guy who does work, and who he is a frequent customer of.

Not to mention, generally, it is not actually the agent who is doing this type of thing.  It is a business manager. 

[Eja117]

My point is just that if agents etc are acting in good faith then they have nothing to worry about. I have serious doubts that they are. I'm sure each guy is a complicated story unto themselves.

I think they are acting in good faith though, there's only like a few agents/agency that control like 90% of the NBA.  While there's a huge supply of agents, only a few are actually working.  I think you got to be good for the players to last in the business.  The agents that screw players don't last long.

Telling a player to buy some expensive suits that the player purchased is not failing to act in good faith.

What did David Falk do to make Antoine and Iverson broke, while at the same time other Falk clients are buying franchises (Jordan) or building multi-million dollar hospitals (Mutombo)?

Definitely not the agent's fault in those cases.

Most people are bad with money, whether a million dollar athlete or the average Joe Schmo.  Agents can save players from themselves.

basketball may not be a great example as there are only 15 guys per team, whereas football and baseball have a lot more players.

I'm pretty sure Faulk is probably in the clear and if you're a guy that makes it rain in a club or gambles 100K in a night the suit story won't cut it, however in the example I gave I do think the agent didn't act in good faith at all. Buying them at exorbitant prices and getting a kick back for it is nothing like saying "Go shopping for some suits."  If an agent has the power to do that and then does do it with all his purchasing decisions that could get horrid quick and there's no excuse for it. I doubt a Faulk resorts to bush league stuff like that.

Wait, now are we talking about agents actually making a commission, and suit salesmen jacking up prices for specific players as part of a scheme?  Or are we talking about an agent recommending a certain tailor, who happens to give the agent free suits of his own for referring others?

The way you describe it, it sounds like some mob type setup, but in reality, I think it is just a pretty standard referal system, where the agent is recommending a guy who does work, and who he is a frequent customer of.

Not to mention, generally, it is not actually the agent who is doing this type of thing.  It is a business manager.

The way it was described to me by a college player it sounded more the first way. I assume in the history of time perhaps it's been done both ways sometimes in good faith and sometimes not

[guava_wrench]

A lot of athletes grew up with ridiculous ideas about what they should do if they are rich. Gambling problems are also a good way to blow through money despite how demonstrably stupid it is to think you will make money at casinos.

[hwangjini_1]

and its not just nba players folks...

"The personal finances of professional American athletes are so often handled badly that, according to a 2009 Sports Illustrated article, 78% of National Football League players are either bankrupt or in financial trouble within two years of retirement, and an estimated 60% of National Basketball Association players go bankrupt within five years after leaving their sport."

[OsirusCeltics]

Wait, Pippen and Iverson are broke?

[freshinthehouse]

Spreewell needs a spot on this list.  Turns down a 3 year/21 mill contract because it is beneath him, then goes broke a few years later.