OJ Mayo is signing with Dallas (Confirmed)

[celtsfan84]

PG: Darren Collison, Roddy Beaubois
SG: Vince Carter, OJ Mayo, Dominique Jones
SF: Shawn Marion, Jared Cunningham, Dahntay Jones
PF: Dirk Nowitzki, Elton Brand
C:  Chris Kaman, (Elton Brand), Brandan Wright

Dallas are secretly becoming a contender IMO

I don't think Kaman/Brand are going to be enough help for Dirk.

I see their team as being a bit better than last year.

Mayo is a slight upgrade over Terry, IMO.  Very similar traits, styles, and tendencies.  Mayo is just a bit taller and younger.

Collison is a serious upgrade over Kidd.  I love Kidd and he is a personal favorite player of mine, but 2012 Kidd is merely a role player.

Kaman and Haywood are about even.  One provides more defensive utility, one provides more offensive utility.

Brand is a serious upgrade over Mahinmi.  I don't think this one needs to be further explained.

Plus, they may get help from one of their young guys (Beaubois preferably).

I think a lack of interior (and overall) defense spells their doom, however.  This is a 6 seed with a chance to pull off a Round 1 upset, IMO.  But a nice rebound from a rocky start to the offseason.

[TripleOT]

Dallas is Dirk and a bunch of guys.  They're first round fodder in the West.  They have done a nice job putting together a competitive team with some cap room for next summer, if so desired, with only about $40m in guaranteed deals.  If they can move Marion at the deadline, with him having only one more year left on his deal, they'd be in even better shape. 

[Chris]

Dallas is Dirk and a bunch of guys.  They're first round fodder in the West.  They have done a nice job putting together a competitive team with some cap room for next summer, if so desired, with only about $40m in guaranteed deals.  If they can move Marion at the deadline, with him having only one more year left on his deal, they'd be in even better shape. 

Yeah, they aren't contenders unless Mayo suddenly finds himself and breaks out (unlikely).  But they did a nice job to stay competitive, while remaining flexible.  Thats something a lot of teams could learn from.

[Fafnir]

PG: Darren Collison, Roddy Beaubois
SG: Vince Carter, OJ Mayo, Dominique Jones
SF: Shawn Marion, Jared Cunningham, Dahntay Jones
PF: Dirk Nowitzki, Elton Brand
C:  Chris Kaman, (Elton Brand), Brandan Wright

Dallas are secretly becoming a contender IMO

I don't think Kaman/Brand are going to be enough help for Dirk.

I see their team as being a bit better than last year.

Mayo is a slight upgrade over Terry, IMO.  Very similar traits, styles, and tendencies.  Mayo is just a bit taller and younger.

He's also been a far worse player the past two years, extremely inefficient in the same role despite the youth and heigth. Though if Terry's declined continue they might be roughly equal.

I actually feel Kaman is a downgrade over Haywood, he's even slower and is just a bad offensive player most of the time who shoots more. Brand is an upgrade but he's another plodder and can't play big minutes anymore without blowing out his legs by mid-season.

If they're going to improve over last year its going to be Collison that does the heavy lifting.

[bfrombleacher]

PG: Darren Collison, Roddy Beaubois
SG: Vince Carter, OJ Mayo, Dominique Jones
SF: Shawn Marion, Jared Cunningham, Dahntay Jones
PF: Dirk Nowitzki, Elton Brand
C:  Chris Kaman, (Elton Brand), Brandan Wright

Dallas are secretly becoming a contender IMO

I don't think Kaman/Brand are going to be enough help for Dirk.

I see their team as being a bit better than last year.

Mayo is a slight upgrade over Terry, IMO.  Very similar traits, styles, and tendencies.  Mayo is just a bit taller and younger.

He's also been a far worse player the past two years, extremely inefficient in the same role despite the youth and heigth. Though if Terry's declined continue they might be roughly equal.

I actually feel Kaman is a downgrade over Haywood, he's even slower and is just a bad offensive player most of the time who shoots more. Brand is an upgrade but he's another plodder and can't play big minutes anymore without blowing out his legs by mid-season.

Do you think they're headed towards the Rockets of the past god knows how many years? Decent with a lot of solid players, but missing a difference maker(s)?

[celtsfan84]

PG: Darren Collison, Roddy Beaubois
SG: Vince Carter, OJ Mayo, Dominique Jones
SF: Shawn Marion, Jared Cunningham, Dahntay Jones
PF: Dirk Nowitzki, Elton Brand
C:  Chris Kaman, (Elton Brand), Brandan Wright

Dallas are secretly becoming a contender IMO

I don't think Kaman/Brand are going to be enough help for Dirk.

I see their team as being a bit better than last year.

Mayo is a slight upgrade over Terry, IMO.  Very similar traits, styles, and tendencies.  Mayo is just a bit taller and younger.

