Jeff Green's potential?

[J_Mill35]

Players tend to improve until they are 25 and then peak from 25-30 and then decline

[ItStaysYang]

Rajon Rondo has extended the viability of Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen by getting them easier looks then they had ever gotten in their careers.

Rondo's singlehandedly extended the viability of Pierce, KG and Ray? Really?  They've been just fine when Rondo's been out.  It overrates Rondo and underrates everyone to say Rondo's been their puppet master.

  Do you know of a single person who honestly thought that the Big Three would still be viable title contenders in years 5 of a 3 years plan?   I don't.

 What is the single most important reason why they were still a viable title contender a full two seasons after anyone thought they would be?  The development of Rajon Rondo into the NBA premiere facilitator. 

  Puppet Master, no not really but he makes the players around him better by getting them easy looks exactly where they want them. 

  Is there anything incorrect about that?

NOPE! Your opinion is different from mine. Therefore it is wrong. Rondo is not a good player and that is a fact because he does not have a jumpshot and does not have as many highlight acrobatic layups/dunks as Derrick Rose.

Hahahahahaa ok buddy. Rondo is a point guard. Not a shooting guard playing point. He passes first. He is your favorite point guard's favorite point guard. Your opinion is dumb, therefore you should stop disgracing the second most valuable (in terms of what he brings to the table) player on the Celtics

[lightspeed5]

rondo doesnt have a jumpshot?

i wonder who scored 42 against the heat in game 2.

[billysan]

I would be really happy if Jeff Green managed to be our Tayshawn Prince someday. I love the guy but he is not a primary scorer. His future will be as a 3rd option starter with defensive skillz IMHO.

Probably never an all star either. 

[bfrombleacher]

Rajon Rondo has extended the viability of Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen by getting them easier looks then they had ever gotten in their careers.

Rondo's singlehandedly extended the viability of Pierce, KG and Ray? Really?  They've been just fine when Rondo's been out.  It overrates Rondo and underrates everyone to say Rondo's been their puppet master.

  Do you know of a single person who honestly thought that the Big Three would still be viable title contenders in years 5 of a 3 years plan?   I don't.

 What is the single most important reason why they were still a viable title contender a full two seasons after anyone thought they would be?  The development of Rajon Rondo into the NBA premiere facilitator. 

  Puppet Master, no not really but he makes the players around him better by getting them easy looks exactly where they want them. 

  Is there anything incorrect about that?

NOPE! Your opinion is different from mine. Therefore it is wrong. Rondo is not a good player and that is a fact because he does not have a jumpshot and does not have as many highlight acrobatic layups/dunks as Derrick Rose.

Hahahahahaa ok buddy. Rondo is a point guard. Not a shooting guard playing point. He passes first. He is your favorite point guard's favorite point guard. Your opinion is dumb, therefore you should stop disgracing the second most valuable (in terms of what he brings to the table) player on the Celtics

*Continues to ignore what you say and keep talking trash and regurgitating ESPN junk*

[BballTim]

Rajon Rondo has extended the viability of Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen by getting them easier looks then they had ever gotten in their careers.

Rondo's singlehandedly extended the viability of Pierce, KG and Ray? Really?  They've been just fine when Rondo's been out.  It overrates Rondo and underrates everyone to say Rondo's been their puppet master.  It's true that their efficiency has gone up during this period but couldn't that also be due to using fewer possessions, which tends to increase efficiency?  Ray and Pierce had a trackrecord of great efficiency even before coming together while KG's definitely benefited not from just Rondo but having multiple playmakers around him.

  Out of all players who played in at least 30 games and played at least 25 minutes a game, Ray and KG (and Bass) are in the top 12 in the league for having the highest percentage of their shots assisted. In 2008 Ray was at 65%, now he's at 78%. KG was at 68%, now he's at 77%. They don't create their own shots very much anymore. They need those open looks, and Rondo gets them.

  Also, using fewer possessions doesn't make you more efficient.

[2short]

Rajon Rondo has extended the viability of Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen by getting them easier looks then they had ever gotten in their careers.

Rondo's singlehandedly extended the viability of Pierce, KG and Ray? Really?  They've been just fine when Rondo's been out.  It overrates Rondo and underrates everyone to say Rondo's been their puppet master.  It's true that their efficiency has gone up during this period but couldn't that also be due to using fewer possessions, which tends to increase efficiency?  Ray and Pierce had a trackrecord of great efficiency even before coming together while KG's definitely benefited not from just Rondo but having multiple playmakers around him.

