DA getting criticism for Green contract. So tell me: who has DA overpaid before?

[GeorgeV]

really looking forward Jeff put to sleep all criticism he's getting around here
He's definetly gonna make his presence felt next year, and in a good way for boston

I trust in danny

[jyyzzoel]

Watch Jeff Green average 16ppg, 6 rebounds, 4 ast, and win 6th man of the year.

u forgot to mention that jeff will let the guy he's guarding average 22ppg, 8 rebounds, 5 assists, and be the other teams 6th man.

overall jeff green is mediocre. u guys all sound like a GM in love with a prospect before the draft, talking about potential, and seem to forget jeff has already been in the league at least 4 years and has shown the ability to:

- score 20 points per 48 minutes
- get 8 rebounds per 48 minutes
- get 2 assists per 48 minutes
- get 1.5 steals every 48 minutes

EVERY 48 MINUTES!!! not every game (in which he usually played 36 minutes), but EVERY 48 MINUTES as though he played every minute of the game. thats what he would average.

im sorry, but that is a mediocre player, if ever there was one!

and thats with a useage percentage of 19%!!! it's not high, but it's certainly enough!!! you know who had a useage percentage of 18% in college?? ANTHONY DAVIS. college or not, i just pointed this out to show that useage percentage doesnt mean too much after a certain point.

al horford - useage percentage 17% seriously!

so you cant say that because he's had durant on his team for so long is the reason jeff never got a chance to shine.

_______________________________________________________________

ok, just to make u all laugh i left that all in... and ive changed my mind...

looking at his wins per 48, and keeping in mind he played most of his career at PF instead of SF (which is where he should be playing, and where in fact i think danny and doc see him playing most of his minutes) he actually looks pretty good.

i dont know how he does it.

but his wins per 48 were actually around .100 - which is average.  when he got to boston, it went up to .118. his offensive rating pretty much stayed the same, but his defensive rating went waaayy up.

now given that he was actually more productive in boston than he was in OKC (i know, i know... i dont understand it myself - but thats what the numbers show), and keeping in mind that he didnt fully understand the defensive rotations, etc while he was here for half a season - and keeping in mind that before he came to boston his wins per 48 were actually quite consistent (playing at PF), i think he really does have potential to be at least as good as, if not better than rudy gay, whose wins per 48 the last two seasons were at .123, and .120

goodness me!
i dont understand it myself.
but i criticized danny for paying jeff that much money for the past day or two.
he's better than nick young.
he's better than OJ Mayo.
he was as good in boston as eric gordon was in NO and LA.
he's actually a lot better than michael beasley.
he's better than tyreke evans.
at this moment he's as good as gordon hayward.
better than gerald henderson.
better than evan turner.

wins per 48 show everything... given a large enough sample.  and jeffs is large enough. i went to lookem up to gather ammunition to start a case against jeff, and, alas, i was converted:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greenje02.html

al horford is still a lot better than him though:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01.html

ryan anderson is a lot better than jeff at this point in time though.

did jeff get overpaid? i really dont know. it's hard to say because rudy gay is about the same as jeff OVERALL and he got paid 16 mill a year, whereas ryan anderson is getting 9 mill a year and has thus far been a lot better than jeff.

PLEASE SOMEONE CHANGE MY MIND BACK!!!!  

just saying, there is potential within the celtics system:

http://www.celticsblog.com/2011/5/8/2160170/jeff-greens-defense-on-lebron-was-a-story

HOPE AT LEAST ONE OF YOU GOT A LAUGH OUT OF MY BACKFLIP

i think ive under-rated the kids defense:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_mGic0nwr0

[cltc5]

Jeff was payed 9 mil a year last year.  He's getting what he made when he left but just for 4 more years.  I think if Danny thought Orlando was gonna get rid of Anderson he mighta tried to sign hom.  That decision came after Green agreed.  Perhaps Green was gettin other offers.  At least He wants to be here and appears to want to improve.  Some should watch his OKC games to get a better feel of his potential.

[ScottHow]

Mark Blount was my first thought and for some reason I didn't think of Scal til someone else mentioned it. 5 years 15 mil? Crazy.

[Roy H.]

Brian Scalabrine and Mark Blount are the two that jump to mind.

Yep.  And taking of Raef's contract was a bad decision, even though he didn't hand that one out.

[jambr380]

DA's worst contracts [by far] were the ones he traded for in Raef and Wally (Theo was received in a trade for Raef and he had one less year). 13 mill and 11 mill long term for players with little potential to get better and that were injury proned made absolutely no sense. Ricky may have been overpaid, but he did some nice things for us, even though he was a bit of a bonehead.

Obviously the Mark Blount hate is warranted, but under 7 mill a year for a young center coming off of a very good season wasn't ridiculous. He just showed his true colors very soon after. In hindsight, it was terrible, but at the time, it wasn't so bad.