He's also been a far worse player the past two years, extremely inefficient in the same role despite the youth and heigth. Though if Terry's declined continue they might be roughly equal.

I actually feel Kaman is a downgrade over Haywood, he's even slower and is just a bad offensive player most of the time who shoots more. Brand is an upgrade but he's another plodder and can't play big minutes anymore without blowing out his legs by mid-season.

If they're going to improve over last year its going to be Collison that does the heavy lifting.

Mayo worse than Terry? Probably accurate.  I think far worse is a bit of a stretch.  Their numbers are pretty similar across the board.  And Mayo is a decade younger and a slightly better defender.

Mahnimi only averaged 19 minutes a game.  Brand doesn't exactly have to be iron man to match his production. 

The improvement will be slight, but they'll make the playoffs, turn a profit, and be a player in next year's offseason.  Sometimes it is best to bide your time.

[celtsfan84]

PG: Darren Collison, Roddy Beaubois
SG: Vince Carter, OJ Mayo, Dominique Jones
SF: Shawn Marion, Jared Cunningham, Dahntay Jones
PF: Dirk Nowitzki, Elton Brand
C:  Chris Kaman, (Elton Brand), Brandan Wright

Dallas are secretly becoming a contender IMO

I don't think Kaman/Brand are going to be enough help for Dirk.

I see their team as being a bit better than last year.

Mayo is a slight upgrade over Terry, IMO.  Very similar traits, styles, and tendencies.  Mayo is just a bit taller and younger.

He's also been a far worse player the past two years, extremely inefficient in the same role despite the youth and heigth. Though if Terry's declined continue they might be roughly equal.

I actually feel Kaman is a downgrade over Haywood, he's even slower and is just a bad offensive player most of the time who shoots more. Brand is an upgrade but he's another plodder and can't play big minutes anymore without blowing out his legs by mid-season.

Do you think they're headed towards the Rockets of the past god knows how many years? Decent with a lot of solid players, but missing a difference maker(s)?

No, I think they deserve more than one offseason to see if their ultimate plan was worth pursuing.  Cuban also has alluded often to the new CBA and avoiding the repeat taxpayer penalties.  If he can avoid the tax last year and this year, and catch a big fish in the next offseason, they'd be back on track.

Dallas, with Dirk, a recent championship, allegedly the best facilities in sports, a bigger market, and a great owner is a more desirable location than Houston.

[Fafnir]

PG: Darren Collison, Roddy Beaubois
SG: Vince Carter, OJ Mayo, Dominique Jones
SF: Shawn Marion, Jared Cunningham, Dahntay Jones
PF: Dirk Nowitzki, Elton Brand
C:  Chris Kaman, (Elton Brand), Brandan Wright

Dallas are secretly becoming a contender IMO

I don't think Kaman/Brand are going to be enough help for Dirk.

I see their team as being a bit better than last year.

Mayo is a slight upgrade over Terry, IMO.  Very similar traits, styles, and tendencies.  Mayo is just a bit taller and younger.

He's also been a far worse player the past two years, extremely inefficient in the same role despite the youth and heigth. Though if Terry's declined continue they might be roughly equal.

I actually feel Kaman is a downgrade over Haywood, he's even slower and is just a bad offensive player most of the time who shoots more. Brand is an upgrade but he's another plodder and can't play big minutes anymore without blowing out his legs by mid-season.

Do you think they're headed towards the Rockets of the past god knows how many years? Decent with a lot of solid players, but missing a difference maker(s)?

Not as long as they have Dirk.

He's a difference maker but they could easily miss the playoffs.

Rockets won't be in unless they get Howard. Minnesota/Utah will be pushing for spots again though the Suns are going to fall off the map and Portland is a wildcard if they actually do anything.

[Fafnir]

PG: Darren Collison, Roddy Beaubois
SG: Vince Carter, OJ Mayo, Dominique Jones
SF: Shawn Marion, Jared Cunningham, Dahntay Jones
PF: Dirk Nowitzki, Elton Brand
C:  Chris Kaman, (Elton Brand), Brandan Wright

Dallas are secretly becoming a contender IMO

I don't think Kaman/Brand are going to be enough help for Dirk.

I see their team as being a bit better than last year.

Mayo is a slight upgrade over Terry, IMO.  Very similar traits, styles, and tendencies.  Mayo is just a bit taller and younger.

He's also been a far worse player the past two years, extremely inefficient in the same role despite the youth and heigth. Though if Terry's declined continue they might be roughly equal.

I actually feel Kaman is a downgrade over Haywood, he's even slower and is just a bad offensive player most of the time who shoots more. Brand is an upgrade but he's another plodder and can't play big minutes anymore without blowing out his legs by mid-season.

If they're going to improve over last year its going to be Collison that does the heavy lifting.

