Ray is gone (wanted 3 year 27 million)

[rayallen1934]

The three years $27 million ...

Pretty much the same contract Jason Kidd signed for Dallas three years ago (three years, $25 million). Similar stage of their careers (Ray a year older). Similar level of effectiveness (above average starter). That contract turned out to be a great bit of business for Dallas.

I don't think Ray was being unreasonable with his contract demands.

Jason Kidd's value to Dallas was greater for them than RA's was now to the Celtics.

And maybe thats why hes gone smart guy.

[alley oop]

The three years $27 million ...

Pretty much the same contract Jason Kidd signed for Dallas three years ago (three years, $25 million). Similar stage of their careers (Ray a year older). Similar level of effectiveness (above average starter). That contract turned out to be a great bit of business for Dallas.

I don't think Ray was being unreasonable with his contract demands.

Jason Kidd was a triple double machine, and a guy who could can beat you in any of 4 possible ways:
- Shooting
- Rebounding
- Passing/Playmaking
- Ball handling
- Defense
- Big / strong enough to guard both guard positions

On top of this he is the kind of player who made everbody he played with better - very much like Rajon Rondo, only bigger and with a more accurate three point shot.

That is no comparison to a SG who is:
- Exceptonal three point shooter
- Average rebounder
- Average passer
- Average ball handler
- Average (if that) defender
- Too slow to guard PGs, to weak to guard SFs and struggles at times to guard his own position

With all due respect, the comparison is apples and oranges.

And Jason Kidd could shoot a game winning 3 with RA guarding him, as he did this past season.

[rayallen1934]

The three years $27 million ...

Pretty much the same contract Jason Kidd signed for Dallas three years ago (three years, $25 million). Similar stage of their careers (Ray a year older). Similar level of effectiveness (above average starter). That contract turned out to be a great bit of business for Dallas.

I don't think Ray was being unreasonable with his contract demands.

Jason Kidd was a triple double machine, and a guy who could can beat you in any of 4 possible ways:
- Shooting
- Rebounding
- Passing/Playmaking
- Ball handling
- Defense
- Big / strong enough to guard both guard positions

On top of this he is the kind of player who made everbody he played with better - very much like Rajon Rondo, only bigger and with a more accurate three point shot.

That is no comparison to a SG who is:
- Exceptonal three point shooter
- Average rebounder
- Average passer
- Average ball handler
- Average (if that) defender
- Too slow to guard PGs, to weak to guard SFs and struggles at times to guard his own position

With all due respect, the comparison is apples and oranges.

And Jason Kidd could shoot a game winning 3 with RA guarding him, as he did this past season.

I never knew Chandler played for Dallas this past season

[alley oop]

I never knew Chandler played for Dallas this past season

If you're suggesting it was the 2011 season, it doesn't change the point any.

[cb8883]

Anyone else get the parallel between the Ray joining the Miami Heat and wrestling's New World Order?

Something like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO9zxsRzN-M

The HEAT WORLD ORDER (HWO) !!

Actually watching this video...this does have some parallel's to Ray Allen going down south to the Heat lol.

[Lord of Mikawa]

The three years $27 million ...

Pretty much the same contract Jason Kidd signed for Dallas three years ago (three years, $25 million). Similar stage of their careers (Ray a year older). Similar level of effectiveness (above average starter). That contract turned out to be a great bit of business for Dallas.

I don't think Ray was being unreasonable with his contract demands.

  It's not the dollar amount per se, it's telling your current team that if they want to retain your services they have to pay you much more money than you'll be able to get anywhere else. It's one thing to ask for 3/27 and sign for 3/24 or 4/30 or something, it's different if you sign for 3/9.

Exactly, what you're saying Who makes zero sense because he just signed for 3 mill per.

I think Ray Allen was worth somewhere near that figure. He asked for what he felt he was worth (3 years, $27 million) and Danny came back and offered less than half the value of that contract (2 years, $12 million).

