Author Topic: Jeff Green's potential?  (Read 23768 times)

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Re: Jeff Green's potential?
« Reply #75 on: July 31, 2012, 08:09:06 AM »

Offline Rondooooooooo

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with the group of guys we acquired, so many different options are available. who knows, if paul does regress a little green could take his spot some days in the starting lineup, or start paul at the 2 (kind of like avery bradley with ray allen). i doubt that much will happen but i'm sure we'll get a large enough look at him finally. I'm excited about his potential.
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Re: Jeff Green's potential?
« Reply #76 on: July 31, 2012, 08:13:14 AM »

Offline More Banners

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There are currently lots of role player SF's in the league who can defend, shoot the 3, and maybe do a little bit of scoring.  Guys like Batum, Ariza, Pietrus (a few years ago), Grant Hill a couple years ago, Luol Deng, Shane Battier, etc. types.  I think Jeff Green is right now in that class and has the potential to be the best in that class, but always will be below the better SFs who can do more like Iguodala, Granger, Pierce, Rudy Gay, etc.

I think the Luol Deng comparison is the best/closest, which would (imo) be consistent with Green being a great 3rd option on a contender.

Re: Jeff Green's potential?
« Reply #77 on: July 31, 2012, 08:15:16 AM »

Offline Rondooooooooo

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There are currently lots of role player SF's in the league who can defend, shoot the 3, and maybe do a little bit of scoring.  Guys like Batum, Ariza, Pietrus (a few years ago), Grant Hill a couple years ago, Luol Deng, Shane Battier, etc. types.  I think Jeff Green is right now in that class and has the potential to be the best in that class, but always will be below the better SFs who can do more like Iguodala, Granger, Pierce, Rudy Gay, etc.

I think the Luol Deng comparison is the best/closest, which would (imo) be consistent with Green being a great 3rd option on a contender.

i agree with maybe 3rd option part but green is not nearly as good a shooter as luol deng. very different players offensively as to what their strong suits are
"My name is Shaquille O'Neal, and Paul Pierce is the [expletive] truth. Quote me on that, and don't take nothing out. I knew he could play, but I didn't know he could play like this. Paul Pierce is the truth."

Re: Jeff Green's potential?
« Reply #78 on: July 31, 2012, 08:23:59 AM »

Online Roy H.

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There are currently lots of role player SF's in the league who can defend, shoot the 3, and maybe do a little bit of scoring.  Guys like Batum, Ariza, Pietrus (a few years ago), Grant Hill a couple years ago, Luol Deng, Shane Battier, etc. types.  I think Jeff Green is right now in that class and has the potential to be the best in that class, but always will be below the better SFs who can do more like Iguodala, Granger, Pierce, Rudy Gay, etc.

I think the Luol Deng comparison is the best/closest, which would (imo) be consistent with Green being a great 3rd option on a contender.

i agree with maybe 3rd option part but green is not nearly as good a shooter as luol deng. very different players offensively as to what their strong suits are

The funny thing about Deng is that early in his career, he was regarded as a very poor outside shooter.  It's only in the last few seasons that he's added that as a major weapon.


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Re: Jeff Green's potential?
« Reply #79 on: July 31, 2012, 08:30:25 AM »

Offline FatjohnReturns

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Out of all players who played in at least 30 games and played at least 25 minutes a game, Ray and KG (and Bass) are in the top 12 in the league for having the highest percentage of their shots assisted. In 2008 Ray was at 65%, now he's at 78%. KG was at 68%, now he's at 77%. They don't create their own shots very much anymore. They need those open looks, and Rondo gets them.

This is a chicken or egg argument.  In 2008, Rondo didn't have the ball as much as he does now.  He didn't get every outlet, he didn't control the ball as much as any point guard in basketball; in fact, he frequently got the ball over halfcourt and handed the ball off to either Ray or Pierce.  It's possible if Rondo controlled the offense in 2008 like he does now, the percentages of assisted baskets would've been the same in 2008 as it was last season.  It's impossible for one player to control the ball as much as Rondo does and not have players whose games are already built on being assisted not have their assisted percentages climb.


I'm not saying Ray's ability to create for himself haven't diminished.  That part of his game was never great to begin with but his ability to take his man off the dribble has severely diminished except after closeouts. Despite that, I think Ray was still very capable of creating jumpers for himself off screens or walking into a three after bringing the ball up. Those still haven't gone away but in the Celtics offense, they were basically put away.  Ray had some excellent games when Rondo was out last season.

