This is Rondos year! 2012-13 nba MVP!

[BballTim]

Nah.

When Nash won those MVP's he was getting as many assists as Rondo, but also scoring 17-19 a night while shooting RIDICULOUS percentages of 50%/44%/90% ... Rondo is a great point guard, but he's completely unreliable on the offensive end.  He can pass and play solid defense.. and run an offense as well as anyone in the league... but he lacks the ability to create his own shot or score consistently... a skill that point guards (equal to him in playmaking) like Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Nash have.... and point guards (less than him in playmaking) like Rose and Westbrook also have.

Rondo did have an amazing playoff this year, though.  But he's had huge series in the past (2009 comes to mind) that didn't translate to huge regular seasons. 

The idea that Rondo can not create his own shot is absurd. I would say "did you watch the playoofs?", but since you mentioned them in your post I know you did which leaves me wondering what you are talking about. It is true that he doesnt score in the high teens consistently but I believe it is commonly recognized around the league that he doesn't try to score big every night- only when it is needed. Steve Nash has never averaged more assists in a season than Rondo did this year. The most he ever averaged was 11.6. Paul, Williams, despite being very good playmakers, are nowhere close to Rondo as far as being a set-up man.

Rondo's best:  11.9 points, 11.7 assists 45%/24%/60%
Nash's best:  18.6 points, 11.6 assists 53%/45%/90%
Paul's best:  22.8 points, 11 assists  50%/36%/87%
Deron's best:  18.8 points, 10.5 assists, 51%/40%/80%

You figure if Chris Paul is scoring 22.8 points and 11 assists... that' means he's minimum responsible for 44.8 points per night, right?  Likely more if his teammates are scoring threes.   If rondo is getting 11.9 and 11.7... that means he's minimum responsible for 35.3 points per night.   

Do you get my point?  All of those guys are more consistent scorers than Rondo.  If they only needed to score 12 a night, they could easily get more than 11 assists.  They already proved capable of getting 11 assists while scoring far more consistently than ROndo likely ever will be able. 

  So you're saying that if you look at the stats for these guys, when their scoring goes down their assists go up?

You can't possibly say that Rondo's 11.7 assists is more impressive than Nash's 11.6 assists.  That's just ignorant.  Nash scored 18.6 points, because his shooting percentages were RIDICULOUS 53%/45%/90%... If he was a subpar scorer like Rondo, then he presumably would have taken less shots (or he'd be a detriment to his team)... in which case, he would have made up for the shots by using offensive possessions to rack up more assists... and thus... would have averaged more assists than Rondo did last year.  The point is that as the hall of famers fade away from the Celtics, Rondo will be asked to score the ball more.  If he's asked to score the ball more that means he'll be taking more shots.  If he's taking more shots that mean's less offensive possessions to get assists.  Less offensive possessions to get assists = less assists.  This isn't rocket surgery.

  That would mean that Rondo gets a lot fewer assists a game in the playoffs, when he takes significantly more shots? It might not be rocket surgery, but clearly things a little more complicated than you think they are.

Tim... I already know what you are alluding to.  I smell the bait.  I made the statement that if Rondo scored more/took more shots/used offensive possessions to take more shots... his assists would go down.

I already know your rebuttal will be to point out that Rondo took more shots in the playoffs and scored more points (17.3) while averaging more assists (11.9) and thus believe you are proving me wrong. 

  So you're claiming that you already know what I've already said? Exciting. But did you already know that I was asking you to back up your claim that when Deron, Nash and CP3 score less their assist totals go up? It's in the post as well, I guess you psychic ability needs a little fine tuning.

Nope.  That's not what you were going for.  But nice try. 

  It's exactly what I said:

  "So you're saying that if you look at the stats for these guys, when their scoring goes down their assists go up?"

  I just made it into a seperate response because you clearly ignored it the first time. But nice try.

[LarBrd33]

Nah.

When Nash won those MVP's he was getting as many assists as Rondo, but also scoring 17-19 a night while shooting RIDICULOUS percentages of 50%/44%/90% ... Rondo is a great point guard, but he's completely unreliable on the offensive end.  He can pass and play solid defense.. and run an offense as well as anyone in the league... but he lacks the ability to create his own shot or score consistently... a skill that point guards (equal to him in playmaking) like Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Nash have.... and point guards (less than him in playmaking) like Rose and Westbrook also have.

Rondo did have an amazing playoff this year, though.  But he's had huge series in the past (2009 comes to mind) that didn't translate to huge regular seasons. 

The idea that Rondo can not create his own shot is absurd. I would say "did you watch the playoofs?", but since you mentioned them in your post I know you did which leaves me wondering what you are talking about. It is true that he doesnt score in the high teens consistently but I believe it is commonly recognized around the league that he doesn't try to score big every night- only when it is needed. Steve Nash has never averaged more assists in a season than Rondo did this year. The most he ever averaged was 11.6. Paul, Williams, despite being very good playmakers, are nowhere close to Rondo as far as being a set-up man.