That matters too.

I think Danny slighted Ray Allen with his contract offer / response.

Either way he still took less money.

[crimson_stallion]

The three years $27 million ...

Pretty much the same contract Jason Kidd signed for Dallas three years ago (three years, $25 million). Similar stage of their careers (Ray a year older). Similar level of effectiveness (above average starter). That contract turned out to be a great bit of business for Dallas.

I don't think Ray was being unreasonable with his contract demands.

  It's not the dollar amount per se, it's telling your current team that if they want to retain your services they have to pay you much more money than you'll be able to get anywhere else. It's one thing to ask for 3/27 and sign for 3/24 or 4/30 or something, it's different if you sign for 3/9.

Exactly, what you're saying Who makes zero sense because he just signed for 3 mill per.

I think Ray Allen was worth somewhere near that figure. He asked for what he felt he was worth (3 years, $27 million) and Danny came back and offered less than half the value of that contract (2 years, $12 million).

That matters too.

I think Danny slighted Ray Allen with his contract offer / response.

Yes, and he was so offended by a team offering him so little (only 6M per season!!!) that he than said FU and went to another team for a more fair number of 3M per season.

Oh wait...3M is less than 6M isn't it?

Oh snap...there goes that excuse!

The three years $27 million ...

Pretty much the same contract Jason Kidd signed for Dallas three years ago (three years, $25 million). Similar stage of their careers (Ray a year older). Similar level of effectiveness (above average starter). That contract turned out to be a great bit of business for Dallas.

I don't think Ray was being unreasonable with his contract demands.

  It's not the dollar amount per se, it's telling your current team that if they want to retain your services they have to pay you much more money than you'll be able to get anywhere else. It's one thing to ask for 3/27 and sign for 3/24 or 4/30 or something, it's different if you sign for 3/9.

Exactly, what you're saying Who makes zero sense because he just signed for 3 mill per.

I think Ray Allen was worth somewhere near that figure. He asked for what he felt he was worth (3 years, $27 million) and Danny came back and offered less than half the value of that contract (2 years, $12 million).

That matters too.

I think Danny slighted Ray Allen with his contract offer / response.

Either way he still took less money.

Exactly!!

I'm sorry to break this to Ray Allen and his fanboys, but NBA teams pay their players based on contribution, not reputation.

Just because a 34 year old healthy Ray Allen was worth 9M two years ago, doesn't mean a 36 year old Ray Allen with bone spurs is still worth 9M now. 

The problem is, fom all I have seen it looks to me that Ray Allen has an ego that is far too great. 

Last year he was seemingly offended by the thought of coming off the bench, even though Bradley was clearly doing better in his place.  A player with lesser ego would have understood that he IS still valuable to his team, but he is just more valuable on a second unit that really needed his leadership and scoring.  Instead he seemed to take on this "What? don't you know who I am?? RAY ALLEN does not come off the bench!!" mentality.  Judging himself based on who he is, rather than what he is actually capable of.

This contact situation seems to show the same signs. It's like feels that just becuase he has an All-Star name (Ray Allen) and an All-Star history, this means he deserves a All-Star salary.  Truth is he is no longer n All-Star producer, and so it's not realistic for him to be paid like one.  He's not going to make an all-nba or all-defensive team, he's not going to be an MVP, he's not going to win the scoring title, and I seriously doubt he's even going to make an All-Star team.

The only award he has a good chance of winning is 6th man of the year, and he's got some fierce competition for that one (Terry, Green, Harden, Crawford).

To be completely honest, I thought the 2/12M contact Boston offered him was already really pushing it given his current skill set, the risk (with his bone spurs), our lack of cap space and the the number of roster spots we still had to fill up.  I personally felt that 2/10M was about what he was worth, but because Boston couldn't really sign anyone outside of their own players (and because he is Ray and we all love the guy) I decided the 2/12M was acceptable.

