Penn State to get hammered by NCAA on Monday?

[Eja117]

No.



Those responsible for this are taking the fall already in the court of law. 



This is going after the new coaches, the players and the rest of the school that was not involved.



This is not an NCAA issue. 


This is a legal issue and the legal system is taking care of it. 

How on Earth are the trustees taking the fall in court? How are the janitors who didn't report and their supervisors taking the fall?

I'm not saying a culture of witch hunts has to be established as I think some would like, but the culture of looking the other way has to be totally totally demolished, and not just at PSU.

Since when is the NCAA in charge of janitors?  


What did the trustees know?  Is the NCAA in charge of the trustees?

The trustees are in charge of the school. It's like saying the president has nothing to worry about if one of his departments commits serious crimes. Are you in charge or not? Even I heard about the Sandusky whispers well before this came out. Like a year before. You're telling me the trustees didn't know?
I would think janitors in a football complex with direct knowledge of a heinous crime is more an NCAA issue than a tattoo artist who trades a tattoo for an autograph.  
At some point covering up sports scandals and intimidating witnesses has to matter.

Sorry...I don't agree. The issue the NCAA had in the Ohio State case was with the players. They definitely didn't do any punishing of the tattoo artist, or parlor, or industry. They punished the players in the system who made a mistake.

I would think a punishment of Sandusky, Paterno, et al as it relates to football jobs would obviously be more than justified, and a ban or the "death penalty" would be useful if the school showed an unwillingness to change its power structure. But everyone's been fired. Unless you know of others involved in leading this conspiracy, I'm not sure what the NCAA is supposed to do here.

Comparing the OSU "scandal" to the PSU one is just....a bad idea. The OSU kids all got punished, didn't they? Kids there got punished for what other kids did.

Lack of institutional control. Repeat it like 900 times and we see our problem here.

Just having different people at the helm, but nearly all the same trustees doesn't for one minute make me think something similar couldn't happen there again.

PSU is starting to build a history of this. Renee Portland the basketball coach who harassed any of her players she thought was gay was allowed to linger way too long. Cause she did some winning. How many terrible terrible problems does PSU have to have before it gets punished?

[Fafnir]

The problem was that Paterno had enough power to keep the athletic department from any sort of normal control from above.

He and the other three men in charge then used that power to cover this up. They all need to go to jail and the university needs to restructure the power at Penn St with actual institutional controls on the Athletic department.

If they can't setup that sort of control, then they do need to kill the football program.

[Fafnir]

eja117 the NCAA isn't about punished bad behavior, its about punishing:

1. Amateur status violations (gotta keep that labor free)

2. Competitive advantage violations

This isn't about the NCAA, its bigger than that. They've violated the McCleary act and a whole lot of other laws.

[Eja117]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2qI-lH6SIU

Just wanna repeat myself here.  A penn state trustee ran 2 months ago on the platform of a public apology to joe paterno and naming him head football coach after death.

He won. 

That was before this report came out. He's probably singing a different tune now. He probably essentially won because it was clear he wanted to do things differently than the trustees. People still believed in Paterno then.

[pennant_fever]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2qI-lH6SIU

Just wanna repeat myself here.  A penn state trustee ran 2 months ago on the platform of a public apology to joe paterno and naming him head football coach after death.

He won. 

I agree that that is completely ridiculous. And appalling. And that he never should have been elected.

But I don't think the NCAA has control over this kind of thing. Why does the NCAA need to control how an academic institution is impacted by its football program? That's up to the institution to deal with. If the program is doing things that are against NCAA rules, and the school doesn't stop it, there are serious penalties. I'm not sure what rule they can point to here. You need to break an NCAA rule to have a "lack of institutional control."

Now, Penn State has serious issues that need to be addressed. By the trustees, by the state senate, by the governor, by the voters, maybe even by the FBI. But not by the NCAA.

[pennant_fever]

eja117 the NCAA isn't about punished bad behavior, its about punishing:

1. Amateur status violations (gotta keep that labor free)

2. Competitive advantage violations

This isn't about the NCAA, its bigger than that. They've violated the McCleary act and a whole lot of other laws.

Excatly.

[Eja117]

eja117 the NCAA isn't about punished bad behavior, its about punishing:

1. Amateur status violations (gotta keep that labor free)

2. Competitive advantage violations

This isn't about the NCAA, its bigger than that. They've violated the McCleary act and a whole lot of other laws.

I'd have to say when you're willing to conspire to keep your defensive coordinator out of jail and you're trying to let him do what he wants to keep things out of the papers because it will look bad for your team that's sort of a competitive advantage violation. It's sort of a competitive advantage issue when your defensive coordinator should be in jail, but he's not because of you.  At that point you sorta got to bite the bullet and take a minor competitive disadvantage scenario for a summer or so.