Rondo's best:  11.9 points, 11.7 assists 45%/24%/60%
Nash's best:  18.6 points, 11.6 assists 53%/45%/90%
Paul's best:  22.8 points, 11 assists  50%/36%/87%
Deron's best:  18.8 points, 10.5 assists, 51%/40%/80%

You figure if Chris Paul is scoring 22.8 points and 11 assists... that' means he's minimum responsible for 44.8 points per night, right?  Likely more if his teammates are scoring threes.   If rondo is getting 11.9 and 11.7... that means he's minimum responsible for 35.3 points per night.   

Do you get my point?  All of those guys are more consistent scorers than Rondo.  If they only needed to score 12 a night, they could easily get more than 11 assists.  They already proved capable of getting 11 assists while scoring far more consistently than ROndo likely ever will be able. 

  So you're saying that if you look at the stats for these guys, when their scoring goes down their assists go up?

You can't possibly say that Rondo's 11.7 assists is more impressive than Nash's 11.6 assists.  That's just ignorant.  Nash scored 18.6 points, because his shooting percentages were RIDICULOUS 53%/45%/90%... If he was a subpar scorer like Rondo, then he presumably would have taken less shots (or he'd be a detriment to his team)... in which case, he would have made up for the shots by using offensive possessions to rack up more assists... and thus... would have averaged more assists than Rondo did last year.  The point is that as the hall of famers fade away from the Celtics, Rondo will be asked to score the ball more.  If he's asked to score the ball more that means he'll be taking more shots.  If he's taking more shots that mean's less offensive possessions to get assists.  Less offensive possessions to get assists = less assists.  This isn't rocket surgery.

  That would mean that Rondo gets a lot fewer assists a game in the playoffs, when he takes significantly more shots? It might not be rocket surgery, but clearly things a little more complicated than you think they are.

Tim... I already know what you are alluding to.  I smell the bait.  I made the statement that if Rondo scored more/took more shots/used offensive possessions to take more shots... his assists would go down.

I already know your rebuttal will be to point out that Rondo took more shots in the playoffs and scored more points (17.3) while averaging more assists (11.9) and thus believe you are proving me wrong. 

  So you're claiming that you already know what I've already said? Exciting. But did you already know that I was asking you to back up your claim that when Deron, Nash and CP3 score less their assist totals go up? It's in the post as well, I guess you psychic ability needs a little fine tuning.

Nope.  That's not what you were going for.  But nice try. 

  It's exactly what I said:

  "So you're saying that if you look at the stats for these guys, when their scoring goes down their assists go up?"

  I just made it into a seperate response because you clearly ignored it the first time. But nice try.

No I'm telling you that Rondo gets so many assists, because he can't can't score as well as the other great point guards who are better than him overall.  If he tried to start scoring 20 a night (as those other point guards do effortlessly), he wouldn't lead the league in assists.  Unless a player is truly elite (Nash in his prime... Chris Paul), you can't have it both ways.

[CelticG1]

Nah.

When Nash won those MVP's he was getting as many assists as Rondo, but also scoring 17-19 a night while shooting RIDICULOUS percentages of 50%/44%/90% ... Rondo is a great point guard, but he's completely unreliable on the offensive end.  He can pass and play solid defense.. and run an offense as well as anyone in the league... but he lacks the ability to create his own shot or score consistently... a skill that point guards (equal to him in playmaking) like Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Nash have.... and point guards (less than him in playmaking) like Rose and Westbrook also have.

Rondo did have an amazing playoff this year, though.  But he's had huge series in the past (2009 comes to mind) that didn't translate to huge regular seasons. 

The idea that Rondo can not create his own shot is absurd. I would say "did you watch the playoofs?", but since you mentioned them in your post I know you did which leaves me wondering what you are talking about. It is true that he doesnt score in the high teens consistently but I believe it is commonly recognized around the league that he doesn't try to score big every night- only when it is needed. Steve Nash has never averaged more assists in a season than Rondo did this year. The most he ever averaged was 11.6. Paul, Williams, despite being very good playmakers, are nowhere close to Rondo as far as being a set-up man.

Rondo's best:  11.9 points, 11.7 assists 45%/24%/60%
Nash's best:  18.6 points, 11.6 assists 53%/45%/90%
Paul's best:  22.8 points, 11 assists  50%/36%/87%
Deron's best:  18.8 points, 10.5 assists, 51%/40%/80%

You figure if Chris Paul is scoring 22.8 points and 11 assists... that' means he's minimum responsible for 44.8 points per night, right?  Likely more if his teammates are scoring threes.   If rondo is getting 11.9 and 11.7... that means he's minimum responsible for 35.3 points per night.   

Do you get my point?  All of those guys are more consistent scorers than Rondo.  If they only needed to score 12 a night, they could easily get more than 11 assists.  They already proved capable of getting 11 assists while scoring far more consistently than ROndo likely ever will be able. 

  So you're saying that if you look at the stats for these guys, when their scoring goes down their assists go up?

You can't possibly say that Rondo's 11.7 assists is more impressive than Nash's 11.6 assists.  That's just ignorant.  Nash scored 18.6 points, because his shooting percentages were RIDICULOUS 53%/45%/90%... If he was a subpar scorer like Rondo, then he presumably would have taken less shots (or he'd be a detriment to his team)... in which case, he would have made up for the shots by using offensive possessions to rack up more assists... and thus... would have averaged more assists than Rondo did last year.  The point is that as the hall of famers fade away from the Celtics, Rondo will be asked to score the ball more.  If he's asked to score the ball more that means he'll be taking more shots.  If he's taking more shots that mean's less offensive possessions to get assists.  Less offensive possessions to get assists = less assists.  This isn't rocket surgery.

