Author Topic: I don't want Courtney Lee  (Read 11032 times)

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Re: I don't want Courtney Lee
« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2012, 02:28:08 AM »

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I never understood fascination with Lee. The grass isn't greener on the other side. We already have better version of Courtney Lee and his name is Avery Bradley. Another guy whom I hold in high regard Lee is Pietrus. Peaches is better than Lee. His defense alone makes him more valuable than Lee. And he's better shooter than Lee.
Get S&T Terry worked out. Give Pietrus a raise. Sign Tracy McGrady for depth.

Rondo, Terry, Bradley, Moore
Pierce, Green, Pietrus, McGrady, Joseph
Garnett, Bass, Wilcox, Johnson, Sullinger, Melo

Sorry, the stats don't suggest Pietrus is a better shooter. Lee has shot at least 40% from the field in all 4 of his seasons. Pietrus hasn't done that since 2009-2010; he hasn't shot as well from 3-pt range in the last few seasons, either. As said before, Lee has shot 40% from  the 3-pt line in 3 of his 4 seasons.

Don't get me wrong, Pietrus isn't washed up (at least not to me), but let's not say untrue statements about Lee just to make Pietrus look good. Personally, if we got both, I'd be happy.

I'm based off what is common knowledge around the NBA. Pietrus is known as a 3point specialist, and defensive stopper. Lee??

I guess it's what you define "common knowledge", now. It's already been mentioned that Lee shut down Ray in 2009 and was part of the reason we lost to the Magic in the playoffs. In his rookie year.

It's been said that trading him (and a lotta guys) off the Magic and breaking up that team that made the Finals was a bad idea.

More importantly, Lee wants to play here, provided circumstances (basically S+T for him directly or one with Terry that lets us give Lee the MLE) allow it. I'm not sure where you were going with your "grass isn't greener on the other side" analogy, but if Lee will give it his all with us, I'm sure he can make our "grass" much greener than it already is.

I think you are giving Courtney Lee too much Credit. Kobe absolutely torched him in the finals. Ray in that series had his usual playoffs disappearance. It's a yearly ritual where Judas hibernates for a series or two.

Garnett injury changed the landscape in the East that year. As we have come to find out Cleveland Cavalier were pretenders. Once Magic got past Celtics, it was an easy road to the finals. Orlando Magic were an opportunistic team.

Magic downfall wasn't because of rookie got traded. Although they got the best in that deal. Ryan Anderson>Courtney Lee. The ship began to sink, Hedo Turkoglu glue guy headed north to Tornoto through FA. Lewis got caught juicing, and promptly suspended. He hasn't been the same since. Jameer Nelson rapid decline. And GM Otis Smith playing monopoly with the roster acquiring washed up players.
 
Grass isn't greener on the other side is an analogy for Pietrus>Lee. He is the better player imo. Peaches knows the system. And he is affordable.

Re: I don't want Courtney Lee
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2012, 03:20:58 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I never understood fascination with Lee. The grass isn't greener on the other side. We already have better version of Courtney Lee and his name is Avery Bradley. Another guy whom I hold in high regard Lee is Pietrus. Peaches is better than Lee. His defense alone makes him more valuable than Lee. And he's better shooter than Lee.
Get S&T Terry worked out. Give Pietrus a raise. Sign Tracy McGrady for depth.

Rondo, Terry, Bradley, Moore
Pierce, Green, Pietrus, McGrady, Joseph
Garnett, Bass, Wilcox, Johnson, Sullinger, Melo

Sorry, the stats don't suggest Pietrus is a better shooter. Lee has shot at least 40% from the field in all 4 of his seasons. Pietrus hasn't done that since 2009-2010; he hasn't shot as well from 3-pt range in the last few seasons, either. As said before, Lee has shot 40% from  the 3-pt line in 3 of his 4 seasons.

Don't get me wrong, Pietrus isn't washed up (at least not to me), but let's not say untrue statements about Lee just to make Pietrus look good. Personally, if we got both, I'd be happy.

I'm based off what is common knowledge around the NBA. Pietrus is known as a 3point specialist, and defensive stopper. Lee??

I guess it's what you define "common knowledge", now. It's already been mentioned that Lee shut down Ray in 2009 and was part of the reason we lost to the Magic in the playoffs. In his rookie year.

It's been said that trading him (and a lotta guys) off the Magic and breaking up that team that made the Finals was a bad idea.

More importantly, Lee wants to play here, provided circumstances (basically S+T for him directly or one with Terry that lets us give Lee the MLE) allow it. I'm not sure where you were going with your "grass isn't greener on the other side" analogy, but if Lee will give it his all with us, I'm sure he can make our "grass" much greener than it already is.