[Eja117]

eja117 the NCAA isn't about punished bad behavior, its about punishing:

1. Amateur status violations (gotta keep that labor free)

2. Competitive advantage violations

This isn't about the NCAA, its bigger than that. They've violated the McCleary act and a whole lot of other laws.

Excatly.

Maybe the NCAA needs to change its rules then. What next? A coach that goes Jeffrey Dahmer at night and the coaches and AD cover it up, but since it's not an NCAA violation they all just keep playing?

[SHAQATTACK]

Penn State has big wheels have "ALLOWED" , sosmething to happen that goes belond dirty recuiting , gambling, and common sports failures.

Eventually to make it right .... every coach, trainer, school exec. , secretary , waterboy who knew needs to leave Penn State.

All that do not come clean...will eventually have to answer to a higher justice one day ...better now than latter...


Penn Stat e deserves to be OUT OF FOOTBALL for 10 years. SOmething to make low scum coachs mess with children .

[pennant_fever]

No.



Those responsible for this are taking the fall already in the court of law. 



This is going after the new coaches, the players and the rest of the school that was not involved.



This is not an NCAA issue. 


This is a legal issue and the legal system is taking care of it. 

How on Earth are the trustees taking the fall in court? How are the janitors who didn't report and their supervisors taking the fall?

I'm not saying a culture of witch hunts has to be established as I think some would like, but the culture of looking the other way has to be totally totally demolished, and not just at PSU.

Since when is the NCAA in charge of janitors?  


What did the trustees know?  Is the NCAA in charge of the trustees?

The trustees are in charge of the school. It's like saying the president has nothing to worry about if one of his departments commits serious crimes. Are you in charge or not? Even I heard about the Sandusky whispers well before this came out. Like a year before. You're telling me the trustees didn't know?
I would think janitors in a football complex with direct knowledge of a heinous crime is more an NCAA issue than a tattoo artist who trades a tattoo for an autograph.  
At some point covering up sports scandals and intimidating witnesses has to matter.

Sorry...I don't agree. The issue the NCAA had in the Ohio State case was with the players. They definitely didn't do any punishing of the tattoo artist, or parlor, or industry. They punished the players in the system who made a mistake.

I would think a punishment of Sandusky, Paterno, et al as it relates to football jobs would obviously be more than justified, and a ban or the "death penalty" would be useful if the school showed an unwillingness to change its power structure. But everyone's been fired. Unless you know of others involved in leading this conspiracy, I'm not sure what the NCAA is supposed to do here.

Comparing the OSU "scandal" to the PSU one is just....a bad idea. The OSU kids all got punished, didn't they? Kids there got punished for what other kids did.

Lack of institutional control. Repeat it like 900 times and we see our problem here.

Just having different people at the helm, but nearly all the same trustees doesn't for one minute make me think something similar couldn't happen there again.

PSU is starting to build a history of this. Renee Portland the basketball coach who harassed any of her players she thought was gay was allowed to linger way too long. Cause she did some winning. How many terrible terrible problems does PSU have to have before it gets punished?

For the record...you made the comparison, not me. I completely agree that there's no comparison. I just think it's dangerous to equate the severity of the crime with who should have jurisdiction over it. Maybe in a world ruled by karma there would be no more football at PSU. But that's not really how it works, and I don't think you should punish the program that didn't break any NCAA rules.

Again for the record...definitely punish the institution. Hard. Legally. But not through the NCAA.

[Fafnir]

eja117 the NCAA isn't about punished bad behavior, its about punishing:

1. Amateur status violations (gotta keep that labor free)

2. Competitive advantage violations

This isn't about the NCAA, its bigger than that. They've violated the McCleary act and a whole lot of other laws.

Excatly.

Maybe the NCAA needs to change its rules then. What next? A coach that goes Jeffrey Dahmer at night and the coaches and AD cover it up, but since it's not an NCAA violation they all just keep playing?

I don't think a sports organization should be handling serial killers, criminal reporting violations, perjury, or pedophilles. They to put it simply aren't qualified or competant enough for it.

I wouldn't mind them coming in with some sort of punishment if they feel they can under their charter (or whatever empowers them) but its not something they should be doing.

[Eja117]

No.



Those responsible for this are taking the fall already in the court of law. 



This is going after the new coaches, the players and the rest of the school that was not involved.



This is not an NCAA issue. 


This is a legal issue and the legal system is taking care of it. 

How on Earth are the trustees taking the fall in court? How are the janitors who didn't report and their supervisors taking the fall?

