Penn State to get hammered by NCAA on Monday?

[Moranis]

Question:  Say Jerry Sandusky was not a child molester but a cat burglar.  Everything else is the same, do people still feel the same way about potential penalties?

Molesting a child is a heckuva lot more heinous and damaging than burglary.  Theres not even a comparison. 

Yeah, they are not even in the same league.  Honestly, I wonder if it would even be treated as harshly if Sandusky was a serial killer.  In the rankings of criminals in our society, child molesters are at the very bottom...only above those who molest children and then kill them afterwards.

the victim is different and more heinous, but the actions are very similar in that it is a crime that affects a lot of people.  Crimes are not the purview of the NCAA nor should they be.

Let's stick with your last sentence.  I think that is just fine for an argument.  But, you will NEVER win an argument here, or anywhere else in this society, by suggesting in any way that burglary and pedophelia are anything close to equivalent.

But yes, the NCAA is not a court.  Let them deal with sports, and let others deal with crimes.  I am with you on that.  

I wasn't trying to suggest they were the same thing, merely that the coverup of a crime would be thought of differently if it was a different crime and that shouldn't be the case.  What if Sandusky was pulling a Bernie Madoff and stealing hundreds of million of dollars from people of all walks of life?  That in turn might affect far more people than he did as a child molester.  Again not as heinous but could be far more wide spread and affect far more people negatively.  

Crimes are crimes.  NCAA violations are NCAA violations.  They can be the same thing, but in case they were not.  

But you are ignoring the key aspects of the case.

Sandusky used his position with penn state to lure kids in to then rape them.

Penn state allowed them to use their facilities to rape children. 

If sandusky did this 100% on his own in his own house the crime being the same but the setting being different this wouldnt be as big of a deal

My question presupposed everything else was the same i.e. he still would have used PSU facilities and functions to commit his burglaries.  Everything else was the same only the crime was different.

[Chris]

Question:  Say Jerry Sandusky was not a child molester but a cat burglar.  Everything else is the same, do people still feel the same way about potential penalties?

Molesting a child is a heckuva lot more heinous and damaging than burglary.  Theres not even a comparison. 

Yeah, they are not even in the same league.  Honestly, I wonder if it would even be treated as harshly if Sandusky was a serial killer.  In the rankings of criminals in our society, child molesters are at the very bottom...only above those who molest children and then kill them afterwards.

the victim is different and more heinous, but the actions are very similar in that it is a crime that affects a lot of people.  Crimes are not the purview of the NCAA nor should they be.

Let's stick with your last sentence.  I think that is just fine for an argument.  But, you will NEVER win an argument here, or anywhere else in this society, by suggesting in any way that burglary and pedophelia are anything close to equivalent.

But yes, the NCAA is not a court.  Let them deal with sports, and let others deal with crimes.  I am with you on that.  

I wasn't trying to suggest they were the same thing, merely that the coverup of a crime would be thought of differently if it was a different crime and that shouldn't be the case.  What if Sandusky was pulling a Bernie Madoff and stealing hundreds of million of dollars from people of all walks of life?  That in turn might affect far more people than he did as a child molester.  Again not as heinous but could be far more wide spread and affect far more people negatively.  

Crimes are crimes.  NCAA violations are NCAA violations.  They can be the same thing, but in case they were not.  

I get exactly what you are saying.  I am just pointing out it is a losing battle.  It is like comparing someone to Hitler.  There are certain levels where the comparisons are lost in the emotions, and even if your comparison has some basis in reality, the argument falls flat because most people can't get past those emotions.  And Child molesting is one of those things you simply can't do that with.  

[Rondo2287]

Question:  Say Jerry Sandusky was not a child molester but a cat burglar.  Everything else is the same, do people still feel the same way about potential penalties?

Molesting a child is a heckuva lot more heinous and damaging than burglary.  Theres not even a comparison. 

Yeah, they are not even in the same league.  Honestly, I wonder if it would even be treated as harshly if Sandusky was a serial killer.  In the rankings of criminals in our society, child molesters are at the very bottom...only above those who molest children and then kill them afterwards.

the victim is different and more heinous, but the actions are very similar in that it is a crime that affects a lot of people.  Crimes are not the purview of the NCAA nor should they be.

Let's stick with your last sentence.  I think that is just fine for an argument.  But, you will NEVER win an argument here, or anywhere else in this society, by suggesting in any way that burglary and pedophelia are anything close to equivalent.