In the Rondo/Ray dynamic, I think Rondo benefited from Ray more than vice versa.  When Ray ran around screens and hit really difficult jumpers off the catch, Rondo only played a minor role in Ray's basket.  Same for Pierce in many instances but both got precious assists.  Any competent point guard who was big enough not to be engulfed by his defender (not Nate Robinson) could've assisted Ray in those instances.  Ray didn't need Rondo but rather his own speed and good screeners.  Another thing is, Rondo's not really a drive and kick point guard, especially not for threes.  I wished he would do more of that.  My list of Rondo's favorite plays are, in no order 1) Alley-oops 2) getting a screen from Pierce at the circle, driving and then passing to Bass or Garnett on opposite side for a 2-pointer 3) pick and pop with Bass or Garnett.  Driving and kicking is way down on the list.  Ray said at his Heat press conference that the Heat offense might suit him more because of the all the drive and kicks.  That's an indication that that's not a major part of Rondo's repertoire.
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Re: Jeff Green's potential?
« Reply #80 on: July 31, 2012, 08:42:08 AM »

Offline Rondooooooooo

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There are currently lots of role player SF's in the league who can defend, shoot the 3, and maybe do a little bit of scoring.  Guys like Batum, Ariza, Pietrus (a few years ago), Grant Hill a couple years ago, Luol Deng, Shane Battier, etc. types.  I think Jeff Green is right now in that class and has the potential to be the best in that class, but always will be below the better SFs who can do more like Iguodala, Granger, Pierce, Rudy Gay, etc.

I think the Luol Deng comparison is the best/closest, which would (imo) be consistent with Green being a great 3rd option on a contender.

i agree with maybe 3rd option part but green is not nearly as good a shooter as luol deng. very different players offensively as to what their strong suits are

The funny thing about Deng is that early in his career, he was regarded as a very poor outside shooter.  It's only in the last few seasons that he's added that as a major weapon.

well yeah but i'm talkin about now comparisons.
"My name is Shaquille O'Neal, and Paul Pierce is the [expletive] truth. Quote me on that, and don't take nothing out. I knew he could play, but I didn't know he could play like this. Paul Pierce is the truth."

Re: Jeff Green's potential?
« Reply #81 on: July 31, 2012, 08:47:08 AM »

Online slamtheking

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I've never seen a guy so over analyzed on this site except Rondo.



Re: Jeff Green's potential?
« Reply #82 on: July 31, 2012, 08:49:52 AM »

Offline CelticsFanNC

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Do you know of a single person who honestly thought that the Big Three would still be viable title contenders in year 5 of a 3 year plan?   I don't.  Not a single one.

 What is the single biggest and  most important reason why they were still a viable title contenders a full two seasons after anyone thought they would be?  The development of Rajon Rondo into the NBA's premiere facilitator. 

Did a single person think Nash would be playing at the level he still is?  How about Duncan after some slowed years?  How have they managed without a Rondo?  Instead of saying Rondo is engineering their continued relevance, how about giving Pierce, Garnett and Ray some more credit.  That's all.  Sure they've slowed down but their craftiness, skill level and dedication to their jobs plays a big part in keeping them viable.  When Rondo's been out, these creaky future HOFs haven't exactly wilted.

More than Rondo, the single biggest player keeping the Celtics viable has been Garnett because while their offense has devolved into an inefficient machine the last three years, they've still been good to great because of their defense. Since Garnett is the biggest reason for the D, I think he deserves a pretty big share of the credit.

  Steve Nash is an anomaly and has only been half a player for almost a decade because he plays absolutely NO DEFENSE.  How many playoff series has he won?

  Duncan's situation is very similar to the Big Three's.  He is nowhere near the player he once was but he is still viable because they brought in younger player to play with him and he plays with an outstanding PG.

  KG (and Allen for that matter)cannot create his own shot.  Pierce can but not at anywhere near the level he once could.  They are scoring as efficiently as they are due to playing alongside the best facilitating PG in the NBA today.   I find it outrageous that anyone would even suggest otherwise.

  That doesn't mean KG and Pierce aren't still very valuable members of the Boston Celtics it only means they aren't the players they were a few years ago which to me isn't even debatable.  They can certainly have games and even stretches of the season where the resemble the players they once were but the problem with age is they cannot maintain that level of play consistently over the long haul.  They certainly had stretches of last season where they looked old, even too old to compete. 

Re: Jeff Green's potential?
« Reply #83 on: July 31, 2012, 09:08:34 AM »

Offline Interceptor

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  KG [...] cannot create his own shot.
Whoa there, hang on a second: who is the guy that I saw shooting over the top of everyone and their mother this past season? When KG is playing center down low, he gets so many easy shots (easy for him anyway) that it's kind of silly.