  Out of all players who played in at least 30 games and played at least 25 minutes a game, Ray and KG (and Bass) are in the top 12 in the league for having the highest percentage of their shots assisted. In 2008 Ray was at 65%, now he's at 78%. KG was at 68%, now he's at 77%. They don't create their own shots very much anymore. They need those open looks, and Rondo gets them.

  Also, using fewer possessions doesn't make you more efficient.

while i tend to not be a stat guy, that is a pretty good job finding the stat and its a good one
tp! 

[celticmania]

i think he's going to be a really good starter in 2 years.this season his numbers are going to look like this:

12.2 ppg
4.3 rpg
1.7 apg
1.0 spg
0.5 bpg
49%
37% 3's
80% free throws

[Galeto]

Out of all players who played in at least 30 games and played at least 25 minutes a game, Ray and KG (and Bass) are in the top 12 in the league for having the highest percentage of their shots assisted. In 2008 Ray was at 65%, now he's at 78%. KG was at 68%, now he's at 77%. They don't create their own shots very much anymore. They need those open looks, and Rondo gets them.

This is a chicken or egg argument.  In 2008, Rondo didn't have the ball as much as he does now.  He didn't get every outlet, he didn't control the ball as much as any point guard in basketball; in fact, he frequently got the ball over halfcourt and handed the ball off to either Ray or Pierce.  It's possible if Rondo controlled the offense in 2008 like he does now, the percentages of assisted baskets would've been the same in 2008 as it was last season.  It's impossible for one player to control the ball as much as Rondo does and not have players whose games are already built on being assisted not have their assisted percentages climb.


I'm not saying Ray's ability to create for himself haven't diminished.  That part of his game was never great to begin with but his ability to take his man off the dribble has severely diminished except after closeouts. Despite that, I think Ray was still very capable of creating jumpers for himself off screens or walking into a three after bringing the ball up. Those still haven't gone away but in the Celtics offense, they were basically put away.  Ray had some excellent games when Rondo was out last season.

In the Rondo/Ray dynamic, I think Rondo benefited from Ray more than vice versa.  When Ray ran around screens and hit really difficult jumpers off the catch, Rondo only played a minor role in Ray's basket.  Same for Pierce in many instances but both got precious assists.  Any competent point guard who was big enough not to be engulfed by his defender (not Nate Robinson) could've assisted Ray in those instances.  Ray didn't need Rondo but rather his own speed and good screeners.  Another thing is, Rondo's not really a drive and kick point guard, especially not for threes.  I wished he would do more of that.  My list of Rondo's favorite plays are, in no order 1) Alley-oops 2) getting a screen from Pierce at the circle, driving and then passing to Bass or Garnett on opposite side for a 2-pointer 3) pick and pop with Bass or Garnett.  Driving and kicking is way down on the list.  Ray said at his Heat press conference that the Heat offense might suit him more because of the all the drive and kicks.  That's an indication that that's not a major part of Rondo's repertoire.

[BballTim]

Out of all players who played in at least 30 games and played at least 25 minutes a game, Ray and KG (and Bass) are in the top 12 in the league for having the highest percentage of their shots assisted. In 2008 Ray was at 65%, now he's at 78%. KG was at 68%, now he's at 77%. They don't create their own shots very much anymore. They need those open looks, and Rondo gets them.

This is a chicken or egg argument.  In 2008, Rondo didn't have the ball as much as he does now.  He didn't get every outlet, he didn't control the ball as much as any point guard in basketball; in fact, he frequently got the ball over halfcourt and handed the ball off to either Ray or Pierce.  It's possible if Rondo controlled the offense in 2008 like he does now, the percentages of assisted baskets would've been the same in 2008 as it was last season.  It's impossible for one player to control the ball as much as Rondo does and not have players whose games are already built on being assisted not have their assisted percentages climb.


I'm not saying Ray's ability to create for himself haven't diminished.  That part of his game was never great to begin with but his ability to take his man off the dribble has severely diminished except after closeouts. Despite that, I think Ray was still very capable of creating jumpers for himself off screens or walking into a three after bringing the ball up. Those still haven't gone away but in the Celtics offense, they were basically put away.  Ray had some excellent games when Rondo was out last season.