I think you are giving Courtney Lee too much Credit. Kobe absolutely torched him in the finals. Ray in that series had his usual playoffs disappearance. It's a yearly ritual where Judas hibernates for a series or two.

Garnett injury changed the landscape in the East that year. As we have come to find out Cleveland Cavalier were pretenders. Once Magic got past Celtics, it was an easy road to the finals. Orlando Magic were an opportunistic team.

Magic downfall wasn't because of rookie got traded. Although they got the best in that deal. Ryan Anderson>Courtney Lee. The ship began to sink, Hedo Turkoglu glue guy headed north to Tornoto through FA. Lewis got caught juicing, and promptly suspended. He hasn't been the same since. Jameer Nelson rapid decline. And GM Otis Smith playing monopoly with the roster acquiring washed up players.
 
Grass isn't greener on the other side is an analogy for Pietrus>Lee. He is the better player imo. Peaches knows the system. And he is affordable.

I agree with most of what you say here.  Orlando's fall had very little to do with Lee being traded (although his replacement, Vince Carter, was terrible).

That being said, both Pietrus and Lee were on that Finals team, and to my recollection, Lee was the more substantial contributer.

At this point, Lee is still on the upswing in his career tragectory while Pietrus has to be considered on the downswing.  For what it's worth, I like Pietrus, I just like Lee more.

Re: I don't want Courtney Lee
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2012, 12:35:03 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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Lee's value = AB insurance, possible third guard with AB and Rondo in future years (assuming JET decline.)

Let's say DA pull a S&T for JET with Dallas.

If the choice is sign Steis for $2.5m and bring back Posey. With BAE and 50% of MLE to use during the season or bring in Lee, and sign a vet minimum C.... I'd call it a push.

If we can do:

Get LEE (MLE), Steis (BAE) I'll also be pretty happy. Right now we need a part time C behind KG. We have KG, a project in Melo and PFs for bigs. Trouble against a team with size.

And who has troublesome size besides the Lakers?

The nets

Brook Lopez is one of the worst rebounding centers ever for his size, and that intimidating size will take a huge hit if Humphries leaves, which looks more and more probable now that the Nets have used their money on D-Will, JJ, Lopez, and Wallace.

Worst rebounding bigs ever? No way.

But I misread the initial comment, I thought you meant on the wings.

Teams with bigs who would trouble us:

Lakers
Wizards
Whatever team gets Howard
Knicks, if STAT ever gets healthy again
Okc
Pacers
Jazz
Spurs

And on the outside, the Pistons Nets and Warriors

They all have one or two guys we really can't defend at a high level, or defenders to limit and dissuade out bigs and wings.

Edit: and Memphis too, knew I missed one.

If the Pacers frontcourt was that good, how come they didn't beat a Miami team that had no one in frontcourt even remotely good compared to the Pacers' frontcourt? Hibbert and David West should have been able to rip apart Ronny Turiaf and Joel Anthony, no?

OKC has only defensive stalwarts. I like Collison and even Mohammad as their back-ups but offensively no one in that frontcourt scares me. Besides, don't you remember watching Perkins getting outplayed by Ilgauskas in 2008 because he couldn't cover perimeter bigs to save his life and Ilgauskas was constantly getting wide open shots?

Nene and Okafor have yet to play a game together. Let's wait and see how good they are. I like those two, but they are above average players, not stars. Oh and Blatche is as good as gone.

Chandler and Stoudemire do not work well together in the frontcourt, even if they are two of the best on completely opposite sides of the court. Camby was a good addition but there's no telling whether or not he won't get injured considering his history.

The Jazz have a good trio of Jefferson, Favors, and Millsap, but the only one you could argue that is elite is Jefferson. Millsap is very finesse and I'd like to have a guy like him on the Cs (Sullinger?). Favors is still raw.

The Spurs have a great frontcourt primarily because they have Tim Duncan. Splitter and Diaw work well with Duncan, but the Thunder showed the world they could be stopped.

All the teams you mentioned have good size. I'm not disagreeing with that, but the only two frontcourts I would take over KG and Bass are Gasol/Bynum and other Gasol/Z-Bo. All the other ones aren't as good. It's only the Lakers and the Grizzlies that make me think, "Oh crap, their size can kill us!"

BTW you forgot the Clippers.

Re: I don't want Courtney Lee
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2012, 01:13:19 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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If the Pacers frontcourt was that good, how come they didn't beat a Miami team that had no one in frontcourt even remotely good compared to the Pacers' frontcourt? Hibbert and David West should have been able to rip apart Ronny Turiaf and Joel Anthony, no?