  That would mean that Rondo gets a lot fewer assists a game in the playoffs, when he takes significantly more shots? It might not be rocket surgery, but clearly things a little more complicated than you think they are.

Tim... I already know what you are alluding to.  I smell the bait.  I made the statement that if Rondo scored more/took more shots/used offensive possessions to take more shots... his assists would go down.

I already know your rebuttal will be to point out that Rondo took more shots in the playoffs and scored more points (17.3) while averaging more assists (11.9) and thus believe you are proving me wrong. 

  So you're claiming that you already know what I've already said? Exciting. But did you already know that I was asking you to back up your claim that when Deron, Nash and CP3 score less their assist totals go up? It's in the post as well, I guess you psychic ability needs a little fine tuning.

Nope.  That's not what you were going for.  But nice try. 

Bottom line... if Rondo continues playing as amazing as he did in the playoffs (we can all hope), he'll end up averaging 15 points and 10 assists (his huge playoff numbers adjusted to 37 minutes).  That's more points and less assists.  I don't think he has it in him to drop 20 and 11 like the superstars. He's still a very good point guard... unquestionably top 6 in the league at this point.  And he's probably going to be in Boston for a long time... so no need for anyone to throw away their Rondo bed sheets or anything.

Ummm what superstars? These superstars?

2007-2009 chris paul

4 seasons in the 60's oscar robertson

83-85 isaih thomas

88-89 - kevin Johnson

3 season magic Johnson

There's the list of the entire NBA existence of players averaging 20 and 11 so thats just a really bizarre comment on your part. This doesn't even take into account pace of play or things like that in which case the Celtics I'm sure at the very bottom compared to the teams these guys played on and these guys I'm positive played more minutes than Rondo as well.

[LarBrd33]

Nah.

When Nash won those MVP's he was getting as many assists as Rondo, but also scoring 17-19 a night while shooting RIDICULOUS percentages of 50%/44%/90% ... Rondo is a great point guard, but he's completely unreliable on the offensive end.  He can pass and play solid defense.. and run an offense as well as anyone in the league... but he lacks the ability to create his own shot or score consistently... a skill that point guards (equal to him in playmaking) like Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Nash have.... and point guards (less than him in playmaking) like Rose and Westbrook also have.

Rondo did have an amazing playoff this year, though.  But he's had huge series in the past (2009 comes to mind) that didn't translate to huge regular seasons. 

The idea that Rondo can not create his own shot is absurd. I would say "did you watch the playoofs?", but since you mentioned them in your post I know you did which leaves me wondering what you are talking about. It is true that he doesnt score in the high teens consistently but I believe it is commonly recognized around the league that he doesn't try to score big every night- only when it is needed. Steve Nash has never averaged more assists in a season than Rondo did this year. The most he ever averaged was 11.6. Paul, Williams, despite being very good playmakers, are nowhere close to Rondo as far as being a set-up man.

Rondo's best:  11.9 points, 11.7 assists 45%/24%/60%
Nash's best:  18.6 points, 11.6 assists 53%/45%/90%
Paul's best:  22.8 points, 11 assists  50%/36%/87%
Deron's best:  18.8 points, 10.5 assists, 51%/40%/80%

You figure if Chris Paul is scoring 22.8 points and 11 assists... that' means he's minimum responsible for 44.8 points per night, right?  Likely more if his teammates are scoring threes.   If rondo is getting 11.9 and 11.7... that means he's minimum responsible for 35.3 points per night.   

Do you get my point?  All of those guys are more consistent scorers than Rondo.  If they only needed to score 12 a night, they could easily get more than 11 assists.  They already proved capable of getting 11 assists while scoring far more consistently than ROndo likely ever will be able. 

  So you're saying that if you look at the stats for these guys, when their scoring goes down their assists go up?

You can't possibly say that Rondo's 11.7 assists is more impressive than Nash's 11.6 assists.  That's just ignorant.  Nash scored 18.6 points, because his shooting percentages were RIDICULOUS 53%/45%/90%... If he was a subpar scorer like Rondo, then he presumably would have taken less shots (or he'd be a detriment to his team)... in which case, he would have made up for the shots by using offensive possessions to rack up more assists... and thus... would have averaged more assists than Rondo did last year.  The point is that as the hall of famers fade away from the Celtics, Rondo will be asked to score the ball more.  If he's asked to score the ball more that means he'll be taking more shots.  If he's taking more shots that mean's less offensive possessions to get assists.  Less offensive possessions to get assists = less assists.  This isn't rocket surgery.

  That would mean that Rondo gets a lot fewer assists a game in the playoffs, when he takes significantly more shots? It might not be rocket surgery, but clearly things a little more complicated than you think they are.

Tim... I already know what you are alluding to.  I smell the bait.  I made the statement that if Rondo scored more/took more shots/used offensive possessions to take more shots... his assists would go down.