Mayo worse than Terry? Probably accurate.  I think far worse is a bit of a stretch.  Their numbers are pretty similar across the board.  And Mayo is a decade younger and a slightly better defender.

Mahnimi only averaged 19 minutes a game.  Brand doesn't exactly have to be iron man to match his production. 

The improvement will be slight, but they'll make the playoffs, turn a profit, and be a player in next year's offseason.  Sometimes it is best to bide your time.

When you're a negative defender, a negative rebounder, and a negative possession creator then you better well score the ball at a good clip in your 6th man gunner role.

Terry did that last year and has done so for his career (though he's in decline). Mayo has been asked to play that role for two years and has been abysmal with TS% of .491 and .513.

Offensive role players shouldn't have a ORtg of 101

[celtsfan84]

PG: Darren Collison, Roddy Beaubois
SG: Vince Carter, OJ Mayo, Dominique Jones
SF: Shawn Marion, Jared Cunningham, Dahntay Jones
PF: Dirk Nowitzki, Elton Brand
C:  Chris Kaman, (Elton Brand), Brandan Wright

Dallas are secretly becoming a contender IMO

I don't think Kaman/Brand are going to be enough help for Dirk.

I see their team as being a bit better than last year.

Mayo is a slight upgrade over Terry, IMO.  Very similar traits, styles, and tendencies.  Mayo is just a bit taller and younger.

He's also been a far worse player the past two years, extremely inefficient in the same role despite the youth and heigth. Though if Terry's declined continue they might be roughly equal.

I actually feel Kaman is a downgrade over Haywood, he's even slower and is just a bad offensive player most of the time who shoots more. Brand is an upgrade but he's another plodder and can't play big minutes anymore without blowing out his legs by mid-season.

If they're going to improve over last year its going to be Collison that does the heavy lifting.

Mayo worse than Terry? Probably accurate.  I think far worse is a bit of a stretch.  Their numbers are pretty similar across the board.  And Mayo is a decade younger and a slightly better defender.

Mahnimi only averaged 19 minutes a game.  Brand doesn't exactly have to be iron man to match his production.  

The improvement will be slight, but they'll make the playoffs, turn a profit, and be a player in next year's offseason.  Sometimes it is best to bide your time.

When you're a negative defender, a negative rebounder, and a negative possession creator then you better well score the ball at a good clip in your 6th man gunner role.

Terry did that last year and has done so for his career (though he's in decline). Mayo has been asked to play that role for two years and has been abysmal with TS% of .491 and .513.

Offensive role players shouldn't have a ORtg of 101

I'm not so certain he is merely just an offensive role player though.  And if he is, Memphis didn't really seem to have that much of a defined role for him.  

There is some intriguing potential there.  He has a pretty wide skill set that might just need some refinement and a team that fits him.  Wonder why Danny is so in love with him if he is merely an abysmal offensive role player?

[Fafnir]

I'm not so certain he is merely just an offensive role player though.  And if he is, Memphis didn't really seem to have that much of a defined role for him.  

They tried him as their starting SG and he didn't make the team better, they were better off with Allen or another role player who was more complimentary to the rest of the team. He was a low level defender/rebounder at that position and merely average as an offensive threat.

Then he was moved into 3rd combo guard role and he couldn't do anything right for two entire years despite being in a position be the sort of "6th" man every team seems to want from their third guard.

Skill set, athleticism, and hype just haven't translated into high level play. He's been a 6th man combo guard and a bad one, he's very talented with "potential. But so were Randy Foye and Corey Brewer.

[celtsfan84]

I'm not so certain he is merely just an offensive role player though.  And if he is, Memphis didn't really seem to have that much of a defined role for him.  

They tried him as their starting SG and he didn't make the team better, they were better off with Allen or another role player who was more complimentary to the rest of the team. He was a low level defender/rebounder at that position and merely average as an offensive threat.

Then he was moved into 3rd combo guard role and he couldn't do anything right for two entire years despite being in a position be the sort of "6th" man every team seems to want from their third guard.

Skill set, athleticism, and hype just haven't translated into high level play. He's been a 6th man combo guard and a bad one, he's very talented with "potential. But so were Randy Foye and Corey Brewer.

He has a wider ranging skill set than both of those guys.  I'm not sure Brewer can even dribble.  And Foye has made a nice living in the NBA.

As you said, he doesn't fit into their starting lineup as Conley is their primary perimeter creator and Gay is their primary perimeter scorer, leaving him with no role in their lineup.  Playing with their weak bench doesn't allow him to put his skill set on display.  For instance, how would you like to run a pick and roll with Hamed Haddadi?  Jason Terry is famous for running pick and roll with Dirk.  I think it is easy to see why Terry got easier shots.

And I'm wondering again, why does Danny like him so much?