In the Rondo/Ray dynamic, I think Rondo benefited from Ray more than vice versa.  When Ray ran around screens and hit really difficult jumpers off the catch, Rondo only played a minor role in Ray's basket.  Same for Pierce in many instances but both got precious assists.  Any competent point guard who was big enough not to be engulfed by his defender (not Nate Robinson) could've assisted Ray in those instances.  Ray didn't need Rondo but rather his own speed and good screeners.  Another thing is, Rondo's not really a drive and kick point guard, especially not for threes.  I wished he would do more of that.  My list of Rondo's favorite plays are, in no order 1) Alley-oops 2) getting a screen from Pierce at the circle, driving and then passing to Bass or Garnett on opposite side for a 2-pointer 3) pick and pop with Bass or Garnett.  Driving and kicking is way down on the list.  Ray said at his Heat press conference that the Heat offense might suit him more because of the all the drive and kicks.  That's an indication that that's not a major part of Rondo's repertoire.

  I disagree with most of this. One of Ray's biggest problems on offense is that he's unable to create much daylight coming off of screens. He needs the ball in just the right spot at just the right time or he won't even be able to attempt those difficult shots. Rondo's arguably the best passer in the league, that helps Ray a lot.

  Also, Rondo is a perfectly fine drive and kick pg. Look at all of the posts that we've seen here over the years complaining about Rondo passing up layups to get assists, those are drive and kick plays. The reason Miami's drive and kicks will suit Ray is because when LeBron drives he gets more attention from defenses than anyone else, Ray's hoping that will leave him wide open.

[action781]

There are currently lots of role player SF's in the league who can defend, shoot the 3, and maybe do a little bit of scoring.  Guys like Batum, Ariza, Pietrus (a few years ago), Grant Hill a couple years ago, Luol Deng, Shane Battier, etc. types.  I think Jeff Green is right now in that class and has the potential to be the best in that class, but always will be below the better SFs who can do more like Iguodala, Granger, Pierce, Rudy Gay, etc.

[xmuscularghandix]

Jeff Green has all the skill that Danny Granger has, he just doesn't have that aggressive (emotional) drive to just takeover a game. He could be an absolutely beautiful player if he looked to drop 20 on people.

[Galeto]

There are currently lots of role player SF's in the league who can defend, shoot the 3, and maybe do a little bit of scoring.  Guys like Batum, Ariza, Pietrus (a few years ago), Grant Hill a couple years ago, Luol Deng, Shane Battier, etc. types.  I think Jeff Green is right now in that class and has the potential to be the best in that class, but always will be below the better SFs who can do more like Iguodala, Granger, Pierce, Rudy Gay, etc.

Green has the potential to be a top notch wing role player but there's not a lot of actual on court evidence to put him in that category right now.  He has the physical tools and then some to be a plus perimeter defender but he hasn't spent much time defending 3s and when he has, he hasn't been all that good.  He did show flashes of defending Lebron and Melo well in the playoffs after the trade so the potential is definitely there but I wouldn't put rate his defense with the likes of Batum, Hill, Battier, Ariza, etc just yet..  Same with his shooting.  There's nothing wrong with his mechanics and he shot the three well his second year but for his career, he's a 33.7 percent three point shooter.

If he was a starter and featured as a 3, I think he would look a lot of Rudy Gay.  They have similar statistical profiles: below-average efficiency due to a lack of threes and free throws but not horrible percentages from the field; below-average passing; defense that's not as good as their physical ability.  I could see him putting up 19 points on 16 shots, averaging 6 boards and 2-3 assists, maybe being a borderline borderline all-star.

[mctyson]

Jeff Green could be the 3rd option on a championship team. He just hasn't shown that he can be much better than that.

We traded Kendrick Perkins for him.  He was never supposed to be much better than that, because if he was, it would have been the trade of the century.

[Galeto]

Another thing about Ray, his assisted percentage went from 46.9 percent in 2007 to 64.7 percent in his first with the Celtics.  That didn't happen because he lost the ability to create for himself in one offseason; obviously it was because his role was drastically changed.  I'm not arguing that Ray's ability to create for himself hasn't diminished but to say that he's had to rely largely on Rondo or else throughout his Celtics tenure is misrepresenting things.  It was the playcall of the offense.