I already know your rebuttal will be to point out that Rondo took more shots in the playoffs and scored more points (17.3) while averaging more assists (11.9) and thus believe you are proving me wrong. 

  So you're claiming that you already know what I've already said? Exciting. But did you already know that I was asking you to back up your claim that when Deron, Nash and CP3 score less their assist totals go up? It's in the post as well, I guess you psychic ability needs a little fine tuning.

Nope.  That's not what you were going for.  But nice try. 

Bottom line... if Rondo continues playing as amazing as he did in the playoffs (we can all hope), he'll end up averaging 15 points and 10 assists (his huge playoff numbers adjusted to 37 minutes).  That's more points and less assists.  I don't think he has it in him to drop 20 and 11 like the superstars. He's still a very good point guard... unquestionably top 6 in the league at this point.  And he's probably going to be in Boston for a long time... so no need for anyone to throw away their Rondo bed sheets or anything.

Ummm what superstars? These superstars?

2007-2009 chris paul

4 seasons in the 60's oscar robertson

83-85 isaih thomas

88-89 - kevin Johnson

3 season magic Johnson

There's the list of the entire NBA existence of players averaging 20 and 11 so thats just a really bizarre comment on your part. This doesn't even take into account pace of play or things like that in which case the Celtics I'm sure at the very bottom compared to the teams these guys played on and these guys I'm positive played more minutes than Rondo as well.

Thanks for reiterating my point.   Rondo is a poor man's Jason Kidd in his prime.  That's excellent... but definitely not on the level of a superstars like Magic, Isiah, Chris Paul or Oscar.   Tommy point.

[LarBrd33]

From this we can guesstimate that if Rondo continues his incredible post-season form... he'd average close to 15 points per game and just over 10 assists per game (since there is no way he'd play 43 minutes a night in the regular season)... which is still significantly less than Nash, Deron and Chris Paul at their best (20 points 11 assists).

  Figure the Celts besides Rondo hit their normal shots during the season and you'd probably get 15/11.4 or so.

Figure that Rondo shoots .448 instead of .468 like he did in the playoffs against Mario Chalmers and Jeff Teague... and he'll probably average 14 points and 10 assists.  If he spends more possessions trying to score the ball... he'll get less assists.

Coincidentally, his best playoff run was actually in 2009 when he averaged close to a triple double.  He followed it up with an excellent regular season where he averaged 13.7 points and 9.8 assists.  Rondo's in his prime right now.  He is what he is.  A very good point guard with limited offensive ability.

[KGs Knee]

Nah.

When Nash won those MVP's he was getting as many assists as Rondo, but also scoring 17-19 a night while shooting RIDICULOUS percentages of 50%/44%/90% ... Rondo is a great point guard, but he's completely unreliable on the offensive end.  He can pass and play solid defense.. and run an offense as well as anyone in the league... but he lacks the ability to create his own shot or score consistently... a skill that point guards (equal to him in playmaking) like Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Nash have.... and point guards (less than him in playmaking) like Rose and Westbrook also have.

Rondo did have an amazing playoff this year, though.  But he's had huge series in the past (2009 comes to mind) that didn't translate to huge regular seasons. 

The idea that Rondo can not create his own shot is absurd. I would say "did you watch the playoofs?", but since you mentioned them in your post I know you did which leaves me wondering what you are talking about. It is true that he doesnt score in the high teens consistently but I believe it is commonly recognized around the league that he doesn't try to score big every night- only when it is needed. Steve Nash has never averaged more assists in a season than Rondo did this year. The most he ever averaged was 11.6. Paul, Williams, despite being very good playmakers, are nowhere close to Rondo as far as being a set-up man.

Rondo's best:  11.9 points, 11.7 assists 45%/24%/60%
Nash's best:  18.6 points, 11.6 assists 53%/45%/90%
Paul's best:  22.8 points, 11 assists  50%/36%/87%
Deron's best:  18.8 points, 10.5 assists, 51%/40%/80%

You figure if Chris Paul is scoring 22.8 points and 11 assists... that' means he's minimum responsible for 44.8 points per night, right?  Likely more if his teammates are scoring threes.   If rondo is getting 11.9 and 11.7... that means he's minimum responsible for 35.3 points per night.   

Do you get my point?  All of those guys are more consistent scorers than Rondo.  If they only needed to score 12 a night, they could easily get more than 11 assists.  They already proved capable of getting 11 assists while scoring far more consistently than ROndo likely ever will be able. 

  So you're saying that if you look at the stats for these guys, when their scoring goes down their assists go up?

You can't possibly say that Rondo's 11.7 assists is more impressive than Nash's 11.6 assists.  That's just ignorant.  Nash scored 18.6 points, because his shooting percentages were RIDICULOUS 53%/45%/90%... If he was a subpar scorer like Rondo, then he presumably would have taken less shots (or he'd be a detriment to his team)... in which case, he would have made up for the shots by using offensive possessions to rack up more assists... and thus... would have averaged more assists than Rondo did last year.  The point is that as the hall of famers fade away from the Celtics, Rondo will be asked to score the ball more.  If he's asked to score the ball more that means he'll be taking more shots.  If he's taking more shots that mean's less offensive possessions to get assists.  Less offensive possessions to get assists = less assists.  This isn't rocket surgery.