[Fafnir]

I'm not so certain he is merely just an offensive role player though.  And if he is, Memphis didn't really seem to have that much of a defined role for him.  

They tried him as their starting SG and he didn't make the team better, they were better off with Allen or another role player who was more complimentary to the rest of the team. He was a low level defender/rebounder at that position and merely average as an offensive threat.

Then he was moved into 3rd combo guard role and he couldn't do anything right for two entire years despite being in a position be the sort of "6th" man every team seems to want from their third guard.

Skill set, athleticism, and hype just haven't translated into high level play. He's been a 6th man combo guard and a bad one, he's very talented with "potential. But so were Randy Foye and Corey Brewer.

He has a wider ranging skill set than both of those guys.  I'm not sure Brewer can even dribble.  And Foye has made a nice living in the NBA.

As you said, he doesn't fit into their starting lineup as Conley is their primary perimeter creator and Gay is their primary perimeter scorer, leaving him with no role in their lineup.  Playing with their weak bench doesn't allow him to put his skill set on display.  For instance, how would you like to run a pick and roll with Hamed Haddadi?  Jason Terry is famous for running pick and roll with Dirk.  I think it is easy to see why Terry got easier shots.

And I'm wondering again, why does Danny like him so much?

So he isn't good enough to play with starters to utilize his talents, not enough of a role for him.

Then you move him to the bench and those guys aren't good enough for him to succeed. (and thus his substainal decline the last two years from an okay sophmore season).

Who the heck can he play with then if he can't play with starting level teammates or a bench unit?

As for your appeal to authority on the alter of Ainge, I don't know why Ainge likes him a lot. I think he like you sees a lot of unfufilled potential and figured that he's a gettable talent to run with Rondo.

I'm just not as optimistic that he'll figure it out ever and become a Mo Williams type of guy, he just hasn't shown that level of acumen.

[celtsfan84]

I'm not so certain he is merely just an offensive role player though.  And if he is, Memphis didn't really seem to have that much of a defined role for him.  

They tried him as their starting SG and he didn't make the team better, they were better off with Allen or another role player who was more complimentary to the rest of the team. He was a low level defender/rebounder at that position and merely average as an offensive threat.

Then he was moved into 3rd combo guard role and he couldn't do anything right for two entire years despite being in a position be the sort of "6th" man every team seems to want from their third guard.

Skill set, athleticism, and hype just haven't translated into high level play. He's been a 6th man combo guard and a bad one, he's very talented with "potential. But so were Randy Foye and Corey Brewer.

He has a wider ranging skill set than both of those guys.  I'm not sure Brewer can even dribble.  And Foye has made a nice living in the NBA.

As you said, he doesn't fit into their starting lineup as Conley is their primary perimeter creator and Gay is their primary perimeter scorer, leaving him with no role in their lineup.  Playing with their weak bench doesn't allow him to put his skill set on display.  For instance, how would you like to run a pick and roll with Hamed Haddadi?  Jason Terry is famous for running pick and roll with Dirk.  I think it is easy to see why Terry got easier shots.

And I'm wondering again, why does Danny like him so much?

So he isn't good enough to play with starters to utilize his talents, not enough of a role for him.

Then you move him to the bench and those guys aren't good enough for him to succeed. (and thus his substainal decline the last two years from an okay sophmore season).

Who the heck can he play with then if he can't play with starting level teammates or a bench unit?

As for your appeal to authority on the alter of Ainge, I don't know why Ainge likes him a lot. I think he like you sees a lot of unfufilled potential and figured that he's a gettable talent to run with Rondo.

I'm just not as optimistic that he'll figure it out ever and become a Mo Williams type of guy, he just hasn't shown that level of acumen.

How about a big man that can play pick and roll like Dirk?  Player skill sets and player attributes and "fit" on a team are far more complex than "Player A is a starter" "Player B is a bench player".  He needs to play with players that fit his skill set.  Simple.  Forget starter and bench designations.  Skill set and fit.

Every big man doesn't play the same way as Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph.  Both are mostly post players and need outside shooters to spread the floor for them.  Some big men (like KG, or Dirk, the guy that Terry played with, for instance), excel in pick and roll.  Not every team has backup big men as functionless as Memphis had.  

Saying that he isn't good enough to play with starters and doesn't receive enough help from a bench is a massive oversimplification.

The key is what types of players he fits with and what role he has with them.  Each Power Forward is different and ways that you can create with them are different.  Each Point Guard is different.  Each team's offense is different.  Each bench is different.  He doesn't fit in with Memphis.  That doesn't mean he fits nowhere.

Terry's role (beyond merely saying "6th man") was the primary pick and roll perimeter scorer for Dallas.  What was Mayo's?  Did he ever have one in Memphis?

[Kane3387]

Terry and KG will be NICE together on that pick and pop.