9M per year is WAY off the mark, and that kind of money could secure someone 10 years younger with far greater versatility.  OJ Mayo for example would be a pretty easy signing for 9M/year, and we could likely cover Pietrus, Wilcox AND Krstic for the price of that one contact. But we can't offer that same money to other free agents because of cap holds - we could only offer it to guys with bird rights, and I'm pretty sure Ray knew that and wanted to use it to try to indirectly pressure Boston into signing him for more than he is work.

Once they pulled off the Terry signing though, I think that's when Ray realised that Ainge isn't stupid, and he's not going to sign a role player to an All-Star's salary just because he can. Bravo to Danny for having that assertiveness. 

Maybe Ray saw that Boston signed KG for 10M / year, and decided he should get the same...but Ray does not contribute even CLOSE to what Garnett does for this team.

I really think they Ray's ego sadly just failed to shrink in proportion to his abilities...

I still like Ray as a player and as a person though, I don't think he's a bad guy - think he's just having trouble accepting the fact that he's not the same player he was 5 years ago.  I hope he is happy playing in Miami, but I also hope we beat (not just beat, but CRUSH) them in the playoffs.

[BballTim]

The three years $27 million ...

Pretty much the same contract Jason Kidd signed for Dallas three years ago (three years, $25 million). Similar stage of their careers (Ray a year older). Similar level of effectiveness (above average starter). That contract turned out to be a great bit of business for Dallas.

I don't think Ray was being unreasonable with his contract demands.

  It's not the dollar amount per se, it's telling your current team that if they want to retain your services they have to pay you much more money than you'll be able to get anywhere else. It's one thing to ask for 3/27 and sign for 3/24 or 4/30 or something, it's different if you sign for 3/9.

Exactly, what you're saying Who makes zero sense because he just signed for 3 mill per.

I think Ray Allen was worth somewhere near that figure. He asked for what he felt he was worth (3 years, $27 million) and Danny came back and offered less than half the value of that contract (2 years, $12 million).

That matters too.

I think Danny slighted Ray Allen with his contract offer / response.

  If you look at the contracts (older) players sign they'll generally trade a little money per year for a longer deal. I'd say that 3 years at $9M per year is at least comparable to 2 years at $10M per, which is Ray's previous deal. I don't think that Ray at 37/38/39 is really as good a player as Ray at 35/36, and he also isn't expected to fill as big a role on the team because he's declined as a player.

  But beyond that, it's ridiculous to expect a team to pay almost double what any other team can (and triple what you settle for) to retain your services. The offer that Danny "slighted him with" was still more money per year than any other team would offer him. There's no way to look at a request for $4M a year more than he could get anywhere else as a serious attempt at negotiating.

[crimson_stallion]

Precisely.

[Who]

I thought Danny should have offered Ray Allen more money than the two years $6 million per year. It was too close to the MLE. Too small a difference between Boston's offer and the full MLE he was being offered elsewhere.

Danny should have given him at least a two year $15-16 million type deal (or three years $20 million with sliding scale of pay). Something that is large enough to stop Ray from considering going elsewhere. Something that makes him feel more valued by Boston than he is elsewhere.

Not just a competitive offer that is slightly greater than the alternatives. The guy already had enough issues with being undervalued by Boston's management already. Ray was always going to seriously consider leaving Boston with Danny's smaller contract offer. There just wasn't enough separation there.

[cman88]

it still doesnt have an argument because Ray after demanding 3years/27million$ and a no trade clause went off and signed for 3years/9million$ with no real assurance he wont be traded...

lets be honest Ray had NO intention of re-signing with boston...he just lead them along with his rediculous contract demands

[Who]

I don't understand the "no intention of coming back" angle.

Ray considered coming back for the $12 million Danny offered.