  That would mean that Rondo gets a lot fewer assists a game in the playoffs, when he takes significantly more shots? It might not be rocket surgery, but clearly things a little more complicated than you think they are.

Tim... I already know what you are alluding to.  I smell the bait.  I made the statement that if Rondo scored more/took more shots/used offensive possessions to take more shots... his assists would go down.

I already know your rebuttal will be to point out that Rondo took more shots in the playoffs and scored more points (17.3) while averaging more assists (11.9) and thus believe you are proving me wrong. 

  So you're claiming that you already know what I've already said? Exciting. But did you already know that I was asking you to back up your claim that when Deron, Nash and CP3 score less their assist totals go up? It's in the post as well, I guess you psychic ability needs a little fine tuning.

Nope.  That's not what you were going for.  But nice try. 

  It's exactly what I said:

  "So you're saying that if you look at the stats for these guys, when their scoring goes down their assists go up?"

  I just made it into a seperate response because you clearly ignored it the first time. But nice try.

No I'm telling you that Rondo gets so many assists, because he can't can't score as well as the other great point guards who are better than him overall.  If he tried to start scoring 20 a night (as those other point guards do effortlessly), he wouldn't lead the league in assists.  Unless a player is truly elite (Nash in his prime... Chris Paul), you can't have it both ways.

Here's my problem with your insistance that Rondo's assists would go down if he tried to score more, you have very little, if any, evidence to back that claim up.  It's pure speculation.

We do have evidence, although limited in sample size and in larger minutes, that Rondo CAN and HAS upped his scoring while maintaining his assits in the playoffs.  He's never really tried to score more in the regular season, because it was in the best interest of the team for him to be more of a playmaker/facilitator. 

All of your statements are mere speculative opinion.  It's my opinion your opinion is wrong.  But hey, that's what blogs are for, right?

[BballTim]

Nah.

When Nash won those MVP's he was getting as many assists as Rondo, but also scoring 17-19 a night while shooting RIDICULOUS percentages of 50%/44%/90% ... Rondo is a great point guard, but he's completely unreliable on the offensive end.  He can pass and play solid defense.. and run an offense as well as anyone in the league... but he lacks the ability to create his own shot or score consistently... a skill that point guards (equal to him in playmaking) like Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Nash have.... and point guards (less than him in playmaking) like Rose and Westbrook also have.

Rondo did have an amazing playoff this year, though.  But he's had huge series in the past (2009 comes to mind) that didn't translate to huge regular seasons. 

The idea that Rondo can not create his own shot is absurd. I would say "did you watch the playoofs?", but since you mentioned them in your post I know you did which leaves me wondering what you are talking about. It is true that he doesnt score in the high teens consistently but I believe it is commonly recognized around the league that he doesn't try to score big every night- only when it is needed. Steve Nash has never averaged more assists in a season than Rondo did this year. The most he ever averaged was 11.6. Paul, Williams, despite being very good playmakers, are nowhere close to Rondo as far as being a set-up man.

Rondo's best:  11.9 points, 11.7 assists 45%/24%/60%
Nash's best:  18.6 points, 11.6 assists 53%/45%/90%
Paul's best:  22.8 points, 11 assists  50%/36%/87%
Deron's best:  18.8 points, 10.5 assists, 51%/40%/80%

You figure if Chris Paul is scoring 22.8 points and 11 assists... that' means he's minimum responsible for 44.8 points per night, right?  Likely more if his teammates are scoring threes.   If rondo is getting 11.9 and 11.7... that means he's minimum responsible for 35.3 points per night.   

Do you get my point?  All of those guys are more consistent scorers than Rondo.  If they only needed to score 12 a night, they could easily get more than 11 assists.  They already proved capable of getting 11 assists while scoring far more consistently than ROndo likely ever will be able. 

  So you're saying that if you look at the stats for these guys, when their scoring goes down their assists go up?

You can't possibly say that Rondo's 11.7 assists is more impressive than Nash's 11.6 assists.  That's just ignorant.  Nash scored 18.6 points, because his shooting percentages were RIDICULOUS 53%/45%/90%... If he was a subpar scorer like Rondo, then he presumably would have taken less shots (or he'd be a detriment to his team)... in which case, he would have made up for the shots by using offensive possessions to rack up more assists... and thus... would have averaged more assists than Rondo did last year.  The point is that as the hall of famers fade away from the Celtics, Rondo will be asked to score the ball more.  If he's asked to score the ball more that means he'll be taking more shots.  If he's taking more shots that mean's less offensive possessions to get assists.  Less offensive possessions to get assists = less assists.  This isn't rocket surgery.

  That would mean that Rondo gets a lot fewer assists a game in the playoffs, when he takes significantly more shots? It might not be rocket surgery, but clearly things a little more complicated than you think they are.

Tim... I already know what you are alluding to.  I smell the bait.  I made the statement that if Rondo scored more/took more shots/used offensive possessions to take more shots... his assists would go down.

I already know your rebuttal will be to point out that Rondo took more shots in the playoffs and scored more points (17.3) while averaging more assists (11.9) and thus believe you are proving me wrong. 

