CB Draft Finals: (1) Mavericks vs. (1) Bulls

[indeedproceed]

Still can't believe I came so close again and still couldn't get it! One person changes their mind and votes Bulls, and we get it!

The wife and I were driving back from Provincetown today, and I was quiet for a while and she says, 'Whats wrong?'

'nothin, I was just wondering if I should've been more mean or if I could've argued better in the draft.'

'That thing on CelticsBlog? You still care about that?!'

Sigh..the Bulls are the Bills.

[ronaldo943]

Still can't believe I came so close again and still couldn't get it! One person changes their mind and votes Bulls, and we get it!

The wife and I were driving back from Provincetown today, and I was quiet for a while and she says, 'Whats wrong?'

'nothin, I was just wondering if I should've been more mean or if I could've argued better in the draft.'

'That thing on CelticsBlog? You still care about that?!'

Sigh..the Bulls are the Bills.

Lol, yea i feel like Roy's eruption won him the Draft.

[Roy H.]

Still can't believe I came so close again and still couldn't get it! One person changes their mind and votes Bulls, and we get it!

The wife and I were driving back from Provincetown today, and I was quiet for a while and she says, 'Whats wrong?'

'nothin, I was just wondering if I should've been more mean or if I could've argued better in the draft.'

'That thing on CelticsBlog? You still care about that?!'

Sigh..the Bulls are the Bills.

Lol, yea i feel like Roy's eruption won him the Draft.

I doubt it, but perhaps it did get some people to be more vocal about what a mismatch this was.  There's no way Chicago could have stayed with Dallas on the boards, and they couldn't have defended the paint / stopped penetration.

I wish more folks had participated earlier, so that the final thread could have helped people take a closer look at the matchup, rather than listening to pitches from just the three GMs involved.

Great matchup, IP.  I'll chalk it up to drunkness, but pinning your hopes on Jrue Holiday outplaying Kyrie Irving wasn't a great strategy in my mind.  Irving is simply better, and most basketball fans know that.  Too much pimping of Jrue Holiday, and not enough focus on Wade / Bosh / Pierce. 

Also, I think the Okafor trade hurt you a bit.  If you'd kept him, I think you're champion right now. 

[indeedproceed]

Well A) I wasn't saying Roy's tirade hurt me, not at all.

B) basketball fans should've known I was the better team.

[Roy H.]

Well A) I wasn't saying Roy's tirade hurt me, not at all.

B) basketball fans should've known I was the better team.

We all become attached to our teams, and obviously we all think they're better than others might.

However, here's how I see a couple of basic points:

1.  Dallas was the most efficient team in the league;

2.  Dallas would win the rebounding battle here.

When you give a team that is extremely efficient extra possessions, I'm not sure how it's possible to beat them.  Couple that with weak front court defense in Bosh / Young, and I don't see how you win.

That's my candid opinion here.  I also think that Dallas was more versatile, and could give you more looks than you could give us.

I won't argue talent necessarily, because that's subjective.  However, in terms of how the two teams would match up on the floor, I can't see a way that Chicago wins 4 out of 7.

[indeedproceed]

My opinion is a little shorter, but I think it's very valid:

A) Jrue Holiday has shown the ability to severely limit Kyrie Irving, and score on him (and more than him).

B) if Irving isnt scoring ~18-20 ppg, I don't think there is a reliable second option, and I think the Bulls will outscored the Mavs in 4 games out of 7. I'm not arguing that Holiday is the better player than Irving, I'm arguing that he'a a terrible matchup.

[Roy H.]

My opinion is a little shorter, but I think it's very valid:

A) Jrue Holiday has shown the ability to severely limit Kyrie Irving, and score on him (and more than him).

B) if Irving isnt scoring ~18-20 ppg, I don't think there is a reliable second option, and I think the Bulls will outscored the Mavs in 4 games out of 7. I'm not arguing that Holiday is the better player than Irving, I'm arguing that he'a a terrible matchup.