But yes, the NCAA is not a court.  Let them deal with sports, and let others deal with crimes.  I am with you on that.  

I wasn't trying to suggest they were the same thing, merely that the coverup of a crime would be thought of differently if it was a different crime and that shouldn't be the case.  What if Sandusky was pulling a Bernie Madoff and stealing hundreds of million of dollars from people of all walks of life?  That in turn might affect far more people than he did as a child molester.  Again not as heinous but could be far more wide spread and affect far more people negatively.  

Crimes are crimes.  NCAA violations are NCAA violations.  They can be the same thing, but in case they were not.  

But you are ignoring the key aspects of the case.

Sandusky used his position with penn state to lure kids in to then rape them.

Penn state allowed them to use their facilities to rape children. 

If sandusky did this 100% on his own in his own house the crime being the same but the setting being different this wouldnt be as big of a deal

My question presupposed everything else was the same i.e. he still would have used PSU facilities and functions to commit his burglaries.  Everything else was the same only the crime was different.

It doesnt really make much sense i mean why would people want to give Sandusky money to invest because he is the assitant head coach at penn state.  Your scenario is flawed.

[wdleehi]

I just fail to understand how all of this is going to "teach them an important lesson" when those who were directly involved are out of the school face major legal issues. 



This looks more like the NCAA beating it's chest. 

[Rondo2287]

AP_Top25 ‏@AP_Top25
Big Ten plans to announce its own sanctions for Penn State at 11 am ET.

[Rondo2287]

I just fail to understand how all of this is going to "teach them an important lesson" when those who were directly involved are out of the school face major legal issues. 



This looks more like the NCAA beating it's chest. 

The school and administration decided football and revenue it generates was more important than do the right and legally mandated thing.

As a result football was taken away, i mean thats pretty much punishment 101 isnt it?

[Chris]

I just fail to understand how all of this is going to "teach them an important lesson" when those who were directly involved are out of the school face major legal issues. 



This looks more like the NCAA beating it's chest. 

This is my problem.  This should not be about teaching a lesson.  This should be about clearing house, and changing a bad culture.  And that is why I think it needs to come from within or from an entity that has power over more than just sports.  

I think the NCAA's response was similar to the NFL against the Saints.  They HAD to try to look strong, or else some people would suggest they are OK with what happened.  But in reality, it was not the NCAA's responsibility, it is the universities (and the tax payers in Pennsylvania)'s responsbility.

[wdleehi]

I just fail to understand how all of this is going to "teach them an important lesson" when those who were directly involved are out of the school face major legal issues. 



This looks more like the NCAA beating it's chest. 

The school and administration decided football and revenue it generates was more important than do the right and legally mandated thing.

As a result football was taken away, i mean thats pretty much punishment 101 isnt it?

Those people are no longer there.  They are facing legal issues.  They are facing civil lawsuits (as is the university). 

These are the punishments for those who break the law. 



The rest of this is a lot of grandstanding. 

[Moranis]

Question:  Say Jerry Sandusky was not a child molester but a cat burglar.  Everything else is the same, do people still feel the same way about potential penalties?

Molesting a child is a heckuva lot more heinous and damaging than burglary.  Theres not even a comparison. 

Yeah, they are not even in the same league.  Honestly, I wonder if it would even be treated as harshly if Sandusky was a serial killer.  In the rankings of criminals in our society, child molesters are at the very bottom...only above those who molest children and then kill them afterwards.

the victim is different and more heinous, but the actions are very similar in that it is a crime that affects a lot of people.  Crimes are not the purview of the NCAA nor should they be.

Let's stick with your last sentence.  I think that is just fine for an argument.  But, you will NEVER win an argument here, or anywhere else in this society, by suggesting in any way that burglary and pedophelia are anything close to equivalent.

But yes, the NCAA is not a court.  Let them deal with sports, and let others deal with crimes.  I am with you on that.  

I wasn't trying to suggest they were the same thing, merely that the coverup of a crime would be thought of differently if it was a different crime and that shouldn't be the case.  What if Sandusky was pulling a Bernie Madoff and stealing hundreds of million of dollars from people of all walks of life?  That in turn might affect far more people than he did as a child molester.  Again not as heinous but could be far more wide spread and affect far more people negatively.  

Crimes are crimes.  NCAA violations are NCAA violations.  They can be the same thing, but in case they were not.  

But you are ignoring the key aspects of the case.

Sandusky used his position with penn state to lure kids in to then rape them.

Penn state allowed them to use their facilities to rape children. 

