OJ Mayo is signing with Dallas (Confirmed)

[celtsfan84]

Terry and KG will be NICE together on that pick and pop.

Totally agree.  Just like Terry and Dirk.

Something that Mayo has never had.

[Fafnir]

How about a big man that can play pick and roll like Dirk?  Player skill sets and player attributes and "fit" on a team are far more complex than "Player A is a starter" "Player B is a bench player".  He needs to play with players that fit his skill set.  Simple.  Forget starter and bench designations.  Skill set and fit.

Every big man doesn't play the same way as Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph.  Both are mostly post players and need outside shooters to spread the floor for them.  Some big men (like KG, or Dirk, the guy that Terry played with, for instance), excel in pick and roll.  Not every team has backup big men as functionless as Memphis had.  

Saying that he isn't good enough to play with starters and doesn't receive enough help from a bench is a massive oversimplification.

The key is what types of players he fits with and what role he has with them.  Each Power Forward is different and ways that you can create with them are different.  Each Point Guard is different.  Each team's offense is different.  Each bench is different.  He doesn't fit in with Memphis.  That doesn't mean he fits nowhere.

Terry's role (beyond merely saying "6th man") was the primary pick and roll perimeter scorer for Dallas.  What was Mayo's?  Did he ever have one in Memphis?

So I guess he can only run the pick and roll and only run it with a HoF? Good pick and roll players are good pick and roll players, Terry was devasting with it before Dirk and when running it with other players as well.

A lot of excuses for a guy who's skill set is supposedly so varied.

His skill set is he's an undersize shooting guard who plays smaller on D and the glass. He can handle okay, he's a good shooter, and he's a great athlete. He's a disaster at the PG position though and has shown that repeatedly. He also hasn't translated his shooting into high level offensive player mostly due to poor decision making.

I'll have to check out the synergy pick and roll numbers, given his struggle as a PG I have my doubts about how well he runs it. He's just very turnover prone as a ball handler.

[celtsfan84]

How about a big man that can play pick and roll like Dirk?  Player skill sets and player attributes and "fit" on a team are far more complex than "Player A is a starter" "Player B is a bench player".  He needs to play with players that fit his skill set.  Simple.  Forget starter and bench designations.  Skill set and fit.

Every big man doesn't play the same way as Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph.  Both are mostly post players and need outside shooters to spread the floor for them.  Some big men (like KG, or Dirk, the guy that Terry played with, for instance), excel in pick and roll.  Not every team has backup big men as functionless as Memphis had.  

Saying that he isn't good enough to play with starters and doesn't receive enough help from a bench is a massive oversimplification.

The key is what types of players he fits with and what role he has with them.  Each Power Forward is different and ways that you can create with them are different.  Each Point Guard is different.  Each team's offense is different.  Each bench is different.  He doesn't fit in with Memphis.  That doesn't mean he fits nowhere.

Terry's role (beyond merely saying "6th man") was the primary pick and roll perimeter scorer for Dallas.  What was Mayo's?  Did he ever have one in Memphis?

So I guess he can only run the pick and roll and only run it with a HoF?

A lot of excuses for a guy who's skill set is supposedly so varied.

His skill set is he's an undersize shooting guard who plays smaller on D and the glass. He can handle okay, he's a good shooter, and he's a great athlete. He's a disaster at the PG position though and has shown that repeatedly. He also hasn't translated his shooting into high level offensive player mostly due to poor decision making.

I'll have to check out the synergy pick and roll numbers, given his struggle as a PG I have my doubts about how well he runs it. He's just very turnover prone as a ball handler.

Never said he needed a Hall of Famer to run pick and roll with.  A big man who runs pick and roll at all would be nice, nevermind at a Hall of Fame level (like Terry has).

Once again, you are oversimplifying here.  There is a big difference between a Hall of Famer like Dirk Nowitzki and a guy like Mo Speights.  There is a vast middle ground.  How about a guy like Haslem? Brandon Bass? Luis Scola? David Lee?  There are literally dozens and Mayo has played with none of them.

And saying a guy was simply a poor fit with a team isn't "a lot of excuses".  It happens in the NBA.

You do have Dirk in the Hall of Fame, right?  That's who Terry runs pick and roll with for the last several years.  Terry's numbers aren't overwhelming for a guy who's run pick and roll with a Hall of Fame big man for the last several year.

My feeling is the same as Danny's = put Mayo on a team that fits his skill set and has players that complement him and he will be successful.  Perhaps very successful.

[Fafnir]

Well given that Conley is a solid P&R scorer on par with Terry on the same team I have my doubts that "fit" is what will rescue OJ Mayo's game.

Just looked at the numbers and I don't see much indication that he's going to suddenly become a tremendous P&R threat.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

It see to me that the Celts cannot sign anyone that they want anymore.....what is going on.?

[KGs Knee]

It see to me that the Celts cannot sign anyone that they want anymore.....what is going on.?

Yeah, I guess adding that Jason Terry guy was all an illusion.

[Fafnir]

It see to me that the Celts cannot sign anyone that they want anymore.....what is going on.?

Yeah, I guess adding that Jason Terry guy was all an illusion.

As is the salary cap.

[celtsfan84]

Well given that Conley is a solid P&R scorer on par with Terry on the same team I have my doubts that "fit" is what will rescue OJ Mayo's game.

Just looked at the numbers and I don't see much indication that he's going to suddenly become a tremendous P&R threat.

Meaning if they have top pick and roll plays that they run, Conley gets to run them and not Mayo.  And if they have plays to get to the basket, Gay gets to run them and not Mayo.  His fit in Memphis was poor.  He just has no role on that team at all.  Unlike Terry, who was Dallas' primary pick and roll option with Dirk.