If he didn't, he would have just informed the C's he wasn't interested in re-signing and moved on from the beginning. He was both (1) clearly shopping around to see what else is out there (2) considering Boston's offer -- which was a competitive offer. 

There was a clear interest in coming back. There was some issues too (the trade stuff, a dwindling role in the team, whether he was valued enough by management).

In the end, Danny didn't make him feel valued enough so Ray looked elsewhere and found a better basketball situation (not a better financial situation) for himself.

If Danny had of done a better job of making Ray feel wanted and offered him a bigger deal, maybe Ray would still be here.

[ScottHow]

I thought Danny should have offered Ray Allen more money than the two years $6 million per year. It was too close to the MLE. Too small a difference between Boston's offer and the full MLE he was being offered elsewhere.

Danny should have given him at least a two year $15-16 million type deal (or three years $20 million with sliding scale of pay). Something that is large enough to stop Ray from considering going elsewhere. Something that makes him feel more valued by Boston than he is elsewhere.

Not just a competitive offer that is slightly greater than the alternatives. The guy already had enough issues with being undervalued by Boston's management already. Ray was always going to seriously consider leaving Boston with Danny's smaller contract offer. There just wasn't enough separation there.

I thought the contract Danny offered was a fair deal. Most 37 year old shooting guards, coming off of knee surgery don't get a great offer.

[cman88]

I don't understand the "non intention of coming back" angle.

Ray considered coming back for the $12 million Danny offered.

If he didn't, he would have just informed the C's he wasn't interested in re-signing and moved on from the beginning. He was both (1) clearly shopping around to see what else is out there (2) considering Boston's offer -- which was a competitive offer. 

There was a clear interest in coming back. There was some issues too (the trade stuff, a dwindling role in the team, whether he was valued enough by management).

In the end, Danny didn't make him feel valued enough so Ray looked elsewhere and found a better basketball situation (not a better financial situation) for himself.

he demanded 3years/27million$ and a no-trade clause from the Celtics

signed for 3years/9million$ for the Heat

I doubt there was a huge desire to comeback...he was basically saying "if you grossly overpay me I will come back, but otherwise goodbye"

[crimson_stallion]

I thought Danny should have offered Ray Allen more money than the two years $6 million per year. It was too close to the MLE. Too small a difference between Boston's offer and the full MLE he was being offered elsewhere.

Danny should have given him at least a two year $15-16 million type deal (or three years $20 million with sliding scale of pay). Something that is large enough to stop Ray from considering going elsewhere. Something that makes him feel more valued by Boston than he is elsewhere.

That is way too much money for a one-dimensional 37 year old shooting guard coming off foot surgery.   

I'd have loved to see Ray back, but if it took that type of money to bring him back, then I would unfortunately have to let him go.

Boston showed Ray a LOT more love then they needed to.  No other team in the NBA today would offer a 37 year old shooting guard coming off injury a 2/12M contact with a no-trade clause - not unless that guard's name was Kobe Bryant. 

That contact is a significant risk by Boston.  Were not talking about a 1M contact here - 6M/year is pretty substantial and that kind of money can buy a very solid player or a young guy with a lot of upside, but instead Boston offered it to Allen.  Ray could have never fully recovered from surgery and been largely ineffective, and they still would have had to pay him that money and either waste a roster space, or buy him out and get nothing in return.  The fact that Boston were willing to take that kind of risk on him says a lot about how much they wanted him back.

You might say that Ray was not appreciated because he was 'dangled' at the deadline, but you have to remember that last season was meant to be their last run.  Up to the trade deadline Ainge Boston were barely in a position to make the playoffs, and Ainge was tied between rebuilding or giving it one more push.  This is why Ray wasn't the only guy hung out as trade bait.  It wasn't because they didn't appreciate him, it was just because they didn't know which direction the team would go.

Last year these guys proved they still have what it takes to contend, and so once Ainge decided to keep the core together he actually went after Ray pretty hard. It was cleary they really wanted him to stay.