CB Draft Finals: (1) Mavericks vs. (1) Bulls

[indeedproceed]

Honestly the whole thing hinges on one critical difference of opinion:

Can Kyrie Irving get the better of Jrue Holiday?

Dallas has made it this far, so logically Kyrie Irving is an awesome second fiddle to Lebron. I agree with this.

But Chicago has also made it this far, and Jrue Holiday spent the last series defending Chris Paul.

The only empirical evidence we have regarding Irving and Holiday heavily favors holiday, even of you regress his hot shooting to a more normal mean.

In the game where Holiday didn't shoot lights out from 3, Irving played 33 minutes to Holidays 35, and Irving shot 30% from the field. And this was in March, well into Kyrie's rookie season.

Holiday outs ores him 19 pts to 12, and Irving shot 30% from the field.

There isnt a comeback to that. There would be of it only happened once, but Irving was outscored by Holiday 24 to 9 the next time they met.

And Holiday is no chump, he'a An elite defesive pg. if Holiday can stay true to his previous play against Irving (keep in mind such things as their young ages, Holidays playoff experience, etc), is there any way Dallas wins the series?

Lebron needs other elite options around him. Even without a healthy Wade and Bosh, he managed to make the threat of them and elite defense from everyone (Wade and Bosh included) work out for a Finals win. Lebron has no other players to catch the attention of the defense here without Irving.

[Roy H.]

Honestly the whole thing hinges on one critical difference of opinion:

Can Kyrie Irving get the better of Jrue Holiday?

That's what this thing hinges on?  Well, then, this should be an easy vote for people.

The only empirical evidence we have regarding Irving and Holiday heavily favors holiday

Here's the "empirical evidence" you're overlooking:

Player A:  18.5 points, 5.4 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 46.9% FG%, 39.9% 3PT%, .517 eFG%, .566 TS%

Player B: 13.5 points, 4.5 assists, 3.3 rebounds, 43.2% FG%, 38.0% 3PT%, .471 eFG%, .496 TS%

Also, note that Player A led the entire league in clutch scoring, while Player B seriously regressed from his sophomore season in terms of points, assists, rebounds, FG%, eFG%, etc.

"Empirical" doesn't mean you get to disregard a 50+ game sample size, just because it's inconvenient for you.

[indeedproceed]

Honestly the whole thing hinges on one critical difference of opinion:

Can Kyrie Irving get the better of Jrue Holiday?

That's what this thing hinges on?  Well, then, this should be an easy vote for people.

The only empirical evidence we have regarding Irving and Holiday heavily favors holiday

Here's the "empirical evidence" you're overlooking:

Player A:  18.5 points, 5.4 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 46.9% FG%, 39.9% 3PT%, .517 eFG%, .566 TS%

Player B: 13.5 points, 4.5 assists, 3.3 rebounds, 43.2% FG%, 38.0% 3PT%, .471 eFG%, .496 TS%

Also, note that Player A led the entire league in clutch scoring, while Player B seriously regressed from his sophomore season in terms of points, assists, rebounds, FG%, eFG%, etc.

"Empirical" doesn't mean you get to disregard a 50+ game sample size, just because it's inconvenient for you.

So we're disregarding h2h matchups? Well than Wade, Pierce and Bosh think you are a silly, silly man.

You wanna pimp a rookie for an entire draft, you gotta take your lumps when the rook gets beat Roy.

[Roy H.]

Honestly the whole thing hinges on one critical difference of opinion:

Can Kyrie Irving get the better of Jrue Holiday?

That's what this thing hinges on?  Well, then, this should be an easy vote for people.

The only empirical evidence we have regarding Irving and Holiday heavily favors holiday

Here's the "empirical evidence" you're overlooking:

Player A:  18.5 points, 5.4 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 46.9% FG%, 39.9% 3PT%, .517 eFG%, .566 TS%

Player B: 13.5 points, 4.5 assists, 3.3 rebounds, 43.2% FG%, 38.0% 3PT%, .471 eFG%, .496 TS%

Also, note that Player A led the entire league in clutch scoring, while Player B seriously regressed from his sophomore season in terms of points, assists, rebounds, FG%, eFG%, etc.

"Empirical" doesn't mean you get to disregard a 50+ game sample size, just because it's inconvenient for you.

So we're disregarding h2h matchups? Well than Wade, Pierce and Bosh think you are a silly, silly man.

You wanna pimp a rookie for an entire draft, you gotta take your lumps when the rook gets beat Roy.

Speaking of pimping a rookie, here's what you said about Kyrie Irving:

Both Wade and Irving can initiate and facilitate the offense, both guys can take over the game at will. And, because of the age difference, and skillsets, I think Irving will mesh well with Wade chemistry wise.

Really?  Irving can "take over the game at will"?  Irving can "initiate and facilitate the offense"?  Interesting.  Sounds like a good guy to place next to Lebron.

[indeedproceed]

Hey guys, in case you were wondering:

You know where Elton Brand was most effective as a defensive player? As a center, next to Thad Young.

Know where Varejao played like...all of his minutes during his 25 (guessing) game career season? Center.

Wanna guess how ineffective a Brand/Varejao lineup is against Thad young and Chris Bosh?

[Roy H.]

Can Jrue Holiday do that?  I guess we'll never know, because his team doesn't trust him with the ball in his hands down the stretch. 