  So you're claiming that you already know what I've already said? Exciting. But did you already know that I was asking you to back up your claim that when Deron, Nash and CP3 score less their assist totals go up? It's in the post as well, I guess you psychic ability needs a little fine tuning.

Nope.  That's not what you were going for.  But nice try. 

Bottom line... if Rondo continues playing as amazing as he did in the playoffs (we can all hope), he'll end up averaging 15 points and 10 assists (his huge playoff numbers adjusted to 37 minutes).  That's more points and less assists.  I don't think he has it in him to drop 20 and 11 like the superstars. He's still a very good point guard... unquestionably top 6 in the league at this point.  And he's probably going to be in Boston for a long time... so no need for anyone to throw away their Rondo bed sheets or anything.

Ummm what superstars? These superstars?

2007-2009 chris paul

4 seasons in the 60's oscar robertson

83-85 isaih thomas

88-89 - kevin Johnson

3 season magic Johnson

There's the list of the entire NBA existence of players averaging 20 and 11 so thats just a really bizarre comment on your part. This doesn't even take into account pace of play or things like that in which case the Celtics I'm sure at the very bottom compared to the teams these guys played on and these guys I'm positive played more minutes than Rondo as well.

Thanks for reiterating my point.   Rondo is a poor man's Jason Kidd in his prime.  That's excellent... but definitely not on the level of a superstars like Magic, Isiah, Chris Paul or Oscar.   Tommy point.

  Magic won a title doing that and got to the finals 1 other time. I'd bet that Jason Kidd in NJ won about as many playoff series as those pgs combined to in those 12 seasons.

[Celtics18]

From this we can guesstimate that if Rondo continues his incredible post-season form... he'd average close to 15 points per game and just over 10 assists per game (since there is no way he'd play 43 minutes a night in the regular season)... which is still significantly less than Nash, Deron and Chris Paul at their best (20 points 11 assists).

  Figure the Celts besides Rondo hit their normal shots during the season and you'd probably get 15/11.4 or so.

Figure that Rondo shoots .448 instead of .468 like he did in the playoffs against Mario Chalmers and Jeff Teague... and he'll probably average 14 points and 10 assists.  If he spends more possessions trying to score the ball... he'll get less assists.

Coincidentally, his best playoff run was actually in 2009 when he averaged close to a triple double.  He followed it up with an excellent regular season where he averaged 13.7 points and 9.8 assists.  Rondo's in his prime right now.  He is what he is.  A very good point guard with limited offensive ability.

I have never liked it when "offensive ability" is used as a synonym for "scoring ability."  I agree that Rondo's scoring ability may be limited, but that doesn't mean that I believe that his offensive ability is less than exceptional.

His passing ability and floor generalship are so often overlooked.  That's the problem with this thread, and debates about Rondo in general.

The Rondo supporters, myself included, often get caught up in feeling the need to defend his scoring abilities.  The truth, though, is that Rondo is that rare player who is an elite player without being an elite scorer.  

[LarBrd33]

Nah.

When Nash won those MVP's he was getting as many assists as Rondo, but also scoring 17-19 a night while shooting RIDICULOUS percentages of 50%/44%/90% ... Rondo is a great point guard, but he's completely unreliable on the offensive end.  He can pass and play solid defense.. and run an offense as well as anyone in the league... but he lacks the ability to create his own shot or score consistently... a skill that point guards (equal to him in playmaking) like Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Nash have.... and point guards (less than him in playmaking) like Rose and Westbrook also have.

Rondo did have an amazing playoff this year, though.  But he's had huge series in the past (2009 comes to mind) that didn't translate to huge regular seasons. 

The idea that Rondo can not create his own shot is absurd. I would say "did you watch the playoofs?", but since you mentioned them in your post I know you did which leaves me wondering what you are talking about. It is true that he doesnt score in the high teens consistently but I believe it is commonly recognized around the league that he doesn't try to score big every night- only when it is needed. Steve Nash has never averaged more assists in a season than Rondo did this year. The most he ever averaged was 11.6. Paul, Williams, despite being very good playmakers, are nowhere close to Rondo as far as being a set-up man.

Rondo's best:  11.9 points, 11.7 assists 45%/24%/60%
Nash's best:  18.6 points, 11.6 assists 53%/45%/90%
Paul's best:  22.8 points, 11 assists  50%/36%/87%
Deron's best:  18.8 points, 10.5 assists, 51%/40%/80%

You figure if Chris Paul is scoring 22.8 points and 11 assists... that' means he's minimum responsible for 44.8 points per night, right?  Likely more if his teammates are scoring threes.   If rondo is getting 11.9 and 11.7... that means he's minimum responsible for 35.3 points per night.   

Do you get my point?  All of those guys are more consistent scorers than Rondo.  If they only needed to score 12 a night, they could easily get more than 11 assists.  They already proved capable of getting 11 assists while scoring far more consistently than ROndo likely ever will be able. 

  So you're saying that if you look at the stats for these guys, when their scoring goes down their assists go up?