They should have been able to, yes. They didn't. Don't really have an answer.

Quote
OKC has only defensive stalwarts. I like Collison and even Mohammad as their back-ups but offensively no one in that frontcourt scares me. Besides, don't you remember watching Perkins getting outplayed by Ilgauskas in 2008 because he couldn't cover perimeter bigs to save his life and Ilgauskas was constantly getting wide open shots?

Defensively is where they're good, I agree. That's why I threw them up there.

Quote
Nene and Okafor have yet to play a game together. Let's wait and see how good they are. I like those two, but they are above average players, not stars. Oh and Blatche is as good as gone.

Blatche is a net negative anyways. I put the Wiz up there because we don't have anyone who can check Nene on the roster. Not that Nene is the type of guy who can take over a game or anything, or that I think the Wiz could beat us in a regular season series. Just that the size there should be a hurdle.

Quote
Chandler and Stoudemire do not work well together in the frontcourt, even if they are two of the best on completely opposite sides of the court. Camby was a good addition but there's no telling whether or not he won't get injured considering his history.

Yeah, they didn't seem to work well together, but there was an awful lot of..stuff..going on with that Knicks team. Aside from maybe the Nets and on the outside the Rockets, there isn't a team out there who has more to gain and more to lose by being mediocre again. I like STAT, hope he gets healthy and figures it out. If he does, there isn't a whole lot we can do about it.

Quote
The Jazz have a good trio of Jefferson, Favors, and Millsap, but the only one you could argue that is elite is Jefferson. Millsap is very finesse and I'd like to have a guy like him on the Cs (Sullinger?). Favors is still raw.

Millsap was an all-star caliber player for most of last season, and we don't have a guy on the roster who is a favorable matchup with Jefferson. Again though, the Jazz aren't a real threat to us, just their bigs could give us fits from time to time.

Quote
The Spurs have a great frontcourt primarily because they have Tim Duncan. Splitter and Diaw work well with Duncan, but the Thunder showed the world they could be stopped.

Yeah, for sure. That's all true but again, it doesn't mean our bigs get the better matchup there.

Quote
All the teams you mentioned have good size. I'm not disagreeing with that, but the only two frontcourts I would take over KG and Bass are Gasol/Bynum and other Gasol/Z-Bo. All the other ones aren't as good. It's only the Lakers and the Grizzlies that make me think, "Oh crap, their size can kill us!"

BTW you forgot the Clippers.

Clippers I actually don't fear until Griffin takes a big step forward with his game.

But like I said in my post, I considered those teams that could 'give us trouble'.

As far as 'switching frontcourts', I guess the Lakers, and maybe a handful of other teams, but really I like our frontcourt. Unless its Dwight Howard coming back, I'm not really pumped about it.

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Re: I don't want Courtney Lee
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2012, 01:13:44 PM »

Offline Reyquila

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All celtic fans have to approve our geting Courtney Lee or else he cant be brought in?
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Remember that you were a friend of mine

Re: I don't want Courtney Lee
« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2012, 01:33:29 PM »

Offline AshyLarry

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If we ended up keeping the pick, signing Joseph and Christmas, and rounding out with vet players, thatd be cool.

But Lee would be a lot cooler. It's be nice to have a legitimate starting 2 guard.

well, technically bradleys proven to be a legit starting 2 guard from his play last year.

only thing that would be concerning to me is the size of our shooting guards 6.2

thats where Lee is helpful...hes 6.6 and can guard the bigger 2's out there


I agree about Bradley but for the sake of argument, can you really call a guy a 'legit starting' anything with less than half a season 1 experience under their belt?

I meant legit as in traditional. Bradley is 6'2, with an unorthodox game, while Lee is 6'6 with anything but unorthodox. Painfully traditional even. If you look up 'average starting role player shooting guard' there is a picture of Courtney lee and Doug Christie there.

The best players in the league are the ones with unorthodox games, and a spectacular talent of sorts. But Courtney Lee's traditional solid-very good game will fit in perfectamundo.
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Re: I don't want Courtney Lee
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2012, 02:00:18 PM »

Offline cman88

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Pietrus is only 30Y/o...its not like hes some ancient player...I would be perfectly happy with him back. Lets remember Doc was going to put him in the starting lineup before his concussion/bradleys emergence.

he could easily slip into the starting unit until Bradley comes back...a 2 guard rotation of Bradley/Terry/Pietrus isnt too shabby