Re: Jeff Green's potential?
« Reply #84 on: July 31, 2012, 09:18:47 AM »

Offline Rondooooooooo

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  KG [...] cannot create his own shot.
Whoa there, hang on a second: who is the guy that I saw shooting over the top of everyone and their mother this past season? When KG is playing center down low, he gets so many easy shots (easy for him anyway) that it's kind of silly.

yeah idk what he's talkin about KG gets it in the post and 9/10 times he can make moves to the hoop and finish over other PFs. Not as much centers cause he's not a banger. But KG, given the ball in an advantageous, even not so advantageous, position he can score with the best of em, PFs that is. That hanging bank shot off of like 9 different shimmy shakes is gorgeous. Plus we just dump it out to him at his sweet 18 ft jumper and thats almost always money
"My name is Shaquille O'Neal, and Paul Pierce is the [expletive] truth. Quote me on that, and don't take nothing out. I knew he could play, but I didn't know he could play like this. Paul Pierce is the truth."

Re: Jeff Green's potential?
« Reply #85 on: July 31, 2012, 09:49:37 AM »

Offline ItStaysYang

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Rajon Rondo has extended the viability of Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen by getting them easier looks then they had ever gotten in their careers.

Rondo's singlehandedly extended the viability of Pierce, KG and Ray? Really?  They've been just fine when Rondo's been out.  It overrates Rondo and underrates everyone to say Rondo's been their puppet master.


  Do you know of a single person who honestly thought that the Big Three would still be viable title contenders in years 5 of a 3 years plan?   I don't.

 What is the single most important reason why they were still a viable title contender a full two seasons after anyone thought they would be?  The development of Rajon Rondo into the NBA premiere facilitator. 

  Puppet Master, no not really but he makes the players around him better by getting them easy looks exactly where they want them. 

  Is there anything incorrect about that?

NOPE! Your opinion is different from mine. Therefore it is wrong. Rondo is not a good player and that is a fact because he does not have a jumpshot and does not have as many highlight acrobatic layups/dunks as Derrick Rose.

Hahahahahaa ok buddy. Rondo is a point guard. Not a shooting guard playing point. He passes first. He is your favorite point guard's favorite point guard. Your opinion is dumb, therefore you should stop disgracing the second most valuable (in terms of what he brings to the table) player on the Celtics

*Continues to ignore what you say and keep talking trash and regurgitating ESPN junk*

Rondo ftw

Re: Jeff Green's potential?
« Reply #86 on: July 31, 2012, 09:58:23 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Another thing about Ray, his assisted percentage went from 46.9 percent in 2007 to 64.7 percent in his first with the Celtics.  That didn't happen because he lost the ability to create for himself in one offseason; obviously it was because his role was drastically changed.  I'm not arguing that Ray's ability to create for himself hasn't diminished but to say that he's had to rely largely on Rondo or else throughout his Celtics tenure is misrepresenting things.  It was the playcall of the offense.

  Nobody said that Ray had to rely on Rondo throughout his Celtic tenure. Just that Rondo's play has helped Ray be more successful the last couple of years when Ray's physical skills have deteriorated.

Re: Jeff Green's potential?
« Reply #87 on: July 31, 2012, 09:59:44 AM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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Rajon Rondo has extended the viability of Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen by getting them easier looks then they had ever gotten in their careers.

Rondo's singlehandedly extended the viability of Pierce, KG and Ray? Really?  They've been just fine when Rondo's been out.  It overrates Rondo and underrates everyone to say Rondo's been their puppet master.


  Do you know of a single person who honestly thought that the Big Three would still be viable title contenders in years 5 of a 3 years plan?   I don't.

 What is the single most important reason why they were still a viable title contender a full two seasons after anyone thought they would be?  The development of Rajon Rondo into the NBA premiere facilitator. 

  Puppet Master, no not really but he makes the players around him better by getting them easy looks exactly where they want them. 

  Is there anything incorrect about that?

NOPE! Your opinion is different from mine. Therefore it is wrong. Rondo is not a good player and that is a fact because he does not have a jumpshot and does not have as many highlight acrobatic layups/dunks as Derrick Rose.

Hahahahahaa ok buddy. Rondo is a point guard. Not a shooting guard playing point. He passes first. He is your favorite point guard's favorite point guard. Your opinion is dumb, therefore you should stop disgracing the second most valuable (in terms of what he brings to the table) player on the Celtics

*Continues to ignore what you say and keep talking trash and regurgitating ESPN junk*

Rondo ftw

It was all sarcasm by the way...hard to convey.