Here's another quote:

Holiday isn’t the ideal replacement for Conley (and its not really fair to think of him like that), and that’s because he’s not really much of a passer. Among starting point guards, [Holiday ranks near the bottom of the league in] assist ratios, which wouldn’t be such a big deal if he was a more versatile scorer, but he’s not. He’s defensively very good, and a decent shooter, but his passing is a concern considering the other guys in the lineup.

So, how's that for candor?  Holiday is a bad passer, only a "decent" shooter, and isn't a versatile scorer.

So, according to IndeedProceed:

Player A can "score at will", while Player B isn't "really much of a passer", is only a "decent shooter", and isn't a "versatile scorer".

And this is the matchup that you should base your vote on, according to IP.  Sounds excellent to me.

[indeedproceed]

Honestly the whole thing hinges on one critical difference of opinion:

Can Kyrie Irving get the better of Jrue Holiday?

That's what this thing hinges on?  Well, then, this should be an easy vote for people.

The only empirical evidence we have regarding Irving and Holiday heavily favors holiday

Here's the "empirical evidence" you're overlooking:

Player A:  18.5 points, 5.4 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 46.9% FG%, 39.9% 3PT%, .517 eFG%, .566 TS%

Player B: 13.5 points, 4.5 assists, 3.3 rebounds, 43.2% FG%, 38.0% 3PT%, .471 eFG%, .496 TS%

Also, note that Player A led the entire league in clutch scoring, while Player B seriously regressed from his sophomore season in terms of points, assists, rebounds, FG%, eFG%, etc.

"Empirical" doesn't mean you get to disregard a 50+ game sample size, just because it's inconvenient for you.

So we're disregarding h2h matchups? Well than Wade, Pierce and Bosh think you are a silly, silly man.

You wanna pimp a rookie for an entire draft, you gotta take your lumps when the rook gets beat Roy.

Speaking of pimping a rookie, here's what you said about Kyrie Irving:

Both Wade and Irving can initiate and facilitate the offense, both guys can take over the game at will. And, because of the age difference, and skillsets, I think Irving will mesh well with Wade chemistry wise.

Really?  Irving can "take over the game at will"?  Irving can "initiate and facilitate the offense"?  Interesting.  Sounds like a good guy to place next to Lebron.

Honestly Roy he's a great guy to place next to Lebron.

But, that's as long as he's not facing Jrue Holiday every night in a 7 game series.

I voted the Mavs first for a reason; Lebron dominates the regular season, and against a vast majority of the PGs in the NBA, Kyrie Irving is a net positive But that doesn't preclude him from being beaten by Jrue Holiday.

[ronaldo943]

30 more minutes get your votes in!

[Roy H.]

Hey guys, in case you were wondering:

You know where Elton Brand was most effective as a defensive player? As a center, next to Thad Young.

Know where Varejao played like...all of his minutes during his 25 (guessing) game career season? Center.

Wanna guess how ineffective a Brand/Varejao lineup is against Thad young and Chris Bosh?

1.  We're not playing a Brand / Varejao lineup often;

2.  Chris Bosh + Thad Young is the weakest, softest, worst rebounding front court in this entire game;

3.  Chris Bosh himself noted that Elton Brand is a "tree stump" in terms of his defensive prowess;

4.  Elton Brand held opposing PFs to 43% shooting.  He was an excellent defender there, as Philly's best defensive unit included Brand playing PF.  Heck, he was an excellent defender everywhere, as he ranked 14th in post defense and 9th against the pick-and-roll, the only player to rank that high in both categories.

[indeedproceed]

Roy has a wise straterdy here: Walt til IP is too drunk to figger out the 'search' function while also putting in gifs nobody cAres about, while also dodging the real argument at hand.

This is why he is the best, folks.

[indeedproceed]

Also I wish I could access synergy stats from my phone. It's hard to contest them when I can't.

[Roy H.]

Roy has a wise straterdy here: Walt til IP is too drunk to figger out the 'search' function while also putting in gifs nobody cAres about, while also dodging the real argument at hand.

This is why he is the best, folks.

Let's review:

1.  You said the "real argument" came down to Irving vs. Holiday;

2.  Irving was a much better player than Holiday last season;

3.  You admitted that Irving could take over games, while noting that Holiday is a bad passer and limited scorer.

Case closed, right?

[indeedproceed]

Btw, did we ever decide who Lebons real defensive assignment would be?

[indeedproceed]

Roy has a wise straterdy here: Walt til IP is too drunk to figger out the 'search' function while also putting in gifs nobody cAres about, while also dodging the real argument at hand.

This is why he is the best, folks.

Let's review:

1.  You said the "real argument" came down to Irving vs. Holiday;

2.  Irving was a much better player than Holiday last season;

3.  You admitted that Irving could take over games, while noting that Holiday is a bad passer and limited scorer.

Case closed, right?

1) you never confronted the games Holiday dominated Irving in except saying 'he cAnt shoot that well every game'

2) your mom is ugly

3) you can't tell anyone why a 6'4 elite defensive pg won't  beat Kyrie Irving like he did in actual games.

Right closed case?

[indeedproceed]

So honest question:

What lineup for the cavs plays the most minutes?

Sorry, I meant Dallas.