I was always a hater of Scal's contract, but at 3 mill per year, it is hard to justify it as crippling and he was really just an extension of the coaching staff. He earned his money later in the contract.

[celtsfan84]

DA's worst contracts [by far] were the ones he traded for in Raef and Wally (Theo was received in a trade for Raef and he had one less year). 13 mill and 11 mill long term for players with little potential to get better and that were injury proned made absolutely no sense. Ricky may have been overpaid, but he did some nice things for us, even though he was a bit of a bonehead.

Obviously the Mark Blount hate is warranted, but under 7 mill a year for a young center coming off of a very good season wasn't ridiculous. He just showed his true colors very soon after. In hindsight, it was terrible, but at the time, it wasn't so bad.

I was always a hater of Scal's contract, but at 3 mill per year, it is hard to justify it as crippling and he was really just an extension of the coaching staff. He earned his money later in the contract.

No, at the time it was actually really bad.

Keep in mind that the cap in that season was around $43 million, so in today's NBA money, a $7 million contract in 2004 is like a $12 million contract in 2012.

And it seemed pretty obvious to all of us and most NBA analysts at the time that he was making a contract push at the end of his contract.  Check out his career numbers and compare them to his numbers at the end of his contract.

Mark Blount's contract was an F at the time and an F------ in hindsight.  We were probably the highest bidder by about $41 million.

[celtsfan84]

Not that I consider him an authority on anything, but here is Bill Simmons' response to the Mark Blount signing, written in 2004, immediately after the signing:

There were two possibilities here: Either he is the proverbial late bloomer, or he was pulling a McIllvane, this year's stiff center making a contract run at the perfect time. There's one every year. The names read like a morgue report: the immortal Jim McIllvane (who started everything) ... Ike Austin ... Cal Booth ... Jerome James ... John Amaeche ... Shawn Bradley ... Chris Dudley ... Greg Ostertag. Some guys can even crap the bed and still get paid -- like Vitaly Potapenko or Michael Olowokandi. If you're big, and you're available, someone always wants you. Always. Even if it seems like you're wearing mittens.

So that was the dilemma. Late bloomer or McIllvane? Once the Foyle-Okur contracts were inflicted on the general public, Dad and I were resigned to the fact that Blount was leaving and we wouldn't have a center next season. I mean, after the Baker and LaFrentz debacles, surely this team had learned its lesson, right? You should only open your checkbooks for a sure thing. Right?

We learned this ... I mean, we LEARNED this. Right?

Blount's hands have the makings of another free agent legend.Word came down yesterday morning: Blount was in the fold. Six years, $41 million, with a 15-percent bump if they ever tried to trade him. Staggering numbers for a 28-year-old center who played well for exactly three and a half months in his entire career, a span that directly coincided with his imminent status as a free agent. This made three straight summers that the team rolled the dice on a big man with question marks. One of them had a drinking problem and a poisonous contract. One of them had knee problems and a poisonous contract. And one of them was Mark Blount, the leading contender for the 2004 Jim McIllvane Award. Now the Celtics have no salary cap flexibility whatsoever for at least the next three years. Beautiful.

I love Danny as much as the next guy, but nobody is perfect.  The Blount contract was horrible from the moment it was signed.

[mctyson]

Danny's worst deals were of course to big men:  Mark Blount, Jermaine O'neal, Raef.  So in this regard he is no different than almost every GM in the league in terms of signing busts.

Scalabrine was a bad deal but that's not the kind of deal that gets you fired as a GM (see Lewis, Rashard; Smith, Otis).

As someone mentioned, we haven't had a shot to see Danny attempt to overpay anyone.  This offseason was the first time we could have had cap space to sign a big FA.

I don't think Jeff Green will fall into the category of "overpaid" or "bad contract" unless he gets hurt or severely underperforms.  If plays to his career average, he will be a typical NBA salary for his production.

[celtsfan84]

Danny's worst deals were of course to big men:  Mark Blount, Jermaine O'neal, Raef.  So in this regard he is no different than almost every GM in the league in terms of signing busts.

Scalabrine was a bad deal but that's not the kind of deal that gets you fired as a GM (see Lewis, Rashard; Smith, Otis).

As someone mentioned, we haven't had a shot to see Danny attempt to overpay anyone.  This offseason was the first time we could have had cap space to sign a big FA.

I don't think Jeff Green will fall into the category of "overpaid" or "bad contract" unless he gets hurt or severely underperforms.  If plays to his career average, he will be a typical NBA salary for his production.

Well, yes and no.  There aren't many GMs who keep their jobs after contracts like Blount.  It ruined any potential cap flexibility for years.  That is a trait common moreso in bad GMs that routinely miss the playoffs, not every GM. I think we are all really underselling that contract because we are Celtics fans.  That contract gets most GMs fired.

Danny's specialty hasn't really proven to be free agency.