If sandusky did this 100% on his own in his own house the crime being the same but the setting being different this wouldnt be as big of a deal

My question presupposed everything else was the same i.e. he still would have used PSU facilities and functions to commit his burglaries.  Everything else was the same only the crime was different.

It doesnt really make much sense i mean why would people want to give Sandusky money to invest because he is the assitant head coach at penn state.  Your scenario is flawed.

Football coaches always have other investments, charities, etc., say Sandusky at a Penn State function approached people about investing/donating to Jerry's Kids, but then instead of actually helping the kids, Sandusky embezzled the money.  Or say he got people to invest in Sandusky's Sandwich Shop, and then never built a sandwich shop or built one and paid himself a huge salary and then bankrupted the shop a year later.  Or any number of other things he easily could have done had he wanted to.

[Rondo2287]

Stewart Mandel ‏@slmandel
So in the end, the Paterno/Bowden battle for all-time wins leader came down to who had fewer vacated wins. ... College sports!

thats that was pretty dead on

[Chris]

Stewart Mandel ‏@slmandel
So in the end, the Paterno/Bowden battle for all-time wins leader came down to who had fewer vacated wins. ... College sports!

thats that was pretty dead on

I'll tell you, the vacated wins makes no sense to me.  I can somewhat understand the other sanctions.  I can understand vacating wins when a team is cheating/has ineligible players making contributions.  But because an assistant coach is a pedophile?  That doesn't make sense to me.

[Rondo2287]

Stewart Mandel ‏@slmandel
So in the end, the Paterno/Bowden battle for all-time wins leader came down to who had fewer vacated wins. ... College sports!

thats that was pretty dead on

I'll tell you, the vacated wins makes no sense to me.  I can somewhat understand the other sanctions.  I can understand vacating wins when a team is cheating/has ineligible players making contributions.  But because an assistant coach is a pedophile?  That doesn't make sense to me.

Ya, this one i thought was grandstanding.  This and the fine with the money going towards charities, I thought those two were all P/R related. 

The actual football sanctions I think were deserved.

[Fafnir]

Stewart Mandel ‏@slmandel
So in the end, the Paterno/Bowden battle for all-time wins leader came down to who had fewer vacated wins. ... College sports!

thats that was pretty dead on

I'll tell you, the vacated wins makes no sense to me.  I can somewhat understand the other sanctions.  I can understand vacating wins when a team is cheating/has ineligible players making contributions.  But because an assistant coach is a pedophile?  That doesn't make sense to me.

Spiteful decision to take away the stupid record from a man who they didn't feel was "worthy" anymore.

[Chris]

Stewart Mandel ‏@slmandel
So in the end, the Paterno/Bowden battle for all-time wins leader came down to who had fewer vacated wins. ... College sports!

thats that was pretty dead on

I'll tell you, the vacated wins makes no sense to me.  I can somewhat understand the other sanctions.  I can understand vacating wins when a team is cheating/has ineligible players making contributions.  But because an assistant coach is a pedophile?  That doesn't make sense to me.

Spiteful decision to take away the stupid record from a man who they didn't feel was "worthy" anymore.

Yeah, I suppose.  It just seems to take away some of the punch of that particular punishment for teams who actually cheat.

[Moranis]

Penn State football is done as a meaningful program for 10 years.  

With all of the lost revenue, I also wouldn't be surprised to see Penn State close down other athletic programs.  According to ESPN when looking at just athletic department revenues, Penn State doesn't even make money.  http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/blog/_/name/assael_shaun/id/7889475/kansas-state-most-profitable-athletic-department-2010-11-file

The 19 public school athletic departments that showed a profit in 2010-11 even without including revenue from the university, state or student fees.
Ath. Dept.    Surplus
Kansas State    $20,106,935
Texas    $16,609,111
LSU    $15,462,427
Alabama    $14,195,164
Florida    $11,989,355
Michigan    $10,621,815
Arkansas    $10,524,624
Oklahoma    $9,974,916
Ohio State    $9,528,952
Okla. State    $9,507,375
Texas A&M    $8,975,871
Georgia    $8,384,182
Oregon    $7,125,702
Purdue    $6,773,110
Iowa    $4,731,395
Miss. State    $2,573,373
Nebraska    $1,763,272
Kentucky    $1,219,181
Illinois    $403,425

Take away all of this other income and they make way less money and that affects all of the sports.  Not to mention the 60 million dollar lump sum payment that is due ASAP.