You can't possibly say that Rondo's 11.7 assists is more impressive than Nash's 11.6 assists.  That's just ignorant.  Nash scored 18.6 points, because his shooting percentages were RIDICULOUS 53%/45%/90%... If he was a subpar scorer like Rondo, then he presumably would have taken less shots (or he'd be a detriment to his team)... in which case, he would have made up for the shots by using offensive possessions to rack up more assists... and thus... would have averaged more assists than Rondo did last year.  The point is that as the hall of famers fade away from the Celtics, Rondo will be asked to score the ball more.  If he's asked to score the ball more that means he'll be taking more shots.  If he's taking more shots that mean's less offensive possessions to get assists.  Less offensive possessions to get assists = less assists.  This isn't rocket surgery.

  That would mean that Rondo gets a lot fewer assists a game in the playoffs, when he takes significantly more shots? It might not be rocket surgery, but clearly things a little more complicated than you think they are.

Tim... I already know what you are alluding to.  I smell the bait.  I made the statement that if Rondo scored more/took more shots/used offensive possessions to take more shots... his assists would go down.

I already know your rebuttal will be to point out that Rondo took more shots in the playoffs and scored more points (17.3) while averaging more assists (11.9) and thus believe you are proving me wrong. 

  So you're claiming that you already know what I've already said? Exciting. But did you already know that I was asking you to back up your claim that when Deron, Nash and CP3 score less their assist totals go up? It's in the post as well, I guess you psychic ability needs a little fine tuning.

Nope.  That's not what you were going for.  But nice try. 

  It's exactly what I said:

  "So you're saying that if you look at the stats for these guys, when their scoring goes down their assists go up?"

  I just made it into a seperate response because you clearly ignored it the first time. But nice try.

No I'm telling you that Rondo gets so many assists, because he can't can't score as well as the other great point guards who are better than him overall.  If he tried to start scoring 20 a night (as those other point guards do effortlessly), he wouldn't lead the league in assists.  Unless a player is truly elite (Nash in his prime... Chris Paul), you can't have it both ways.

Here's my problem with your insistance that Rondo's assists would go down if he tried to score more, you have very little, if any, evidence to back that claim up.  It's pure speculation.

We do have evidence, although limited in sample size and in larger minutes, that Rondo CAN and HAS upped his scoring while maintaining his assits in the playoffs.  He's never really tried to score more in the regular season, because it was in the best interest of the team for him to be more of a playmaker/facilitator. 

All of your statements are mere speculative opinion.  It's my opinion your opinion is wrong.  But hey, that's what blogs are for, right?

That limited sample size you bring up just proves me right, actually.  His numbers were inflated, because he was averaging significant more minutes in the playoffs.  I've been over this already. 

Regular season:  36.9 minutes - 11.9 points, 11.7 assists, 10.8 shots
Post season (adjusted):  36.9 minutes - 14.9 points, 10.3 assists, 13.6 shots

Regular season (adjusted):  42.6 minutes - 13.7 points, 13.5 assists, 12.4 shots
Post Season:  42.6 minutes - 17.3 points, 11.9 assists, 15.8 shots

More shots = less assists.

Your "small sample size" just reiterated my point. Tommy point.  If the post-big 3 offense relies on Rondo to score significant points... it's unlikely he'll continue to average as many assists.

[arambone]

Team and individual possessions per game play a bigger role than shooting vs passing.

In an uptempo system like Phoenix, Nash has way more possessions to add stats.

Rondo could dominate games, but if he's dominating a plodding offense, there will simply be many less possessions, less touches, less shots, and less passes.

MVP is an award for those in uptempo systems.

[BballTim]

From this we can guesstimate that if Rondo continues his incredible post-season form... he'd average close to 15 points per game and just over 10 assists per game (since there is no way he'd play 43 minutes a night in the regular season)... which is still significantly less than Nash, Deron and Chris Paul at their best (20 points 11 assists).

  Figure the Celts besides Rondo hit their normal shots during the season and you'd probably get 15/11.4 or so.

Figure that Rondo shoots .448 instead of .468 like he did in the playoffs against Mario Chalmers and Jeff Teague... and he'll probably average 14 points and 10 assists.  If he spends more possessions trying to score the ball... he'll get less assists.

Coincidentally, his best playoff run was actually in 2009 when he averaged close to a triple double.  He followed it up with an excellent regular season where he averaged 13.7 points and 9.8 assists.  Rondo's in his prime right now.  He is what he is.  A very good point guard with limited offensive ability.

  Rondo's just entering his prime, and he's always been in situations where his primary job is to get other players shots. He's shown that he's capable of scoring more than he does. He doesn't do it consistently, but then it's not really his job to be one of the team's primary scorers on a regular basis.

[BballTim]

From this we can guesstimate that if Rondo continues his incredible post-season form... he'd average close to 15 points per game and just over 10 assists per game (since there is no way he'd play 43 minutes a night in the regular season)... which is still significantly less than Nash, Deron and Chris Paul at their best (20 points 11 assists).

  Figure the Celts besides Rondo hit their normal shots during the season and you'd probably get 15/11.4 or so.

Figure that Rondo shoots .448 instead of .468 like he did in the playoffs against Mario Chalmers and Jeff Teague... and he'll probably average 14 points and 10 assists.  If he spends more possessions trying to score the ball... he'll get less assists.