I'm not saying a culture of witch hunts has to be established as I think some would like, but the culture of looking the other way has to be totally totally demolished, and not just at PSU.

Since when is the NCAA in charge of janitors?  


What did the trustees know?  Is the NCAA in charge of the trustees?

The trustees are in charge of the school. It's like saying the president has nothing to worry about if one of his departments commits serious crimes. Are you in charge or not? Even I heard about the Sandusky whispers well before this came out. Like a year before. You're telling me the trustees didn't know?
I would think janitors in a football complex with direct knowledge of a heinous crime is more an NCAA issue than a tattoo artist who trades a tattoo for an autograph.  
At some point covering up sports scandals and intimidating witnesses has to matter.

Sorry...I don't agree. The issue the NCAA had in the Ohio State case was with the players. They definitely didn't do any punishing of the tattoo artist, or parlor, or industry. They punished the players in the system who made a mistake.

I would think a punishment of Sandusky, Paterno, et al as it relates to football jobs would obviously be more than justified, and a ban or the "death penalty" would be useful if the school showed an unwillingness to change its power structure. But everyone's been fired. Unless you know of others involved in leading this conspiracy, I'm not sure what the NCAA is supposed to do here.

Comparing the OSU "scandal" to the PSU one is just....a bad idea. The OSU kids all got punished, didn't they? Kids there got punished for what other kids did.

Lack of institutional control. Repeat it like 900 times and we see our problem here.

Just having different people at the helm, but nearly all the same trustees doesn't for one minute make me think something similar couldn't happen there again.

PSU is starting to build a history of this. Renee Portland the basketball coach who harassed any of her players she thought was gay was allowed to linger way too long. Cause she did some winning. How many terrible terrible problems does PSU have to have before it gets punished?

For the record...you made the comparison, not me. I completely agree that there's no comparison. I just think it's dangerous to equate the severity of the crime with who should have jurisdiction over it. Maybe in a world ruled by karma there would be no more football at PSU. But that's not really how it works, and I don't think you should punish the program that didn't break any NCAA rules.

Again for the record...definitely punish the institution. Hard. Legally. But not through the NCAA.

At this point if the NCAA or the Big Ten won't do it individual schools should consider it. Schools should just forfeit if they have to and just say "We aren't playing football with PSU this year".  At least for PSU's away games. I think it's dangerous now. I don't think it's a good idea to have proud PSU fans walking around in PSU gear at other schools right now.

I mean when a school does something horrific you don't sit around and say "Weelllll. It's not reeealllyyy our jurisdiction. We don't uuuusssaalllyy deal with stuff like this". Tough. Find the jurisdiction.

Like when Roger Goodell punished Rothlisburger about as bad as almost any player had even been punished despite not being charged. He just said "You're behavior did not come remotely close to the expectation we have of you". 

Sometimes you gotta stop being a lawyer and just drop a bomb.

[CoachBo]

That's a massive overreaction, IMHO, the legal equivalent of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

This is a legal and civil issue that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the current staff and current players.

And frankly, it isn't the way we do business in America to run around willy-nilly punishing everyone we can find and use some misplaced sense of moral outrage to do it. That sounds like a third-world country to me.

The people responsible and the university's coffers will justifiably pay for this incident. Expanding this beyond the actual culprits is nonsense that accomplishes absolutely nothing of value.

The death penalty is absurd in this case.

[cltc5]

Well sId coach Bo.  But welcome to the min mentality adopted by thus country, perpetuated by irresponsible media coverage.  How much aploligy will be enough.  How long does one need to keep kicking people down?  And yet those same people clamor for the unfairness and injustice done To the victims.  Typical hypocrisy of a
nation.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Back when I was a kid in school one of my teachers would show a movie at the end of every week... well, one day two kids started fighting during the movie... the teacher stopped showing movies for months after that fight disrupted the movie, none of us had anything to do with the fight but the teacher punished us all for it by not showing movies. When the teacher finally decided to show movies again NO ONE got in trouble for even talking during the movies for the rest of the year!

It's not about just punishing the people who do the wrong but doing something to keep others from doing it.

If the people are only hurting themselves (going to prison or w/e the punishment) they are more willing to take a risk. If their actions hurt a lot more people they are less likely to do it.

Taking away the football team (sports) from the school for a while, you give the message to other would be offenders that you harm not only yourself and your victim but many other people!

If Sandusky knew he would ruin the school/Pa, it isn't that he wouldn't be a molester, he just would be much less likely to involve them in it. He would probably have looked outside that environment.

The death penalty doesn't keep people from murdering but I bet a lot less people would do it if the penalty was their life and one of their loved ones. Extreme I know but I'm just trying to make an example.


My opinion...