This focus is the reason you lost.  You're asking people to accept a two game sample size as gospel.  The same Kyrie Irving that had three excellent games against Rajon Rondo and the Celtics defense is supposedly turned into a scrub by Jrue Holiday? 

In that second game, Irving hardly played due to a lingering shoulder injury and the fact that the Cavs were tanking.  That basically brings your entire argument down to one game.  Candidly, since the draft is over, does that make any sense at all to you?  Jrue Holiday is some sort of Kyrie Irving stopper due to one game?

Here's an example to show how faulty that reasoning is:

In the one time they matched up this year, Klay Thompson dominated Paul Pierce:

Pierce: 15 points, 5-of-17 shooting
Thompson: 26 points, 9-of-16 shooting

Similarly, Nate Robinson dominated Rajon Rondo:

Rondo:  8 points, 4-of-9 shooting
Robinson: 20 points, 10-of-19 shooting

Is Klay Thompson a Pierce-stopper?  Is Nate Robinson a vastly superior defender than Rajon Rondo?  Of course not, but if you only look at one game, that's the conclusion you get.  That's without even getting into considering team defenses and/or personnel on the court.

I'm just shocked that this is the argument you pushed  It's a very weak one.  The fact that you focused so much here, and made basically no effort to combat the Dallas' argument that it would dominate rebounding and inside scoring, is why Dallas won.

[Edgar]

Well A) I wasn't saying Roy's tirade hurt me, not at all.

B) basketball fans should've known I was the better team.

heeeeyy

i was playing too

[Roy H.]

I was just going through my earlier arguments in this thread, and noticed this picture didn't post:

If it had, maybe we could have won some of the earlier votes. 

[ronaldo943]

What i meant by Roy's tirade:

First, im pretty sure alot of us were leaning towards IP alot since Roy hadnt said anything but once he said something it seemed pretty weak at first compared to all that IP had said so i voted for IP but once Roy had the eruption i went back to look at his argument and saw that he had a good point i thought of changing my vote back and forth but at the ended decided not to since i was pretty sure you couldnt cancel a vote and then send in another one.

[Edgar]

nobody notices me


after all...

I pick bronnie
didnt I

[Roy H.]

nobody notices me


after all...

I pick bronnie
didnt I

This team is covered with Edgar's fingerprints:



Lebron, Brand, Varejao, Dunleavy, Green, Thabo, Anthony...  the only thing missing was Delonte.

[Edgar]

nobody notices me


after all...

I pick bronnie
didnt I

This team is covered with Edgar's fingerprints:



Lebron, Brand, Varejao, Dunleavy, Green, Thabo...  the only thing missing was Delonte.

ohhhh and wiggle will pay for that one.... 

[nickagneta]

What i meant by Roy's tirade:

First, im pretty sure alot of us were leaning towards IP alot since Roy hadnt said anything but once he said something it seemed pretty weak at first compared to all that IP had said so i voted for IP but once Roy had the eruption i went back to look at his argument and saw that he had a good point i thought of changing my vote back and forth but at the ended decided not to since i was pretty sure you couldnt cancel a vote and then send in another one.

Here's what's wrong with this argument:

1.) I think the people who voted for Dallas were going to vote for Dallas regardless of Roy's anger management issue.

2.) There's a reason the voting goes all day. Just because early on some people said they were voting for Chicago doesn't mean squat. You have to wait it out. When the voting was public some years ago, everyone could see teams jump out to early day leads only to lose because the other team suddenly gets a bunch of votes later in the day. It happens.

3.) Last year the votes of each individual were released in a spreadsheet the following day so each GM could see who voted and the teams they voted for. It became pretty easy to judge whether you were going to get someone's vote because you could see where they placed you in the conference standings and see how they voted for you in each matchup. My guess is if those were all released now and we looked at the patterns of people's votes, it would be pretty easy to tell that Roy's "tirade" probably influenced almost nobody.

[indeedproceed]

I agree with Nick. Nobody votes for you (well ideally anyways) because you're complaining people aren't voting for you. I got out worked by a guy with a really good team.

Lol...doesn't mean I like it, I do hate to lose at anything.