His trades usually net a positive.  For acquiring KG and Ray alone he gets an A as a trader.
I don't think anyone can argue with his drafting acumen.  He has hit far more often than missed.  He is an A+ as a drafter, IMO.
In free agency / contract extensions I'd say he is very middle of the road, maybe a C-.  He just drafts really well and makes good trades to balance his questionable free agency moves.

[ScottHow]

I don't think Jeff Green will fall into the category of "overpaid" or "bad contract" unless he gets hurt or severely underperforms.  If plays to his career average, he will be a typical NBA salary for his production.

Yeah, I don't expect Green's contract to be a bad one at all. I'm actually kind of excited to see if he really does play with a new sense of urgency. He mentioned that the surgery has made him look at life differently.

[Liam W]

Giving Kevin Garnett a 3yr $36million deal is just crazy. The dude is 36 and he was on one knee all last season. Ainge just refuses to blow this team up.

He should have traded KG last season as he had an expiring contract you could have got something for him so why extend a 36yr old on a 3 year $36million deal?

Nonsense!

[celtsfan84]

Giving Kevin Garnett a 3yr $36million deal is just crazy. The dude is 36 and he was on one knee all last season. Ainge just refuses to blow this team up.

He should have traded KG last season as he had an expiring contract you could have got something for him so why extend a 36yr old on a 3 year $36million deal?

Nonsense!

Meh. It might turn out to be a slight overpay over time.  Especially when he is 38/39.  But I wouldn't say any deal involving KG fits the bill of an egregious overpay.  KG has proven his worth in the NBA.

[Fan from VT]

Danny's worst deals were of course to big men:  Mark Blount, Jermaine O'neal, Raef.  So in this regard he is no different than almost every GM in the league in terms of signing busts.

Scalabrine was a bad deal but that's not the kind of deal that gets you fired as a GM (see Lewis, Rashard; Smith, Otis).

As someone mentioned, we haven't had a shot to see Danny attempt to overpay anyone.  This offseason was the first time we could have had cap space to sign a big FA.

I don't think Jeff Green will fall into the category of "overpaid" or "bad contract" unless he gets hurt or severely underperforms. If plays to his career average, he will be a typical NBA salary for his production.

Just don't see this. Al Harrington gives almost the exact position and production, but slightly better across the board, and people thought he was overpaid at 5 yrs 35 million. Or more years AND less money than Green. Marvin Williams is another one, almost exactly the same size, position, and slightly better production, and people make fun of his 5 yr 37 million dollar deal: again, less total money for more total years and signed when the CBA more favored players. This CBA was supposed to lessen player salaries, but Green gets more money for fewer years than extremely similar players previously received.

Edit-
I messed up. I was still thinking 4/40, not 4/36.
So the C's get 4 years of Green for basically the same price other teams got 5 years of Marvin or Harrington. That's not very good.

Also, another way to think about is that those other "bad" contracts were signed in the previous CBA, which was more favorable to players. In that system, the full midlevel, available to ALL teams (so there was more competitive bidding from teams, driving UP prices) was 5 years, with 8.5% raises, starting at 5.8 million, so ended up about 5 yr 35 million. In other words, Marvin and Harrington basically signed full MLE deals.

Green, however, signed for 4 yrs 36 million in the new CBA, in which the max MLE deal is only available to non-tax teams (driving bidding and competition DOWN), starts at 5 million per year, has smaller raises, and tops out at 4 years, 20-22 million or so. In other words, Harrinton and Marvin were worth Full MLEs in a system that favored players, while Green was given 175% of the full MLE (or 1.75 full MLEs) in a CBA that favors teams more than the old one. That's why it's an overpay.

[celtsfan84]

Danny's worst deals were of course to big men:  Mark Blount, Jermaine O'neal, Raef.  So in this regard he is no different than almost every GM in the league in terms of signing busts.

Scalabrine was a bad deal but that's not the kind of deal that gets you fired as a GM (see Lewis, Rashard; Smith, Otis).

As someone mentioned, we haven't had a shot to see Danny attempt to overpay anyone.  This offseason was the first time we could have had cap space to sign a big FA.

I don't think Jeff Green will fall into the category of "overpaid" or "bad contract" unless he gets hurt or severely underperforms. If plays to his career average, he will be a typical NBA salary for his production.

Just don't see this. Al Harrington gives almost the exact position and production, but slightly better across the board, and people thought he was overpaid at 5 yrs 35 million. Or more years AND less money than Green. Marvin Williams is another one, almost exactly the same size, position, and slightly better production, and people make fun of his 5 yr 37 million dollar deal: again, less total money for more total years and signed when the CBA more favored players. This CBA was supposed to lessen player salaries, but Green gets more money for fewer years than extremely similar players previously received.

TP.  He seems pretty similar overall talent-wise to Marvin and the Hawks have been dying to dump that deal, which is less than Green's.