Once again, a Terry-Dirk pick and roll should trump a Conley-Randolph pick and roll and should trump a Mayo-Speights pick and roll.

As we already acknowledged, Dirk Nowitzki is going to the Hall of Fame.  I'd like to see Mayo given a role and given a chance to succeed before judging him a flop.

And by given a role, I don't mean someone saying to him "Hey, you're a 6th man now", I mean an actual role within an offense and defense, not a number.

Fit means everything.

[Fafnir]

Well given that Conley is a solid P&R scorer on par with Terry on the same team I have my doubts that "fit" is what will rescue OJ Mayo's game.

Just looked at the numbers and I don't see much indication that he's going to suddenly become a tremendous P&R threat.

Meaning if they have top pick and roll plays that they run, Conley gets to run them and not Mayo.  And if they have plays to get to the basket, Gay gets to run them and not Mayo.  His fit in Memphis was poor.  He just has no role on that team at all.  Unlike Terry, who was Dallas' primary pick and roll option with Dirk.

Huh? So now its that they don't call the right plays for him?

Mayo was the pick and roll ball handler a fairly large sample size (300ish for Conley  to 180ish Mayo IIRC) which give he played 9 MPG less tells you he had plenty of opportunities to run the pick roll in Memphis.

Here's the truth, he wasn't a good pick and roll player, the end.

As for his lack of a role, I guess playing 4th most minutes taking 3rd most shots is clearly a sign he wasn't given enough resposibility?

Dirk's a fantastic player but you're counting way too much on his HoF mojo rubbing off on a talented journeyman shooting guard.

[celtsfan84]

Well given that Conley is a solid P&R scorer on par with Terry on the same team I have my doubts that "fit" is what will rescue OJ Mayo's game.

Just looked at the numbers and I don't see much indication that he's going to suddenly become a tremendous P&R threat.

Meaning if they have top pick and roll plays that they run, Conley gets to run them and not Mayo.  And if they have plays to get to the basket, Gay gets to run them and not Mayo.  His fit in Memphis was poor.  He just has no role on that team at all.  Unlike Terry, who was Dallas' primary pick and roll option with Dirk.

Huh? So now its that they don't call the right plays for him?

Mayo was the pick and roll ball handler a fairly large sample size (300ish for Conley  to 180ish Mayo IIRC) which give he played 9 MPG less tells you he had plenty of opportunities to run the pick roll in Memphis.

Here's the truth, he wasn't a good pick and roll player, the end.

As for his lack of a role, I guess playing 4th most minutes taking 3rd most shots is clearly a sign he wasn't given enough resposibility?

Dirk's a fantastic player but you're counting way too much on his HoF mojo rubbing off on a talented journeyman shooting guard.

You seem not to understand what a role is.  Being given a number of minutes isn't being given a defined role or a function in an offense.  A defined role isn't telling a guy to just go out and play minutes.  That's ludicrous.  You seem not to understand what Mayo's role was in that offense, which tells you he didn't have one.

And to think that a player's pick and roll numbers wouldn't be enhanced by playing with a Hall of Fame teammate in said pick and roll is also ludicrous.

My advice is to put the advanced stats and pocket protector away and watch 1 Memphis game.  Advanced stats have all sorts of biases.  If they solved every problem, a mathematician would have Danny Ainge's job.  Ainge has his job because he can determine fit and a role.

I'm sorry, but this is no longer worth explaining.

[Fafnir]

His role has been two things:

1. Starting SG and scoring wing along with Gay, he failed at that as Conley/Gay developed and was demoted to:

2. Bench microwave scorer combo guard, used to provide perimeter offense and spacing for the post orientated offense with Gasol/Randolph. They'd have him pick and roll as well as try to create offense off the dribble when he had the ball.

He was so poor in this role and couldn't provide them any sort of shot creation that they dusted off Gilbert Arenas.....

My advice is to put the advanced stats and pocket protector away and watch 1 Memphis game.

I'm sorry, but this is no longer worth explaining.

I've watched a lot of Memphis since Allen went there and they exploded as a spoiler team. I also watched pretty much the entire playoffs with them.

But hey when the evidence don't support your POV then only insults will do I guess.

[celtsfan84]

His role has been two things:

1. Starting SG and scoring wing along with Gay, he failed at that as Conley/Gay developed and was demoted to:

2. Bench microwave scorer combo guard, used to provide perimeter offense and spacing for the post orientated offense with Gasol/Randolph. They'd have him pick and roll as well as try to create offense off the dribble when he had the ball.

He was so poor in this role and couldn't provide them any sort of shot creation that they dusted off Gilbert Arenas.....

My advice is to put the advanced stats and pocket protector away and watch 1 Memphis game.

I'm sorry, but this is no longer worth explaining.

I've watched a lot of Memphis since Allen went there and they exploded as a spoiler team. I also watched pretty much the entire playoffs with them.

But hey when the evidence don't support your POV then only insults will do I guess.

I'm still not seeing any evidence at all, to be honest with you.

And the bulk of your assumptions have been incorrect.  Arenas was signed because players like Josh Selby and Jeremy Pargo were not able to contribute, that signing had nothing to do with replacing Mayo or because Mayo didn't "pan out".

Tell me, if they signed Arenas because of Mayo's flaws, did Mayo's minutes see a noticeable decline when they signed Arenas?

And your answer tells me that he doesn't fit into their offense.  You yourself say that Conley and Gay pretty much had his role, leaving him with no role.

But if facts won't work, perhaps assumptions and invoking the name "Gilbert Arenas" will.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

It see to me that the Celts cannot sign anyone that they want anymore.....what is going on.?

Yeah, I guess adding that Jason Terry guy was all an illusion.

The cost = Ray Allen....or losing Ray allen was an illusion...to you..