  If you have any evidence that Miami, Philly and Atlanta are below average at defending point guards or allow significantly higher than average fg% to opposing point guards I'd like to see it. Your attempt to ignore that the Celts played all their games against top defenses and your (implied) claim that Rondo would struggle to score against teams like Houston and New Orleans more than he does against Miami and Philly is fairly ridiculous.

Coincidentally, his best playoff run was actually in 2009 when he averaged close to a triple double.  He followed it up with an excellent regular season where he averaged 13.7 points and 9.8 assists.

  It's no coincidence that he played like that when KG was out of the lineup for the playoffs. He's always put up better numbers when any of the big three are out of the lineup for a while, which obviously calls into question your claim that he'll struggle without them.

[BballTim]

Nah.

When Nash won those MVP's he was getting as many assists as Rondo, but also scoring 17-19 a night while shooting RIDICULOUS percentages of 50%/44%/90% ... Rondo is a great point guard, but he's completely unreliable on the offensive end.  He can pass and play solid defense.. and run an offense as well as anyone in the league... but he lacks the ability to create his own shot or score consistently... a skill that point guards (equal to him in playmaking) like Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Nash have.... and point guards (less than him in playmaking) like Rose and Westbrook also have.

Rondo did have an amazing playoff this year, though.  But he's had huge series in the past (2009 comes to mind) that didn't translate to huge regular seasons. 

The idea that Rondo can not create his own shot is absurd. I would say "did you watch the playoofs?", but since you mentioned them in your post I know you did which leaves me wondering what you are talking about. It is true that he doesnt score in the high teens consistently but I believe it is commonly recognized around the league that he doesn't try to score big every night- only when it is needed. Steve Nash has never averaged more assists in a season than Rondo did this year. The most he ever averaged was 11.6. Paul, Williams, despite being very good playmakers, are nowhere close to Rondo as far as being a set-up man.

Rondo's best:  11.9 points, 11.7 assists 45%/24%/60%
Nash's best:  18.6 points, 11.6 assists 53%/45%/90%
Paul's best:  22.8 points, 11 assists  50%/36%/87%
Deron's best:  18.8 points, 10.5 assists, 51%/40%/80%

You figure if Chris Paul is scoring 22.8 points and 11 assists... that' means he's minimum responsible for 44.8 points per night, right?  Likely more if his teammates are scoring threes.   If rondo is getting 11.9 and 11.7... that means he's minimum responsible for 35.3 points per night.   

Do you get my point?  All of those guys are more consistent scorers than Rondo.  If they only needed to score 12 a night, they could easily get more than 11 assists.  They already proved capable of getting 11 assists while scoring far more consistently than ROndo likely ever will be able. 

  So you're saying that if you look at the stats for these guys, when their scoring goes down their assists go up?

You can't possibly say that Rondo's 11.7 assists is more impressive than Nash's 11.6 assists.  That's just ignorant.  Nash scored 18.6 points, because his shooting percentages were RIDICULOUS 53%/45%/90%... If he was a subpar scorer like Rondo, then he presumably would have taken less shots (or he'd be a detriment to his team)... in which case, he would have made up for the shots by using offensive possessions to rack up more assists... and thus... would have averaged more assists than Rondo did last year.  The point is that as the hall of famers fade away from the Celtics, Rondo will be asked to score the ball more.  If he's asked to score the ball more that means he'll be taking more shots.  If he's taking more shots that mean's less offensive possessions to get assists.  Less offensive possessions to get assists = less assists.  This isn't rocket surgery.

  That would mean that Rondo gets a lot fewer assists a game in the playoffs, when he takes significantly more shots? It might not be rocket surgery, but clearly things a little more complicated than you think they are.

Tim... I already know what you are alluding to.  I smell the bait.  I made the statement that if Rondo scored more/took more shots/used offensive possessions to take more shots... his assists would go down.

I already know your rebuttal will be to point out that Rondo took more shots in the playoffs and scored more points (17.3) while averaging more assists (11.9) and thus believe you are proving me wrong. 

  So you're claiming that you already know what I've already said? Exciting. But did you already know that I was asking you to back up your claim that when Deron, Nash and CP3 score less their assist totals go up? It's in the post as well, I guess you psychic ability needs a little fine tuning.

Nope.  That's not what you were going for.  But nice try. 

  It's exactly what I said:

  "So you're saying that if you look at the stats for these guys, when their scoring goes down their assists go up?"

  I just made it into a seperate response because you clearly ignored it the first time. But nice try.

No I'm telling you that Rondo gets so many assists, because he can't can't score as well as the other great point guards who are better than him overall.  If he tried to start scoring 20 a night (as those other point guards do effortlessly), he wouldn't lead the league in assists.  Unless a player is truly elite (Nash in his prime... Chris Paul), you can't have it both ways.

  In a combined 30 seasons Nash/CP3/Deron have averaged 20 a night a grand total of 3 times. It's probably not quite as effortless as you think it is.
 

[eugen]

I do not think Rondo has to much chance to win MVP. To MVP at least you have to be 1st@ EC

[Change]

In reality, it is a long shot Rondo to win MVP. As long as he is in the discussion I'd be happy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qoSXxWHV7Q